all of the above you just mentioned were long standing traditions before multiculturlism(sic) became the new battlecry.
Originally posted by: HermDogg
Originally posted by: daniel49
Many non believers feel threatened by christians becoming politically active.
But any person in any walk of life desires that thier family. community, country reflects the values that they believe in.
And a christian working towards that end is no different then an atheist working for the country to reflect his values.
I would say Christians in general believe very strongly in the seperation of church and state. But they just don't buy off on the way that the courts have expanded that to include everything.
ie...a nativity scene on city property
..... a hs valedictorian that can't mention God in her speech of whats helped her in life
.....we can't even say christmas vacation at school now its winter break, we can't have a christmas program its a winter program where we watch our kids sing now, and Lord help us if they sing a traditional religious holiday song.
..... and this nonsense goes on and on and on of traditions they have been in place for 200 years all of a sudden becoming church and state issues.
these are perversions of what seperation of church and state was meant to be.
And the wholesale casteration of traditions that have helped our country become what it is.
Many non-Christians are frightened by Christians becoming poltiically active because the Christians believe that everyone should not only tolerate them, but allow them to participate in religious ceremonies. When a Chrsitmas play is performed in a public school, it can be offensive, say to Jehovah's Witnesses. There may be non-Christians that go to that school. What's wrong with calling it "Holiday Break" or "Winter Break"? The damage would come if the non-Christian child either has to a) not participate or b) participate in something he doesn't believe in. How is that worse than your child not being able to sing about Jesus in school?
A similar argument can be made for nativity scenes. Why should your religion be the only one who's allowed to display their beliefs on the front lawn? Either you have symbols for every religion, or none.
And please name one tradition that has been "casterated" (sic) that helped our country become what it is.
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Yeah a place where you can speak your mind about religion and not worry about being tried as a Heretic.Originally posted by: daniel49
its the far left agenda tolerence for everything except christianity.
Its just sad to watch some of these people spew all the hate and bitterness out.
Most christian people I know would be the first ones to give you a hand when you need it, but some feel so threatened by it.
To deny that christians do things they shouldn't at times of course would be ridiculous.
they're just men and women too, and people sometimes do stupid and wrong things.
The church is filled with sinners, its not a place you come too because you have attained perfection. Its hopefully a place you learn to become more like Jesus.
Although I have met people who attended church all thier life and have never really met God. Church became a duty or a social function to them. During the middle ages The church was power and became corrupt as men who sought power more then God usurped authority. And this is always still a danger of that.
Many non believers feel threatened by christians becoming politically active.
But any person in any walk of life desires that thier family. community, country reflects the values that they believe in.
And a christian working towards that end is no different then an atheist working for the country to reflect his values.
I would say Christians in general believe very strongly in the seperation of church and state. But they just don't buy off on the way that the courts have expanded that to include everything.
ie...a nativity scene on city property
..... a hs valedictorian that can't mention God in her speech of whats helped her in life
.....we can't even say christmas vacation at school now its winter break, we can't have a christmas program its a winter program where we watch our kids sing now, and Lord help us if they sing a traditional religious holiday song.
..... and this nonsense goes on and on and on of traditions they have been in place for 200 years all of a sudden becoming church and state issues.
these are perversions of what seperation of church and state was meant to be.
And the wholesale casteration of traditions that have helped our country become what it is.
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: HermDogg
Originally posted by: daniel49
Many non believers feel threatened by christians becoming politically active.
But any person in any walk of life desires that thier family. community, country reflects the values that they believe in.
And a christian working towards that end is no different then an atheist working for the country to reflect his values.
I would say Christians in general believe very strongly in the seperation of church and state. But they just don't buy off on the way that the courts have expanded that to include everything.
ie...a nativity scene on city property
..... a hs valedictorian that can't mention God in her speech of whats helped her in life
.....we can't even say christmas vacation at school now its winter break, we can't have a christmas program its a winter program where we watch our kids sing now, and Lord help us if they sing a traditional religious holiday song.
..... and this nonsense goes on and on and on of traditions they have been in place for 200 years all of a sudden becoming church and state issues.
these are perversions of what seperation of church and state was meant to be.
And the wholesale casteration of traditions that have helped our country become what it is.
Many non-Christians are frightened by Christians becoming poltiically active because the Christians believe that everyone should not only tolerate them, but allow them to participate in religious ceremonies. When a Chrsitmas play is performed in a public school, it can be offensive, say to Jehovah's Witnesses. There may be non-Christians that go to that school. What's wrong with calling it "Holiday Break" or "Winter Break"? The damage would come if the non-Christian child either has to a) not participate or b) participate in something he doesn't believe in. How is that worse than your child not being able to sing about Jesus in school?
A similar argument can be made for nativity scenes. Why should your religion be the only one who's allowed to display their beliefs on the front lawn? Either you have symbols for every religion, or none.
And please name one tradition that has been "casterated" (sic) that helped our country become what it is.
all of the above you just mentioned were long standing traditions before multiculturlism(sic) became the new battlecry.
Originally posted by: HermDogg
Originally posted by: daniel49
Many non believers feel threatened by christians becoming politically active.
But any person in any walk of life desires that thier family. community, country reflects the values that they believe in.
And a christian working towards that end is no different then an atheist working for the country to reflect his values.
I would say Christians in general believe very strongly in the seperation of church and state. But they just don't buy off on the way that the courts have expanded that to include everything.
ie...a nativity scene on city property
..... a hs valedictorian that can't mention God in her speech of whats helped her in life
.....we can't even say christmas vacation at school now its winter break, we can't have a christmas program its a winter program where we watch our kids sing now, and Lord help us if they sing a traditional religious holiday song.
..... and this nonsense goes on and on and on of traditions they have been in place for 200 years all of a sudden becoming church and state issues.
these are perversions of what seperation of church and state was meant to be.
And the wholesale casteration of traditions that have helped our country become what it is.
Many non-Christians are frightened by Christians becoming poltiically active because the Christians believe that everyone should not only tolerate them, but allow them to participate in religious ceremonies. When a Chrsitmas play is performed in a public school, it can be offensive, say to Jehovah's Witnesses. There may be non-Christians that go to that school. What's wrong with calling it "Holiday Break" or "Winter Break"? The damage would come if the non-Christian child either has to a) not participate or b) participate in something he doesn't believe in. How is that worse than your child not being able to sing about Jesus in school?
A similar argument can be made for nativity scenes. Why should your religion be the only one who's allowed to display their beliefs on the front lawn? Either you have symbols for every religion, or none.
And please name one tradition that has been "casterated" (sic) that helped our country become what it is.
Originally posted by: HermDogg
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: HermDogg
Originally posted by: daniel49
Many non believers feel threatened by christians becoming politically active.
But any person in any walk of life desires that thier family. community, country reflects the values that they believe in.
And a christian working towards that end is no different then an atheist working for the country to reflect his values.
I would say Christians in general believe very strongly in the seperation of church and state. But they just don't buy off on the way that the courts have expanded that to include everything.
ie...a nativity scene on city property
..... a hs valedictorian that can't mention God in her speech of whats helped her in life
.....we can't even say christmas vacation at school now its winter break, we can't have a christmas program its a winter program where we watch our kids sing now, and Lord help us if they sing a traditional religious holiday song.
..... and this nonsense goes on and on and on of traditions they have been in place for 200 years all of a sudden becoming church and state issues.
these are perversions of what seperation of church and state was meant to be.
And the wholesale casteration of traditions that have helped our country become what it is.
Many non-Christians are frightened by Christians becoming poltiically active because the Christians believe that everyone should not only tolerate them, but allow them to participate in religious ceremonies. When a Chrsitmas play is performed in a public school, it can be offensive, say to Jehovah's Witnesses. There may be non-Christians that go to that school. What's wrong with calling it "Holiday Break" or "Winter Break"? The damage would come if the non-Christian child either has to a) not participate or b) participate in something he doesn't believe in. How is that worse than your child not being able to sing about Jesus in school?
A similar argument can be made for nativity scenes. Why should your religion be the only one who's allowed to display their beliefs on the front lawn? Either you have symbols for every religion, or none.
And please name one tradition that has been "casterated" (sic) that helped our country become what it is.
all of the above you just mentioned were long standing traditions before multiculturlism(sic) became the new battlecry.
Exactly which of the above HELPED OUR COUNTRY BECOME WHAT IT IS (caps so you can see the important part). Unless you're referring only to the things themselves as what "it" is, these are trivial.
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: HermDogg
Originally posted by: daniel49
Many non believers feel threatened by christians becoming politically active.
But any person in any walk of life desires that thier family. community, country reflects the values that they believe in.
And a christian working towards that end is no different then an atheist working for the country to reflect his values.
I would say Christians in general believe very strongly in the seperation of church and state. But they just don't buy off on the way that the courts have expanded that to include everything.
ie...a nativity scene on city property
..... a hs valedictorian that can't mention God in her speech of whats helped her in life
.....we can't even say christmas vacation at school now its winter break, we can't have a christmas program its a winter program where we watch our kids sing now, and Lord help us if they sing a traditional religious holiday song.
..... and this nonsense goes on and on and on of traditions they have been in place for 200 years all of a sudden becoming church and state issues.
these are perversions of what seperation of church and state was meant to be.
And the wholesale casteration of traditions that have helped our country become what it is.
Many non-Christians are frightened by Christians becoming poltiically active because the Christians believe that everyone should not only tolerate them, but allow them to participate in religious ceremonies. When a Chrsitmas play is performed in a public school, it can be offensive, say to Jehovah's Witnesses. There may be non-Christians that go to that school. What's wrong with calling it "Holiday Break" or "Winter Break"? The damage would come if the non-Christian child either has to a) not participate or b) participate in something he doesn't believe in. How is that worse than your child not being able to sing about Jesus in school?
A similar argument can be made for nativity scenes. Why should your religion be the only one who's allowed to display their beliefs on the front lawn? Either you have symbols for every religion, or none.
And please name one tradition that has been "casterated" (sic) that helped our country become what it is.
how is it better?
As I recall when I went to school occasionally A jw student would ask not to participate maybe one or two students once a year.
That was the only time I ever recalled it being an issue to anybody.
edit: of course they don't celebrate any holiday so if your going to let them be your argument you better take every holiday out of school.
Originally posted by: HermDogg
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: HermDogg
Originally posted by: daniel49
Many non believers feel threatened by christians becoming politically active.
But any person in any walk of life desires that thier family. community, country reflects the values that they believe in.
And a christian working towards that end is no different then an atheist working for the country to reflect his values.
I would say Christians in general believe very strongly in the seperation of church and state. But they just don't buy off on the way that the courts have expanded that to include everything.
ie...a nativity scene on city property
..... a hs valedictorian that can't mention God in her speech of whats helped her in life
.....we can't even say christmas vacation at school now its winter break, we can't have a christmas program its a winter program where we watch our kids sing now, and Lord help us if they sing a traditional religious holiday song.
..... and this nonsense goes on and on and on of traditions they have been in place for 200 years all of a sudden becoming church and state issues.
these are perversions of what seperation of church and state was meant to be.
And the wholesale casteration of traditions that have helped our country become what it is.
Many non-Christians are frightened by Christians becoming poltiically active because the Christians believe that everyone should not only tolerate them, but allow them to participate in religious ceremonies. When a Chrsitmas play is performed in a public school, it can be offensive, say to Jehovah's Witnesses. There may be non-Christians that go to that school. What's wrong with calling it "Holiday Break" or "Winter Break"? The damage would come if the non-Christian child either has to a) not participate or b) participate in something he doesn't believe in. How is that worse than your child not being able to sing about Jesus in school?
A similar argument can be made for nativity scenes. Why should your religion be the only one who's allowed to display their beliefs on the front lawn? Either you have symbols for every religion, or none.
And please name one tradition that has been "casterated" (sic) that helped our country become what it is.
how is it better?
As I recall when I went to school occasionally A jw student would ask not to participate maybe one or two students once a year.
That was the only time I ever recalled it being an issue to anybody.
edit: of course they don't celebrate any holiday so if your going to let them be your argument you better take every holiday out of school.
It's better because your child loses absolutely nothing by not being able to sing about Jesus in school. They can still do it in church, and they'll sing non-religious holiday songs in school. In the other case, your child sings religious holidays in schools, while those who don't believe are left out.
What is pagan? Christianity itself is the merger of the ancient religions of Persian Mithra, Roman Sol Invictus, and Greek Gnosticism, while borrowing heavily from Judaism. So these holidays originate from those religions in addition to various local religions that were converted along the way (i.e. the Celtic Samhain, which became Halloween and All Saints Day).Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Am I reading this right? Someone's complaining about the "de-Christianizing" of various holidays, when in reality those very same holidays were pagan in origin, corrupted by the early Catholic Church in order to speed adoption to Christianity in the first place?
Originally posted by: Vic
What is pagan? Christianity itself is the merger of the ancient religions of Persian Mithra, Roman Sol Invictus, and Greek Gnosticism, while borrowing heavily from Judaism. So these holidays originate from those religions in addition to various local religions that were converted along the way (i.e. the Celtic Samhain, which became Halloween and All Saints Day).Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Am I reading this right? Someone's complaining about the "de-Christianizing" of various holidays, when in reality those very same holidays were pagan in origin, corrupted by the early Catholic Church in order to speed adoption to Christianity in the first place?
Originally posted by: Vic
He posted [referring to me and correcty assuming I'm male], and I quote, "You _cannot_ be a scientist and believe in the bible for example - there are too many direct contradictions."
This is an understandable belief for those who have ZERO understanding of ancient literature. However, for those of us who do, we understand that it was all written in a type of code by people who had a different viewpoint of the world that we do today, and to interpret it literally from a modern worldview would be to entirely miss the point. As the simplest example I can think of off the top of my head (that is not Biblical, but which IMO demonstrates the point well), the reference to King Arthur pulling the sword from the stone was never meant to be taken literally, but meant that he had skills as a blacksmith, which in ancient times was cutting edge technology that would seem like magic to primitive peoples.
Get it?
Originally posted by: MichaelD
Originally posted by: kogase
People, especially Americans, hate anyone who tries to tell them what to do, or tells them they know what's best for them. Christians are very loud on this front, whether they are doing door-to-door proselytising or wide-scale political activism. Of course many people who say they hate Christians are making major generalizations. Episcopalians, for example, are very different from Southern Baptists.
He said it. I don't hate Christians; I hate anyone of any religious background, race, creed, color, sexual orientation, hamburger preference that tries to tell me what I should do and how I should do it and how I'm SO not as good as them because I do or don't (insert action, practice or methodology here).
As I love to tell soapboxing religious people "Jesus may love you...but everyone else thinks you're an asshole."
They like that a lot.
who does?Originally posted by: ballmode
I don't like people who push things upon others
Originally posted by: foghorn67
Originally posted by: Vic
[What is pagan? Christianity itself is the merger of the ancient religions of Persian Mithra, Roman Sol Invictus, and Greek Gnosticism, while borrowing heavily from Judaism. So these holidays originate from those religions in addition to various local religions that were converted along the way (i.e. the Celtic Samhain, which became Halloween and All Saints Day).
generalizing aren't we?
Originally posted by: Vic
Okay, just for sh!ts and giggles, name one.Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: Babbles
Are you a scientist
Well I have a science degree, but I'm not employed in research. I think I qualify.
and do you apply this so called "scientific method" to your everyday life and additionally judge other people based on it?
I would like to think my actions are based on logic, yes.
I'll tell you this. I consider myself a scientist; been doing analytical/research chemistry for over seven years now. Most of the people I have worked with at various laboratories have been people with one religious belief or another.
I find it interesting in that most scientists have no problem reconciling their personal religion along with their professional scientific practices.
In my experience most scientists who identify with a certain religeous group do not really _believe_ in the doctrine. They generally go along to church for social reasons and because that's what their parents did, and what they've always done.
Admittedly some really do believe, bu I think those people are in denial. You _cannot_ be a scientist and believe in the bible for example - there are too many direct contradictions.
Originally posted by: Biggerhammer
Hating Christians seems to be the trendy thing to do these days.
not necessary unless you are trying to be un-Christian.Originally posted by: forrestroche
Originally posted by: Biggerhammer
Hating Christians seems to be the trendy thing to do these days.
Not trendy, just necesary.
The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view. Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:
Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will exceed your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that in the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins.