Why do people hate Obama?

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DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Last edited:

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,683
5,418
136
Why so sad about gas prices? Don't you like the supply and demand side of the market?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Why so sad about gas prices? Don't you like the supply and demand side of the market?

The current gas prices are not being driven as much by supply and demand and they are being driven by oil speculators buying futures.

http://money.howstuffworks.com/oil-speculation-raise-gas-price.htm

Of course. Speculators wouldn't be bidding up the price if they didn't believe future demand would increase. It's part & parcel of the right wing ideal of unregulated free trade in the global economy, of making money through purely financial means rather than the production or provision of anything.

Only a very few get to ride the roller coaster- the rest are just part of the machinery...
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,018
8,054
136
We 'hate' Obama because Bush 'stole' the election in 2000. Because after passing a measure on Iraq, Democrats turned it political and ran against it the following year. Because in 2005 'Bush hates black people' after government bureaucracy delayed military assistance for Katrina. Because in 2008 Bush personally 'broke' the economy.

The political fervor in this country has been on a rising tempo for a while. Neither side belongs together, yet both sides are forced together. This is like a boiling pot with a lid over it. Pressure is rising and someone is going to pop. No single government should rule over so many diverse people. One shoe size does not, in fact, fit 315 million.

We 'hate' Obama because he has a D after his name, end of story.
 
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Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,553
248
106
The political fervor in this country has been on a rising tempo for a while. Neither side belongs together, yet both sides are forced together. This is like a boiling pot with a lid over it. Pressure is rising and someone is going to pop. No single government should rule over so many diverse people. One shoe size does not, in fact, fit 315 million.

We 'hate' Obama because he has a D after his name, end of story.

If you hate the setup of this country so much, I invite you to leave. Let those of us who actually love this country stay and keep if (or take it back to) the way our founding fathers intended.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,018
8,054
136
If you hate the setup of this country so much, I invite you to leave. Let those of us who actually love this country stay and keep if (or take it back to) the way our founding fathers intended.

You're on the right track, now apply the same principles as used in illegal immigration. They are not leaving, neither are conservatives. This is our land.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,553
248
106
You're on the right track, now apply the same principles as used in illegal immigration. They are not leaving, neither are conservatives. This is our land.

That is probably because our government (including democrats and republicans) are not inviting them to leave.

Allowing them to see easily take advantage of welfare, government institutions (hospitals and schools, to name a couple), and having children who automatically become citizens accomplished quite the opposite of that.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
You're on the right track, now apply the same principles as used in illegal immigration. They are not leaving, neither are conservatives. This is our land.

When the Constitution was written, there was no "immigration policy". European immigrants who came here simply declared themselves to be Americans, and they were. Oh, yeh- the "Conservatives" of the time were Royalists who opposed the Revolution, believed in all the same stuff that "Conservatives" believe in today. They just called it something different. Back then, it was the Divine Right of Kings- today, it's the Divine Right of Capital.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,651
50,912
136
We 'hate' Obama because Bush 'stole' the election in 2000. Because after passing a measure on Iraq, Democrats turned it political and ran against it the following year. Because in 2005 'Bush hates black people' after government bureaucracy delayed military assistance for Katrina. Because in 2008 Bush personally 'broke' the economy.

The political fervor in this country has been on a rising tempo for a while. Neither side belongs together, yet both sides are forced together. This is like a boiling pot with a lid over it. Pressure is rising and someone is going to pop. No single government should rule over so many diverse people. One shoe size does not, in fact, fit 315 million.

We 'hate' Obama because he has a D after his name, end of story.

It's amazing to me that you would be so self aware about holding an opinion so obviously retarded.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,143
30,099
146
oil is a global commodity.

to be deluded into thinking that the President of the US is ever responsible for the cost of gasoline is to out oneself as an uninformed, unqualified voter.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,553
248
106
oil is a global commodity.

to be deluded into thinking that the President of the US is ever responsible for the cost of gasoline is to out oneself as an uninformed, unqualified voter.

I will not argue with that point.

What I have a problem with is how Obama attacked Bush about what he claimed were high gas prices at the time he was running for office, but is now saying today's much higher prices are a sign of a strengthening economy. What a load of crap.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Oil prices? heh. All part of the globalized free market economy that Repubs love so dearly, the economy driven by unregulated Wall St speculators-

Chilton estimates that drivers of small cars like Honda Civics are paying an extra $7.30 every time they fill up — and that money is going into the pockets of Wall Street speculators. Drivers of larger vehicles like the Ford Explorer are paying speculators $10.41 when they fill up.

Funny, but I don’t hear Republicans rail against Wall Street speculators. Could this have anything to do with the fact that hedge funds and money managers are bankrolling the GOP as never before?

http://robertreich.org/post/19353120672

He forgot to mention that the oil & gas industry also benefits hugely from high prices, and that they're the driving force behind Repubs in Congress...
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
cyber, you are still pissed off that we offed an american citizen in the middle east who was a member of Al-Q?

No, I think he had it coming. I never was upset he died. I still think it sets a dangerous precident, though. All the government needs to do to kill you now is show you were part of some terrorist organization and it means you no longer have constitutional protections.

Had he died on a battlefield or in a war zone (anywhere in Afghanistan, for example) or during some attack, no problem. They guy was not, though.

The world is better off with the guy all blown up, but the average American is a little less safe now.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Because in 2005 'Bush hates black people' after government bureaucracy delayed military assistance for Katrina.

Interesting aside: Bush was legally not allowed to send in troops to help because the Governor of that state did not bother to actually ask for them. All that was needed was the governor calling up the feds and saying "please send in federal troops to assist us, I will send this in writing as soon as I can" and the troops would have been on their way.

But the governor specifically said to only send money for cleanup efforts. Bush, therefor, could not do anything more.

The full fault for the slow response lies directly on that governor.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,079
136
Yup, I hate Bush but that was one time he got a raw deal. He wanted to do the right thing and instead got labeled an incompetent, racist asshole.

Of course, the guy WAS an incompetent, racist asshole. But its not fair to judge him for Katrina.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Interesting aside: Bush was legally not allowed to send in troops to help because the Governor of that state did not bother to actually ask for them. All that was needed was the governor calling up the feds and saying "please send in federal troops to assist us, I will send this in writing as soon as I can" and the troops would have been on their way.

But the governor specifically said to only send money for cleanup efforts. Bush, therefor, could not do anything more.

The full fault for the slow response lies directly on that governor.

Horribly obfuscational. I'm sure there was lots of communication between Louisiana & the Feds after Katrina. If the Governor failed to ask, it certainly wasn't out of line for Bush Admin officials to point out that he needed to do so for troops to arrive. Apparently they didn't, and they knew more about it than the Governor, who was hobbled by the fact that the Louisiana National Guard was on deployment in Iraq, iirc.

All it would have taken was one phone call from Dubya- "Governor, ask for federal troops & you'll get them." A conversation that apparently never happened. That's leadership, huh?

You're just running a variant of "blame the victim" in defense of the Bush Admin.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,553
248
106
On August 27, 2005, Governor Blanco, speaking about Hurricane Katrina, told the media in Jefferson Parish, "I believe we are prepared. That's the one thing that I've always been able to brag about." Later that day she issued a request for federal assistance and USD $9 million in aid to President George W. Bush, which stated, "...I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster..... On September 1, 2005, with reports of looting and lawlessness escalating, Governor Blanco announced she was sending 300 Arkansas National Guardsmen to supplement the New Orleans Police Department, saying, "These troops are fresh back from Iraq. They are well-trained, experienced, battle-tested and under my orders to restore order in the streets..... President Bush, during a visit to Louisiana September 2, 2005,five days after the storm, offered to federalize the Louisiana National Guard to simplify the command structure. The Governor declined, because the Guard would then become part of the federal military forces and therefore lose much-needed policing powers. The President subsequently continued to press the offer so Governor Blanco rejected it in writing..... CNN and Fox News reported the Louisiana Homeland Security Department (which operates under the authority of Governor Blanco) refused to allow the American Red Cross to enter the city of New Orleans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Blanco

There was lots of communication, and most of it was from a proud governor who did her best to keep the federal government out of her state.

President Bush accepted a good bit of blame for the way Katrina was handled (he chose to) but that doesn't mean he deserved it.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Blanco

There was lots of communication, and most of it was from a proud governor who did her best to keep the federal government out of her state.

President Bush accepted a good bit of blame for the way Katrina was handled (he chose to) but that doesn't mean he deserved it.

Heh. Haley Barbour rejected the same request-

Shortly before midnight on Friday, September 2, the Bush administration sent Governor Blanco a request to take over command of law enforcement under the Insurrection Act (one of the exceptions to the Posse Comitatus Act), but this request was rejected by Blanco.[59] Governor Haley Barbour of Mississippi also rejected a similar request.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

The whole thing was a clusterfuck, top to bottom, with federal efforts sometimes hindering more than helping.

Which really is unrelated to the topic at hand, wherein Jaskalas offered what i said earlier, just in a different way-

We 'hate' Obama because he has a D after his name, end of story.

He, of course, offered a lot of paranoia & raving to go along with it, which has been par for the course among the right wing since the days of Smokin' Joe McCarthy. Reference my post about right wing authoritarianism, and about identity politics.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Horribly obfuscational. I'm sure there was lots of communication between Louisiana & the Feds after Katrina. If the Governor failed to ask, it certainly wasn't out of line for Bush Admin officials to point out that he needed to do so for troops to arrive. Apparently they didn't, and they knew more about it than the Governor, who was hobbled by the fact that the Louisiana National Guard was on deployment in Iraq, iirc.

All it would have taken was one phone call from Dubya- "Governor, ask for federal troops & you'll get them." A conversation that apparently never happened. That's leadership, huh?

You're just running a variant of "blame the victim" in defense of the Bush Admin.

The use of federal troops in the US is clearly defined. Just because the smart thing to do was to violate the law and send in the troops does not mean the law could simply be violated.

Bush followed the law, as he is required to do. You are mad because he did not break the law, thereby opening himself up to impeachment. The law is what it is, and it is there for very good reasons.

Until the fed gov was explicitly told to send in troops, they could not...and only the state governor (or the Lt Gov in certain circumstances) could make the request...they could not be sent.

You are free to pretend this is not true so you can keep the fires of hate burning, though. No law against that.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
The whole thing was a clusterfuck, top to bottom, with federal efforts sometimes hindering more than helping.

So now you are agreeing with me that the feds could not simply send in the troops? Good, I am glad to see you can learn. No thanks are needed, though, providing free learning to you is all the thanks I need.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The use of federal troops in the US is clearly defined. Just because the smart thing to do was to violate the law and send in the troops does not mean the law could simply be violated.

Bush followed the law, as he is required to do. You are mad because he did not break the law, thereby opening himself up to impeachment. The law is what it is, and it is there for very good reasons.

Until the fed gov was explicitly told to send in troops, they could not...and only the state governor (or the Lt Gov in certain circumstances) could make the request...they could not be sent.

You are free to pretend this is not true so you can keep the fires of hate burning, though. No law against that.

So now you are agreeing with me that the feds could not simply send in the troops? Good, I am glad to see you can learn. No thanks are needed, though, providing free learning to you is all the thanks I need.

Learn? Actually, I have learned something from this thread, namely that the use of federal & national guard troops isn't well defined at all. Governors can request federal troops take over all of law enforcement in their state under the insurrection act, except that there was no insurrection, (both Blanco and Barbour rejected this option) through a mechanism involving the National Guard Bureau, (which Blanco used) and through yet another National Guard agreement between the states that I don't even know the name of... there may be others, as well.

Governor Kathleen Blanco (D) requested, via a letter to the National Guard Bureau on August 30, additional National Guard troops from other states to supplement the Louisiana National Guard, but approval did not occur until September 1.[57] New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson had offered assistance to Blanco two days before the storm hit, but could not send his troops until approval came from the National Guard Bureau.[57] Blanco later acknowledged that she should have called for more troops sooner,[58] and that she should have activated a compact with other states that would have allowed her to bypass the requirement to route the request through the National Guard Bureau.[citation needed]

Some 40% of Louisiana's National Guard was deployed to Iraq at the time,[57] and critics claim that use of the National Guard to boost troop numbers in Iraq left them unready to handle disasters at home.[7]

From the previously posted Wiki piece.

It's not like Governors receive instruction sheets to cover the possibilities, or that either one of us understood completely at the beginning of this conversation, either. What I objected to was your attempt to blame the victims & whitewash the Bush Admin, whose efforts really were incredibly inept. FEMA exists because it's expected that state & local govts will be overwhelmed in a catastrophe such as Katrina, and FEMA is expected to be able to bring greater resources & leadership to bear on such situations, but that's not what happened.

Its not like some of New Orleans' neighboring communities extended much of a helping hand, either-

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/10/national/nationalspecial/10emt.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print

All of which is a deliberate duh-version from the phenomenon of right wing nuttiness expressed as Obama hate. It really is a function of nuttiness, of identity politics and blind followership of trusted figures like the fave talk show host on Fox. Mix that in with the need for denial wrt the actual accomplishments of their team, and, well, all that comes out is incomprehensible rage & gibberish.

If Repub ideology is so peachy, why was it necessary to completely reverse course wrt self regulated banking, bail out the perps? Why did we invade Iraq, anyway, other than in pursuit of Neocon delusions of world hegemony? Why did the national debt double during Dubya's tenure?

When so-called "conservatives" are willing to address these questions, they'll come up with the answers they need to see Obama through a more realistic lens, and they'll have a much better chance of understanding their own rage & disappointment, directing it against the people who deceived them rather than the strawman Obama they've been led to despise.
 
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