Again:
That there are more men in particular industries doesn't necessarily mean that women are unwilling to do those same jobs.
The study looked at nursing and engineering. The nursing field was dominated by women, the engineering field was dominated by men.
Are you seriously suggesting that women should get paid the same as men despite working less?
So much for equal pay for EQUAL work huh?:hmm:
Yet more ill-logic and bizarre conclusions from nehalem non-sequitur.
Yet more ill-logic and bizarre conclusions from nehalem non-sequitur.
Again:
That there are more men in particular industries doesn't necessarily mean that women are unwilling to do those same jobs.
What ill-logic.
You were saying the idea that women take more time off work is not justification for paying them less.
When 96% of the people in a certain field are men, that should tell you women are not willing to do those types of jobs.
Studies like this have something of a post-rationalisation about them. Let's not forget that within living memory women were paid less simply because they were women, and the people who point to studies like this to justify the continuing disparity seem to be doing so in a "see, we told you that women weren't worth as much as men!" way.
Men are more likely to get into physical confrontations with each other and in my experience at least (yes, I'm aware this is anecdotal but it serves as an example) they appear more likely to turn up with a hangover or go to the pub for lunch when at work.
If businesses started deducting the pay of all their male employees by 5% because of these factors I somehow doubt that the likes of yourself and Texashiker would be applauding them like you do when it comes to women getting paid less due to reasons X, Y, Z in these studies.
It might give the impression of that being the case, yes.
It might give the impression of that being the case, yes.
There is no "impression" of anything.
Lets start with the 1960s and the womens rights movement. Women have had 50 years to bring balance to the workforce.
50 years of progress and women still only make up 4 and 5% of certain fields.
There is no "impression" of anything.
Lets start with the 1960s and the womens rights movement. Women have had 50 years to bring balance to the workforce.
50 years of progress and women still only make up 4 and 5% of certain fields.
I think you need to indulge in a little more logical reasoning yourself and take a look at the guff that he was responding to.
Texashiker is claiming that women don't want to do the same types of work that men do, based entirely on some statistics - that there are more men in particular industries doesn't necessarily mean that women are unwilling to do those same jobs.
Those bitches, they've had an entire half-century to get their acts together after countless millenia of being second class citizens yet they've sat there doing nothing the entire time.
It's funny how you think that only women need to change.
Those bitches, they've had an entire half-century to get their acts together after countless millenia of being second class citizens yet they've sat there doing nothing the entire time.
It's funny how you think that only women need to change.
Statistically, Texashiker is correct. Women, as a whole, aren't willing to go into coal mines and do manual labor all day. They simply do not have the testosterone and possess the opposite hormones necessary. Does that mean that some do not take up the challenge? Of course not! Plenty of women join up the army/navy/airforce/welding/<insert manual labor>. But statistically they do not make up ANYWHERE NEAR a majority of those. So why sit there fooling yourself into believing they do?
For anyone to deny that that is mockingly laughable.
Where did I ever make such a statement?
But I see someone here making statements like this:
"women complain about unequal pay why [sic] not wanting to do equal work"
Or
"Why do women get paid less than men?
They are unlikely to apply for dangerous jobs. The fact is men work dangerous jobs in much greater numbers than women.
Young women are likely to take off to have children, and companies do not want to deal with women taking off.
So DominionSeraph, when was the last time you worked construction, welding, machinist, mining,,, or some other dangerous job?
The last time I worked in a welding shop was 9 years ago; there was not a single woman working in the whole shop. Not a single female welder, not a single female boilermaker, nor a single female machinist."
Seems like an awful lot of both blanket statements and blanket implications about women in general goin' on here and they are not coming from me.
Who has denied the statistics?
Again, that there are more men in particular industries doesn't necessarily mean that women are unwilling to do those same jobs.
I think you need to indulge in a little more logical reasoning yourself and take a look at the guff that he was responding to.
Texashiker is claiming that women don't want to do the same types of work that men do, based entirely on some statistics - that there are more men in particular industries doesn't necessarily mean that women are unwilling to do those same jobs.
I don't think he only thinks women need to change. But there is a disconnect between the claim for wanting equal rights and not actually doing the things it would take to get there.
Lets go with... (or I guess start with).. uhhh... YOU.
Again, that there are more men in particular industries doesn't necessarily mean that women are unwilling to do those same jobs.
Who has denied the statistics?
Again, that there are more men in particular industries doesn't necessarily mean that women are unwilling to do those same jobs.
I don't think he only thinks women need to change. But there is a disconnect between the claim for wanting equal rights and not actually doing the things it would take to get there.
There does need to be some change by men and over time that'll happen. But let's be honest here. When there are 4% women in an entire field whether fully or not there is at least some aspect that women aren't willing to do that work. There is also I'm sure some aspect of men frowning on a woman trying to do so. If a woman wants kids and a family why would they subject themselves to being on the front line or working laborous jobs that they couldn't do while pregnant?
Plain and simple I think proof is there that not all women are willing to make the same sacrifices men are in regards to making money. This is as much a cultural thing as it is a gender thing. As a culture we still see men as the breadwinners and are just now moving to the idea that women can be the breadwinner.
Case and point my workplace is dominated by males at the executive/upper management level. There are 2 women that occupy those roles and 14 men. Of the two women I only see one that puts in odd and extra hours that we have been discussing men do. She's more the exception from what I see. I'm not saying they can't or won't given the opportunity but many seem to be simply content.
This debate will go on for the next 20 years.
I think he is saying there isn't a problem.
If women prefer to work less or easier jobs and make less money why shouldn't that be an acceptable choice?