Why do TV's make such bad monitors?

[Coup27]

I just built a gaming PC for somebody using a Haswell i5 and a HD7770. I used a monitor when I set it up and during the 3 days I had it I never any issues. Since giving it to the person they've reported problems getting output on their screen. I went over today and they are using a cheap 1080p TV. The iGPU works fine on the TV (although picture quality is crap), but the dGPU doesn't work reliably on the TV and when it does the picture is crap, despite the TV being 1080p. The monitor I've been using is 23" and the TV connected to the PC is 26". I know this will affect PPI but the quality between the two accounts for much more than the PPI difference.

I brought the offending HD7770 back with me to run my own tests on it and connected it into my Sandy Bridge PC and it works perfectly on my monitor. With the HD7770 still installed I then connected my PC into my Panasonic 1080p HD TV and the display when in the BIOS was split into 4 segments. In Windows, it would not fill the screen properly and letterboxed it top and bottom no matter what setting I changed regarding aspect etc..

So my question is if a TV and monitor are the same screen size and resolution, why do TV's not display the output correctly and why is the image quality so bad? Do TV's just not work as monitors and as there a reason for this?

 

[Black Octagon]

Could be lots of things causing that actually, especially internal processing things enabled from the tv side. Can you check whether overscan is enabled on the tv? If so, disable it.

Also, what connector type are you using? HDMI?

 

[toyota]

I wonder if most issues are HDMI related. I have never even had a pc monitor much less TV work 100% correctly over HDMI on any system.

 

[Coup27]

Could be lots of things causing that actually, especially internal processing things enabled from the tv side. Can you check whether overscan is enabled on the tv? If so, disable it.

Also, what connector type are you using? HDMI?

I have no idea whether overscan is enabled and I am unable to check this at the moment, although I could reconnect my PC up to my TV and check for overscan.

Yes, HDMI when connected to either TV and DVI when connected to my monitor. Although I did try a DVI>HDMI cable plugged into the clients TV and the problems were the same as when it was connected with HDMI.

 

[Durvelle27]

I've been using my TV as a monitor for the past 2 years with no problems

 

[tential]

I had issues, but it worked soon. My issues were due to old games not giving the right refresh rates though.

 

[Yuriman]

Generally you must turn scaling off at the tv and set overscan to 0% in Catalyst Control Center.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Used to game on a 37'' 1080p screen,the experience wasn't to terrible but i had hell getting hdmi to work both with video and audio together,had to go vga and use my regular desktop speakers to make it work and it wasn't bad but the size of it became a issue for my eyes,went to using a 17'' 1440x900 monitor till it flaked out then i ordered my u2412m.

 

[Mark Rejhon]

So my question is if a TV and monitor are the same screen size and resolution, why do TV's not display the output correctly and why is the image quality so bad? Do TV's just not work as monitors and as there a reason for this?

First of all, many TV's make great computer monitors (not all, but many), but you must adjust them properly before they turn into great monitors.

First, set your TV to Game Mode.
Then, three easy steps to make computer text look great on your HDTV:

Great Looking Computer Text on HDTV

1. Turn off the overscan/zooming that cuts off your Windows taskbar, for 1:1 pixel mapping.
This is typically a TV setting. Find the "Zoom" or "Aspect" or "Screen Fit" setting and try all zoom/aspect/fit settings until the whole taskbar fits. For a Samsung TV, it is usually "Menu.. Picture... Advanced Settings... Picture Options... Screen Fit" .... Keep the computer at 1920x1080, the native resolution of your TV. Where possible, definitely avoid underscan/scaling using the computer, and avoid using a lower resolution than 1920x1080!

2. Turn excess sharpness enhancement off, to fix bad-looking text
Reduce your TV's Sharpness setting until text stops looking distorted. On most TV's, this is the minimum Sharpness setting, Sharpness 0%. (On a few TV's that does blurring-filters at low sharpness settings, then try the center sharpness setting, e.g. 50 out of 100).

3. Run Microsoft ClearType Tuner
After you're done with steps 1 and 2 (And do this ONLY after!), run Microsoft ClearType Tuner. This will fix the appearance of text on your TV.

Sometimes some problems arise, which needs a different cable (e.g. DVI-to-HDMI adaptor), or a different port on your computer (some HDMI ports works better with PC). Other details such as 4:4:4 chroma, lower input lag (check displaylag.com) and PWM-free brightness dimming, as well as motion blur eliminating strobe backlights that work in Game Mode (e.g. Sony Motionflow Impulse, the low-lag non-interpolating version that's like LightBoost) can be an interesting buying consideration if you haven't bought the TV yet.

 

[imaheadcase]

Its not just about screen size and text readability. Most TVs stretch images even if you don't' want it to. Even pixel density is low even if its the same 1900x1080 as the monitor you use.

I've yet to find a TV that properly looks good as a monitor. Even those that claim to be. Maybe the ones a few thousand dollars will, but its not worth it for that.

 

[Durvelle27]

Its not just about screen size and text readability. Most TVs stretch images even if you don't' want it to. Even pixel density is low even if its the same 1900x1080 as the monitor you use.

I've yet to find a TV that properly looks good as a monitor. Even those that claim to be. Maybe the ones a few thousand dollars will, but its not worth it for that.

Mines look as good as some monitors.

 

[Black Octagon]

Generally you must turn scaling off at the tv and set overscan to 0% in Catalyst Control Center.

Isn't it other way round??

 

[Lonyo]

Mine also looks fine.
The main issue was sorting out overscan, after that it's been fine on a 1080p TV connected through a received via HDMI.

 

[Grooveriding]

Huge pixels and input lag.

 

[Bateluer]

Its not just about screen size and text readability. Most TVs stretch images even if you don't' want it to. Even pixel density is low even if its the same 1900x1080 as the monitor you use.

I've yet to find a TV that properly looks good as a monitor. Even those that claim to be. Maybe the ones a few thousand dollars will, but its not worth it for that.

I have to agree with this. Unless you're an an ultratight budget, spend a little more money and get a decent PC monitor, or two. You'll get a better, more pixel dense display without all the hassles and issues of a gigantic(relatively) display sitting 2ft from your face.


That sad, I was tempted by that 39in 4K display at Amazon for 700, Seido brand I think it was. :/ Sadly, I'm pretty sure I lack the required GPU power for that.

 

[Black Octagon]

Seiki is the brand, and it only does 30Hz at 4k, and IMHO that simply ain't enough

 

[beginner99]

I only use my tv with my laptop now and then for watching you tube or so. Works fine and looks good. but text is hardly readable (too small) at the distance I sit at.

Sound is also no problem. I use a DP to HDMI cable. Once I plug in the cable laptop speakers are muted automatically and volume set to max.

 

[ZGR]

Most TV's seem to have poor output quality it seems like. I have a 42 inch Sony that has excellent picture, and text quality at 60hz; with no over-sharpness like most TV's produce.

If I had to, I would use that as a monitor. But I would hold off on getting a 30hz 4k TV. I am starting to appreciate how important motion quality is. I had this idea that after 60hz, the eye has trouble seeing the difference... Oh boy, was I wrong. Fast refresh rates absolutely increase immersion and help mimic reality.

The brain does a great job at forgetting about slow refresh rates though. Try watching an animated film like Howl's Moving Castle. That movie runs at 7 frames per second. 7! When I first started watching it, it is almost annoying; but after awhile, I wasn't bothered at all.

I'm an avid Halo 4 player and that game never runs above 30fps. In heavy multiplayer matches, that number drops in the teens. Gaming needs a nice refresh rate and frame rate. 60hz and 60fps looks a lot better than 30, but 120+ looks even better.

I would definitely need at least 60hz on a 4k display.

 

[tweakboy]

Youll get blurry text on a tv vs pc monitor...... pictures will look same tho. gl

Gaming wise youll have 7ms to 12ms latency.. The big TV has a high latency,,, ghosting and blurring should occur. gl

 

[Kenmitch]

I've been using my TV as a monitor for the past 2 years with no problems

Same here. Mine has a IPS panel which helps. Other than having to go into CCC for the scaling issue I just change the pixel format to RGB 4:4:4 PC Standard(Full RGB) which seems to help a lot on the text. Mine is only a 32" anyways.

My sons TV on the other hand looks pretty crappy. He runs it at 1024x768 to make it bearable.

 

[techietechnics]

I'm running my 7770 on a 42' inch Pana Plasma, no problems encountered right from the beginning. I didn't even touch the settings as well, using a generic(cheap) HDMI cable as well.

 

[chadashcroft22]

Input lag x1000. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1131464/i...esults-of-your-lcd-display-here-for-reference

 

[2is]

The only issue I've ever had using a modern LCD tv as a monitor is the resolution. You've got 1920x1080 pixels spread over a much larger area on a tv then you do on a monitor. The larger the TV, the worse it is. A 30" monitor is pushing 2560x1600 pixels where as a similar size TV is still at 1920x1080 and most people have TV's far larger than 30" yet they're still pushing 1920x1080

 

[tolis626]

I've been using my Phillips 40" HDTV as my monitor for the past year and I couldn't be more pleased.At first it was a temporary solution because I couldn't afford both the TV and a PC monitor.But I like it and haven't replace it yet.Granted,I've used only my PS3 and my laptop with it (ATi Radeon HD4650!!!!-it's 4 years old),but I did have some issues with the LG monitor I used at my parents' house.I'm just looking forward to buying a new PC to see how it does with a proper GPU (most likely the 7970).What was surprising is that text looks pretty much ok on it.I just enabled PC Mode and disabled most image enhancements and it looks crisp enough.Plus,I sit at about 3m from the TV itself,so I can barely discern the pixels when reading black text in white background.When watching movies or gaming,I have no issues whatsoever.

 

[psolord]

I just built a gaming PC for somebody using a Haswell i5 and a HD7770. I used a monitor when I set it up and during the 3 days I had it I never any issues. Since giving it to the person they've reported problems getting output on their screen. I went over today and they are using a cheap 1080p TV. The iGPU works fine on the TV (although picture quality is crap), but the dGPU doesn't work reliably on the TV and when it does the picture is crap, despite the TV being 1080p. The monitor I've been using is 23" and the TV connected to the PC is 26". I know this will affect PPI but the quality between the two accounts for much more than the PPI difference.

I brought the offending HD7770 back with me to run my own tests on it and connected it into my Sandy Bridge PC and it works perfectly on my monitor. With the HD7770 still installed I then connected my PC into my Panasonic 1080p HD TV and the display when in the BIOS was split into 4 segments. In Windows, it would not fill the screen properly and letterboxed it top and bottom no matter what setting I changed regarding aspect etc..

So my question is if a TV and monitor are the same screen size and resolution, why do TV's not display the output correctly and why is the image quality so bad? Do TV's just not work as monitors and as there a reason for this?

I will also attest that I've been using my 5yo Philips Full HDTV with great success. Picture is crisp and clear and text is highly readable.

What I looked for before buying it, was the support for 1:1 pixel mapping, as was very correctly mentioned above.

To see if you have your setup correctly calibrated for 1:1 pixel mapping, visit this link.
http://www.vanity.dk/tft/monitorTest_scale.html (flash required)


Now hover your mouse at the top of the screen and some options will appear. Select 1:1 pixel mapping.

What this test does, is simply draw a checker board moire pattern with very fine granularity. Zoomed in, it would look like this.





Now if your pixel mapping is indeed 1:1 you will be seeing an even greyish pattern like this (picture taken from my HDTV with correct 1:1 pixel mapping)






However, if your 1:1 pixel mapping is non existent, you will be seeing some weird patterns with vertical and horizontal lines appearing, like so:





This will be an indication that you should take action on setting up your system better.

AMD's cards do have a tendency to underscan when connected to a HDTV, which paired with the tendency of TV sets to auto scale, can produce some very unwanted effects.

Nvidia on the other hand has a different approach on the matter and tends to not underscan, thus giving a perfect picture when connected to native 1080P TV panels. This can cause trouble on HD ready TVs though. It's a matter of company policy really.

I will not even try to analyze what happens when some games try to select a 1080P resolution and end up instructing the system to start a 1920X1080X24Hz instead of a 60hz one. Lost Planet 3 is one of the latest additions that do this and the user ends up having to fiddle around with cfg files, lol.