Why do people who commit suicide seem like they have some sort of inside info that we don't know?

[Red Squirrel]

my boss who's 10 year old son's friend committed suicide..he was 11...eleven!! wtf

It's crazy how depression, anxiety and other mental issues seems to start so young now. One of my nephews suffers from it, it's just sad to go through that at such a young age.

 

[Muse]

I am pretty sure the unborn child have zero part in that conversation to end its life. When I said end another's life I was talking about abortion, not a terminally ill person. There are just as many options to a mother to be as there are to the person contemplating ending it all.

Aha, so you're a right to lifer? Smoked out.

Your statements there confirm the obvious, i.e. that you have little incite into human nature.

 

[Muse]

Care to share? I actually had a similar experience but with the exact opposite effect. I was one who believed that suicide was a selfish thing to do. Until I actually talked with people who either went on to attempt or commit to taking their own life.

Share what? I told you the whole story.

Obviously, suicide is a complicated issue. One blanket statement does not begin to do it justice. On the one hand, a person has the "right to do it," but a lot of the time it would be a mistake. To say it's always a mistake is highly presumptuous, pompous and heavy handed controlling attitude. Say you are in agony and it's only going to get 10x worse until you are dead... is it OK to kill yourself? I would not say it is not OK. If you are depressed, angry with yourself, see no way out of the conundrum you see for yourself that is actually arguably just a transitory state that you can overcome/outgrow, and likely will get over if you give it some time? Well, then I see it differently. See Romeo and Juliet.

 

[SNC]

Aha, so you're a right to lifer? Smoked out.

Your statements there confirm the obvious, i.e. that you have little incite into human nature.

So if I I believe life begins at some point before birth I'm a right to lifer? What a simplest way to look at things. I was merely making a comparison between the taking of one and the giving up of another. Why is it seen as acceptable for one and not the other? You seem to be pro choice, why is it you do not give a person born the same right as you give the one carrying an unborn one?

I try not to incite humans but some are just to hung up on their own beliefs and unwilling to look at another side, that my words to them do just that. As for insight into human nature, I have lived through and with some of the best and worst things and people. I have talked with people who have taken their own lives, and ones who have tried and failed. I would not wish my upbringing on anyone.

 

[SNC]

Share what? I told you the whole story.

Obviously, suicide is a complicated issue. One blanket statement does not begin to do it justice. On the one hand, a person has the "right to do it," but a lot of the time it would be a mistake. To say it's always a mistake is highly presumptuous, pompous and heavy handed controlling attitude. Say you are in agony and it's only going to get 10x worse until you are dead... is it OK to kill yourself? I would not say it is not OK. If you are depressed, angry with yourself, see no way out of the conundrum you see for yourself that is actually arguably just a transitory state that you can overcome/outgrow, and likely will get over if you give it some time? Well, then I see it differently. See Romeo and Juliet.

My roommate's friend said something that stuck with me.

You never included what she said, just that it changed your thinking. So not quite the whole story.

 

[William Gaatjes]

The strangest thing is that in a social setting, absolute freedom does not exist. Everybody voluntarily gives up some of their freedom as to have more freedom and easy life for the group as a whole.
There will always be social boundaries and rules everybody has to live by. And of course social control. It all depends on how much is too much and how little is too little ?
Normally social control is like a wave pattern that moves up and down. From too tight social control to times of more relaxed approaches and when the excess start to happen, Social control tightens again.
And after, people get more relaxed again. When done right it is a self regulating system.

 

[William Gaatjes]

It's crazy how depression, anxiety and other mental issues seems to start so young now. One of my nephews suffers from it, it's just sad to go through that at such a young age.

I wonder if that has to do with the increased pressure to act like a grown up, meaning not mentally grown up but more like spending, consuming, the appearance. Pressure from peers. Not fitting in. Not being able to buy the most expensive stuff. Bullying by using social media.
Kids used to be kids, now they have to wear Prada or they do not fit in. It is a bit exaggerated, but that is what appears to me. It was like that also long ago. But now the social media speed up the process.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I am pretty sure the unborn child have zero part in that conversation to end its life. When I said end another's life I was talking about abortion, not a terminally ill person. There are just as many options to a mother to be as there are to the person contemplating ending it all.

Well, abortion is something that should not be taken lightly.

I still can get angry about a particular anti abortion group because the same people who preach against abortion are also often against sexual education of youngsters and providing free condoms. Yet they totally ignore human nature and blame everybody and the devil.

With proper sexual education and free condoms, the amount of unwanted children would decrease. And then also the amount of abortions because of unwanted pregnancies would decrease.
Abortion is an option when for example the child is not viable or will have a dibilating disease and will only live for a few months or years. I once had seen an English documentary about the young child that had wild bone growth throughout his body. That meant that everywhere in his soft tissue, these needle like bone structures formed and he was in so much pain. That was a very rare genetic disorder.
I prefer science and genetic alteration to solve such issues. But if it cannot be done, would you knowingly let your still developing fetus develop into a baby that cries non stop from the agonizing pain ? I could not. Even if it would mean a part of me would die as well.

If some young girl or woman has been raped over and over again and she has become pregnant from the rapist, i can fully understand if she desperately wants an abortion.
As i wrote before, it is not black and white.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I wonder if that has to do with the increased pressure to act like a grown up, meaning not mentally grown up but more like spending, consuming, the appearance. Pressure from peers. Not fitting in. Not being able to buy the most expensive stuff. Bullying by using social media.
Kids used to be kids, now they have to wear Prada or they do not fit in. It is a bit exaggerated, but that is what appears to me. It was like that also long ago. But now the social media speed up the process.

Yeah I wonder if it's that too. That and they are making school harder and harder, I know myself I found school to be rather stressful due to the constant hard balls thrown at you, tests, projects, exams etc. Now days it's probably even worse. They just ask too much of them and they have less time to be kids. Pretty much start working hard right away in life.

 

[Muse]

You never included what she said, just that it changed your thinking. So not quite the whole story.

Dude, it was 1973, I did not have a recorder. It was a one liner, use your imagination. It's there, you need to use it a lot more than your have been.

 

[SNC]

Dude, it was 1973, I did not have a recorder. It was a one liner, use your imagination. It's there, you need to use it a lot more than your have been.

So you want me to make up something that affected you half a fucking decade ago? I prefer to live in the real world and facts. If your OK basing your beliefs on guesswork or imagination you are free.

 

[brianmanahan]

Dude, it was 1973, I did not have a recorder. It was a one liner, use your imagination.

So you want me to make up something that affected you half a f***ing decade ago?

thats gotta be the longest decade of all time

 

[SNC]

thats gotta be the longest decade of all time

Decade, century, ehh. I really flubbed that one didn't I?

 

[Muse]

So you want me to make up something that affected you half a fucking decade ago? I prefer to live in the real world and facts. If your OK basing your beliefs on guesswork or imagination you are free.

I believe my post was reasonably self-explanatory, get off your high horse and be human.

 

[SNC]

I believe my post was reasonably self-explanatory, get off your high horse and be human.

You said that someone once told you something that changed the way you thought about something, when asked what that was you told me to to use my imagination and guess what it might have been. You could have just said that you didn't remember what it was when asked. But you made it sound like you were about to lay some serious shit on us to change my mind. Why even mention it if you were going to leave it at 'make up what you want'? Your post was the exact opposite of self-explanatory, literally the exact opposite. I fear for the world we live in.

 

[Muse]

You said that someone once told you something that changed the way you thought about something, when asked what that was you told me to to use my imagination and guess what it might have been. You could have just said that you didn't remember what it was when asked. But you made it sound like you were about to lay some serious shit on us to change my mind. Why even mention it if you were going to leave it at 'make up what you want'? Your post was the exact opposite of self-explanatory, literally the exact opposite. I fear for the world we live in.

I'll paraphrase what she said, if it will make you happy:

"I don't want to deny your right to suicide."

It may have been her exact words. She said it with a smile and I could tell she knew I wasn't on the cusp of suicide or anything similar, she was just making light of my even thinking about the notion of suicide in my world view. In this way I think she was essentially dismissing Albert Camus's notion (or at least the "seriousness" of it) that the only meaningful philosophical question is whether or not to kill yourself. I think she did that very admirably and convincingly. It was an aha moment. How does one convey an aha moment? They are the ultimate personal experience. Some people have them, some don't. Conveying them is difficult if not impossible. A zen master's job is inducing them (not conveying them).

 

[richaron]

You said that someone once told you something that changed the way you thought about something, when asked what that was you told me to to use my imagination and guess what it might have been. You could have just said that you didn't remember what it was when asked. But you made it sound like you were about to lay some serious shit on us to change my mind. Why even mention it if you were going to leave it at 'make up what you want'? Your post was the exact opposite of self-explanatory, literally the exact opposite. I fear for the world we live in.

Mate you've obviously missed the point. The specifics of that conversation are not relevant.

The point the poster was trying to make was that a simple statement or argument was able to open their mind and change their thinking. Maybe it's not clear but your thinking appears to go against many in this thread. So in a way perhaps none of us know exactly what to say which might be the key to fit your closed thinking and open it up.

But I think it's both very personal and useless to ask someone (not to mention ask many times) what exact statement changed their mind about suicide. At the very least it appears completely unlikely to change your thinking, and at the worst it's both invasive and useless. Maybe they don't remember the exact wording, maybe the exact wording won't have the same impact on you. It doesn't matter.

At this point I think you know it's obvious you've come across as a closed minded douche in this thread. So you are hounding this dude for a statement which you can then create a strawman argument over and pretend you have a something valid to say.

 

[SNC]

Mate you've obviously missed the point. The specifics of that conversation are not relevant.

The point the poster was trying to make was that a simple statement or argument was able to open their mind and change their thinking. Maybe it's not clear but your thinking appears to go against many in this thread. So in a way perhaps none of us know exactly what to say which might be the key to fit your closed thinking and open it up.

But I think it's both very personal and useless to ask someone (not to mention ask many times) what exact statement changed their mind about suicide. At the very least it appears completely unlikely to change your thinking, and at the worst it's both invasive and useless. Maybe they don't remember the exact wording, maybe the exact wording won't have the same impact on you. It doesn't matter.

At this point I think you know it's obvious you've come across as a closed minded douche in this thread. So you are hounding this dude for a statement which you can then create a strawman argument over and pretend you have a something valid to say.

Then fucking word in in a way that does not lead one to believe your gonna enlighten the rest of us with those words of wisdom. I guess I should have listened to my roommate when he said that thing that shocked the fuck out of me in 1998 when we were in prison together. I guess it's too late now.