Why do we murder animals?

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DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
I didn't say that. I said that nobody in the U.S. had a need to hunt for food. Since you can get everything you need at the local market a lot faster, and without any special clothing, I assume there must be some motivation other than need for hunters.

I don't think anything I wrote implies any such value judgement. Somebody said hunting was not about entertainment, and I am essentially challenging that statement.

As a general rule we're better off being able to go to the market and get what we need in twenty minutes. That's an advantage of our advanced civilization. Along with washing machines it is one of the things which gives us back leisure time that our ancestors didn't have access to. Hunting for food takes time, skill, preparation. There is an uncertain chance of success. The motivation is unlikely to be simply acquiring things to eat.

Motivation? How about hormone/antibiotic free food? Lean meat - often considered far healthier than beef. Lower fat, lower cholesterol, higher in iron, etc. Or turkey that has a hell of a lot of flavor, compared to store bought counterparts. And Mmmm, rabbit is delicious. And, at least a few times a year, squirrel dinners - melt in your mouth & full of delicious flavor. Not to mention, getting the squirrels is (usually) a matter of changing my clothes after work & going for a walk. And grouse is delicious, as well as pheasant.

I think "entertainment" is the wrong word. Enjoyment is a better word. Many enjoy being outside in the woods where it's very peaceful (usually). Though, there are aspects of entertainment - I cannot think of *anything* I'd consider entertaining that was directly related to the hunt- but relaxing on a log from a downed tree, sitting very quietly, and having a chipmunk not even notice you & try to steal your sandwich - or a red squirrel that after you scare the bejesus out of it, it spends the next 20 minutes 10 feet away in a tree, scolding you. Or watching the antics of some of the other animals who aren't aware of your presence.

I disagree with your general rule. *I* think that as a general rule, the majority of the population is too sedentary. That is, too many people stop at the store or some place for take-out food, go home, and sit on the couch until bedtime. Whereas a lot of the guys I know who hunt will put hours into planting crops for deer, hours upon hours hiking in the woods & scouting for good hunting areas/deer trails, and then time hunting - they're using their leisure time for something much more productive than the majority of Americans - it IS one of their leisure activities.

Further, you have to pay for your food. At the average rate of pay for American workers, the value of the food that many hunters get exceeds what their pay would be for the number of hours they put in to it (were they to get paid.) For example, I expect that on opening day, I'll get a deer. That's roughly 80 pounds of venison for me and my family. I process it myself, so figure about 3 hours to cut it up, wrap the steaks, grind the burger, etc. Most people have to work a lot more than 1 day in order to afford 80 pounds of beef.

There is a strong movement to make the lives and deaths of livestock more humane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin

Yes, there is. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases, people have their hearts in the right place, but really don't know what they're talking about. For example, I just googled for pigs piglets. Among the first links, the male piglets have their testicles cut out of their scrotums! Oh my God, the horror! How inhumane! (I'm being sarcastic.) Actually, there's an interview with Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs) about castrating lambs. It's great to see someone who admits he thought one thing, but then was able to see first hand how what he perceived as being a more humane practice actually was less humane, and vice versa. Unfortunately, politicians sometimes bow to political pressure from misguided individuals, resulting in farmers in some instances being forced to use less humane processes, rather than more humane processes.
 
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Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,382
65
91
if no one hunts, you can't get boar and deer at the butcher's. The butcher has to get the meat somewhere.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
I guess it's "better" when animals kill other animals....because it's "natural"?

You know, when say, a lioness takes down a zebra or an impala, and she's in the process of killing it slowly by suffocation, and the other lions go ahead and start eating it while it's still very much alive?

Or when a wolf pack takes down a buffalo and start eating it while it's still alive?

Nature is a constant life-and-death struggle, which consists of animals ripping each other apart and eating.

And we're supposed to feel bad because someone kills a deer or other animal with a rifle, and it dies very quickly?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I guess it's "better" when animals kill other animals....because it's "natural"?

You know, when say, a lioness takes down a zebra or an impala, and she's in the process of killing it slowly by suffocation, and the other lions go ahead and start eating it while it's still very much alive?

Or when a wolf pack takes down a buffalo and start eating it while it's still alive?

Nature is a constant life-and-death struggle, which consists of animals ripping each other apart and eating.

And we're supposed to feel bad because someone kills a deer or other animal with a rifle, and it dies very quickly?

You know, you've convinced me, that rape is ok. I mean, in the animal kingdom, animals are sometimes quite nasty rapists - makes ours look mild. So enjoy!

Your argument is unpersuasive that any act by man is any better or worse based on the acts that animals do.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
You know, you've convinced me, that rape is ok. I mean, in the animal kingdom, animals are sometimes quite nasty rapists - makes ours look mild. So enjoy!

Your argument is unpersuasive that any act by man is any better or worse based on the acts that animals do.

Don't care if you liked the explanation or not, or if you are capable of understanding it, for that matter.

Fact is, the way man kills is much more humane than the way the animals would die naturally. All I was saying. It's not "murder".

As far as deer go, there are far too many of them around here. No natural predators anymore besides man. Some of them gotta go somehow.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Don't care if you liked the explanation or not, or if you are capable of understanding it, for that matter.

Fact is, the way man kills is much more humane than the way the animals would die naturally. All I was saying. It's not "murder".

As far as deer go, there are far too many of them around here. No natural predators anymore besides man. Some of them gotta go somehow.

The only one not understanding something here is you.

Your post doesn't add anything to what I'd said. Ya, some of that killing can be justified.
 

necroskull

Member
Aug 25, 2013
26
0
0
Watching an animal die slowly of starvation is not fun. I will gladly take a deer or two a year and use every bit of it.
 

mammador

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2010
2,120
1
76
if no one hunts, you can't get boar and deer at the butcher's. The butcher has to get the meat somewhere.

Really? There are deer farms. I doubt many retail places sell wild meat, and I'd be surprised if they did in Europe or North America.
 

mammador

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2010
2,120
1
76
I guess it's "better" when animals kill other animals....because it's "natural"?

You know, when say, a lioness takes down a zebra or an impala, and she's in the process of killing it slowly by suffocation, and the other lions go ahead and start eating it while it's still very much alive?

Or when a wolf pack takes down a buffalo and start eating it while it's still alive?

Nature is a constant life-and-death struggle, which consists of animals ripping each other apart and eating.

And we're supposed to feel bad because someone kills a deer or other animal with a rifle, and it dies very quickly?

yes. Lions kill for food. We in our current society don't need to hunt for food. Unless hillbilles in the US haven't invented agriculture or pastoralism yet, but there you go. Lions and wolves the last time I checked don't and cannot know better. Also, most people in the US hunt for sport. You're presenting a chalk and cheese argument.
 

jaha2000

Senior member
Jul 28, 2008
949
0
0
I would gladly dispose of a deer with a rifle instead of seeing it go to waste getting smeared all over the highway. Whats more humane? Whats better for society?

What are farmers supposed to do if not kill off animals that are taking money out of there pockets? What about all the problems with wild pigs in the country? Just supposed to hug them and tell them to stop?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
yes. Lions kill for food. We in our current society don't need to hunt for food. Unless hillbilles in the US haven't invented agriculture or pastoralism yet, but there you go. Lions and wolves the last time I checked don't and cannot know better. Also, most people in the US hunt for sport. You're presenting a chalk and cheese argument.

lol
 

mammador

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2010
2,120
1
76
I guess I find it silly that so many people are "ok" with supermarkets yet have somewhat strong feelings against hunting. It's not like a stockyard or commercial chicken farm is anywhere close to humane or a "happy life" for the animal. I guess ignorance is bliss.

Would venture to guess that it's a "City folk" vs "Country folk" division for the most part.

I oppose wanton killing of animals. I don't even kill flies or insects.

Killing for food, IMO at least (yeah, since people don't need food) is not wanton. Nor is killing an animal for protection or to protect environments (like culling).

I don't get the need to kill animals for sport, and people who do as such are retarded.
 

jaha2000

Senior member
Jul 28, 2008
949
0
0
yes. Lions kill for food. We in our current society don't need to hunt for food. Unless hillbilles in the US haven't invented agriculture or pastoralism yet, but there you go. Lions and wolves the last time I checked don't and cannot know better. Also, most people in the US hunt for sport. You're presenting a chalk and cheese argument.

I hunt for food.. Not for sport..
you see how much a pound of beef costs in the store these days?
 

mammador

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2010
2,120
1
76

OK, so wolves can reason as we do? Wolves can't survive on anything else other than flesh? So yeah, wolves can't help it, we can. We can thus choose not to kill animals, or at the least kill them for valid purposes.
 

jaha2000

Senior member
Jul 28, 2008
949
0
0
OK, so wolves can reason as we do? Wolves can't survive on anything else other than flesh? So yeah, wolves can't help it, we can. We can thus choose not to kill animals, or at the least kill them for valid purposes.

I hope you are a vegan... Otherwise all your arguments mean diddly...
 

bignateyk

Lifer
Apr 22, 2002
11,288
7
0
There is nothing wrong with sport hunting.

Sport hunting (at least in some cases) is actually used to fund conservation efforts. I don't have a problem with sport hunting when the animals that are being hunted were bred for that purpose.

I personally wouldn't do it because I think it's stupid, but to each their own.
 
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