Why do you guys bother with PC gaming?

[GaiaHunter]

There is a big difference now. You admitted that other cross-platform games sold better on consoles than on the PC. But you still said this:



The way it is now is:

14% of 3.4 Million retail units were PC sales, with remaining retail units (of total 7 million) accounting for the unsold portion of retail units.

Assuming the remaining 3.6 million unsold units will have similar % preferences among consumers, it is not unreasonable to expect the remaining 3.6 million copies of SKYRIM to sell a similar 14-15% distribution to the PC platform.

That would mean on the PC, SKYRIM, only sold 14-15% of the total 7 million retail units. So which platform is more important for this game? Not the PC.

Takeaways:

1) Unless the digital sales are at least another 5-6 million on the PC, then the PC platform will sell a lot less units of SKYRIM than it will on consoles.

2) SKYRIM, being one of the most premier titles on the PC is the "best case scenario" for the PC. And even this 9.5+ game will sell more units on console sales. What does that leave for the other PC game developers who can't make a game as good as SKYRIM and don't go multi-platform? They have no chance unless they are small indie developers trying to make a name for themselves, with hopes to eventually go multi-platform anyway.

3) Even if in the future the PC eventually sells 4-5 million digital copies, SKYRIM will drop to $19.99-29.99 on STEAM within 12-15 months, significantly reducing profitability for the developer. Expect $14.99 deal on SKYRIM by the holiday season of next year.

4) SKYRIM is just another perfect example that if you want to make a lot of $, you have to go cross-platform since console sales are many times more than PC sales (unless you are Blizzard). Blastingcap outlined this strategy as Paragraph 9 strategy in his post. And we are seeing it in action with SKYRIM. In fact, SKYRIM PC sales are just a bonus for a game that was largely developed to sell well on consoles. Imho, the user interface was designed for console controllers in mind as opposed to the traditional keyboard and mouse setup. I still love SKYRIM, but I don't believe for a second that SKYRIM was developed for the PC in mind.

The way it is now, is that most games are designed for consoles in mind. And if you get Nvidia to throw millions of dollars, you might get specialized PhysX effects (Batman AC) or an extra layer of DX11 (Crysis). If it wasn't for that, and the guys at DICE not going out of their way to make BF3 special, or an occassional glitter of creativity like the ArMA series, the entire 2011 year would go down as another year of PC console ports. The real PC gems are all strategy and MMO games at this point. Everything else is pretty much all console ports.

I still game on the PC since I prefer keyboard and mouse for FPS / role-playing genre, but the desire to drop $800-900 on PC graphics is no longer there for me since I am just going to be maxing out console ported game engines in 95% of cases.....

I know a lot of people didn't like the fact that Doom 3, Far Cry 1, Crysis 1 killed their graphics and they needed to wait a generation or even 2 to get those games playable at max settings, I loved that about the PC at the time. I wish we got a game like Crysis at least once a year.

Even BF3 has to resort to somewhat efficient 4x MSAA implementation to bring modern videocards to their knees. Without 4x MSAA, modern cards such as 6970 and GTX570/580 can easily max this game out at 1080P. That was NOT the case for top of the line cards when Doom 3, Far Cry 1 or Crysis 1 came out. Back then, you were lucky to get 15-20 fps in those games with your $500 graphics card.

Reports like this and this and this show/point games physical sales declining and being surpassed by digital sales.

I wouldn't be surprised if a game like skyrim sold half its units digitally.

Second, these games are developed towards consoles because it requires less work/less resources to port them to PC.

Additionally it is impressive how well PC games sell considering you can barely find them in a shop surrounded by console games.

 

[HeXen]

you guys should write long novels like Steven King. considering the size of these posts, you guys would be good at it.
Write a book based entirely on references found from Google or write one about how your preferences are better than others, again using references from Google to reinforce your preference....its in these areas that you guys rule.

 

[RussianSensation]

Reports like this and this and this show/point games physical sales declining and being surpassed by digital sales.

I wouldn't be surprised if a game like skyrim sold half its units digitally.

Ok so do the math. If SKYRIM sold 15% of 7 million on the PC, that amounts to 1.05 million physical copies. So for PC sales to reach just half the market share of SKYRIM's console sales, digital sales would have had to be another 2.45 million.

But none of that addresses my points that:

1) SKYRIM is one of the best PC games this year and its overall sales on the PC (even if around 3.5 million with digital sales) still pale in comparison to what key title franchises sell on consoles.

2) Starcaft 2 took 6 months to sell as many copies as MW3 did for Xbox360 in 1 week. Starcraft 2 is the best RTS game on the PC right now, while MW3 is just another crappy shooter that is no different than MW2. What do you think is going to happen once Wii U launches and adds the next generation consoles as a viable HD gaming system? COD released on all 3 platforms simulateneously will probably sell 20 million copies in 1 month, something no PC game will accomplish.

3) If you look at EPIC and their Gears of War series, a game that barely sold on the PC, it became a premium franchise on the Xbox.

While the piracy concerns exist on consoles too, when PC games only sell 1-5 million copies (if they are amazing), then when half of those are pirated (Witcher 2, Starcraft 2, etc.), you are losing half of your potential revenue, if not more.

Do you think half of Xbox 360 and PS3 consoles are modded?

Why did Crytek abandon the PC platform with Crysis 2 by going cross-platform? Why is everyone who isn't making RTS or MMOs going multi-platform? Why are so many developers complaining that PC piracy is so rampant? Are they all cry babies?

Not only that, but developers have to put up with PC gamers who are far more critical of games. It's way harder to develop a PC game that will sell 5 million than to do the same for consoles.

Second, these games are developed towards consoles because it requires less work/less resources to port them to PC.

Consoles games are developed on the PC not on a console. So the cost of porting those games is minimal. The reason games are developed with consoles in mind is because that's where most of the $ is, the active installed gamer base is much larger, and it costs way too much $ to make 2 different games (i.e., a console version and an uber graphics / physics infused PC version). If it was worthwhile to make PC games a lot better than console games, everyone would be doing it, and almost no one is doing it. I mean NV was rumored to pay Crytek $ to implement the DX11 patch....

Additionally it is impressive how well PC games sell considering you can barely find them in a shop surrounded by console games.

Why are so few PC games in retail shops? Could it have anything to do with the fact that the shelf space in stores is limited? A store isn't going to have PC games on shelves if it sells 10x as many console games. Also, I am not sure how many PC gamers are going to pay $49-59 for a physical game when they can buy that game for $20 on Steam in 4-5 months and for $5-10 in 12-15 months.

I just wish they would break down digital and physical sales for all games every year, including revenue #s, so we would no longer have 'missing information'. One of the reasons I buy PC games more often is because they cost so little. In fact, in the last 3 years, the only game I bought at full price was Starcraft 2. Every other game I have on Steam is < $10. That doesn't even account for how many games I got for free through special promos and videocard purchases (Dirt 3, Just Cause 2, Mafia 2, Metro 2033, Portal, etc.)

 

[taltamir]

You admitted that other cross-platform games sold better on consoles than on the PC

No, I admitted some console ports probably sold a little better on aconsole. Shock and awe!

That would mean on the PC, SKYRIM, only sold 14-15&#37;

And an unknown number of digitial distribution sales. Unknown does not mean I win, does not mean you win, it means unknown. As such all your takeaways are null.

2) SKYRIM, being one of the most premier titles on the PC

skyrim is a console port. It doesn't work right on consoles cause its too much game for such winpy hardware. But everything about it is consolized. The graphics are consolized, the UI is consolized, the controls... its a console game. I thought I had proof it definitely outsold consoles on the PC but I didn't, its an unkown how well said console game sells on the PC.

2) SKYRIM, being one of the most premier titles on the PC is the "best case scenario" for the PC.

No it isn't. MMOs (biggest games outthere not available on a console at all), indie games (which often outsell consoles 10/1 on the PC), and true PC centric games like starcraft and diablo are premier and best case scenario for the PC.

4) SKYRIM is just another perfect example that if you want to make a lot of $, you have to go cross-platform

Which we agree on.

since console sales are many times more than PC sales

No they aren't, retail accounts for a minority of total sales and massively reduced profit, digitial distribution is where it is at.

(unless you are Blizzard).

Or the dozens and dozens of other companies that sell better on a PC.

Ok so do the math. If SKYRIM sold 15% of 7 million on the PC, that amounts to 1.05 million physical copies. So for PC sales to reach just half the market share of SKYRIM's console sales, digital sales would have had to be another 2.45 million.

And according to the data, digital distribution outsells... so about 10 million more PC only sales via digitial ditribution there. making it 12 million PC vs 5 million console.
There are many ways to tweak the data and make estimates... what we need is concrete evidence which we do not currently have.
And again, skyrim is a console game first and formost.

 

[nsavop]

Taltamir your way over estimating digital download vs retail in terms of sales just look at the links posted by gaiahunter on top of this page link. Even if you triple the known which is retail sales (thats being generous) pc sales lag way behind in most cross platform games.

 

[TestKing123]

Who cares about sales. PC's destroy consoles in pretty much every other category. Consoles are only good for exclusives, cross platform games are best played on a PC. I often cringe at just how backward and ugly console games look, often from a simple lack of AF filtering and proper AA.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Why are so few PC games in retail shops? Could it have anything to do with the fact that the shelf space in stores is limited? A store isn't going to have PC games on shelves if it sells 10x as many console games. Also, I am not sure how many PC gamers are going to pay $49-59 for a physical game when they can buy that game for $20 on Steam in 4-5 months and for $5-10 in 12-15 months.

I'm one of those that believe that if I want to buy something it better already exist where I'm going to buy it, otherwise no matter how much I want to buy it is impossible to me.

If there are no PC games on the shelves, the shop will surely sell less.

People will buy the games full price when they want to play them right now, the same reason they line up to buy iphones when in a year those iphones will be half the price and/or a new improved iphone is out, or the same reason people buy hardware at day 1 even though in a few months will be cheaper - it is about when your desire overcomes the will to conserve resources.

Additionally the question is, why do game prices drop in a place like steam? It isn't taking any space at all, there is no money tied up to the product.

I wish they could stop piracy, because at least the excuses would end.

For example Skyrim. Did consoles sell 10x more copies than the PC? If Skyrim sold as much PC copies digitally as it did physically, PC is on par with PS3, with much less shelf exposition and publicity.

How many of us are going to buy CoD:MW3 for the PC?

Isn't MW3 exactly the same game as MW2 and MW1?

A good PC game like SC2 developed for PC sell 4-5x as more than a cross platform, doesn't it?

What about a game like Guild Wars, that sold over 6.5 million copies?

 

[taltamir]

A good PC game like SC2 developed for PC sell 4-5x as more than a cross platform, doesn't it?

What about a game like Guild Wars, that sold over 6.5 million copies?

Obviously
1. Blizzard is an exception and thus should be ignored.
2. MMOs are popular on PC and as such do not count and should be ignored.
3. Indies sell so few overall games, that even though they sell the most on PC they don't county and should be ignored.
4. Genres that are popular on PC don't count and should be ignored.

So what does count? Only genres that are popular on consoles, duh!

 

[Saico]

Because consoles are only popular in USA. Other countries don't bother with cosole market.

 

[Jacky60]

you guys should write long novels like Steven King. considering the size of these posts, you guys would be good at it.
Write a book based entirely on references found from Google or write one about how your preferences are better than others, again using references from Google to reinforce your preference....its in these areas that you guys rule.

Lol, very funny even though Russian Sensation's posts are invariably very well informed and incisive rather than the short and dare I say dumbass red is better than blue type posts. Perhaps twitter style character number limits avoiding the informative evidential references would dumb things down sufficiently for you.

 

[Jacky60]

Because consoles are only popular in USA. Other countries don't bother with cosole market.

Yeah right? Where TF did that gem of nonsense come from? Every one of my adult male friends has an xbox 360 and or a PS3, that's about 20, only one has a PC capable of gaming on (i.e.capable of playing Skyrim/BF3 at low quality settings). Did you know that mobile phones are only popular in the US, other countries don't bother with them....?

 

[GaiaHunter]

I just think it is a bit fun.

PC games aren't profitable, so developers develop for consoles first.

PC gamers then complain that ports are crap, although in fact ports play no worse in PCs than consoles - if some don't play very well with a keyboard a good controller isn't expensive.

Still, PCs play at higher resolutions and/or higher frame rates and/or higher image quality.

So console gaming is prospering while PC game is dying, even though they play exactly the same titles, even though many times the PC game version has a better score than the console version.

Ah but consoles have more exclusives, as if MMORPGS and Strategy games aren't games and aren't pretty much exclusive to PCs.

PCs cost more, as if PC don't have other uses and as if a PC to play at consoles settings is that expensive and pay up for the difference with its other uses.

The truth is that it is HARDER/MORE EXPENSIVE to develop for HIGHER TECH, and to use that HIGHER TECH you need to pay more, and consumers votes with their wallet point to the large majority not caring about the higher tech.

Piracy exists and it surely is a concern but I wonder how much of that is just noise and how much is real lost sales.

Look at Crytek (page 10), that moved to consoles because of plagued by piracy PC. Far Cry sold 2.5 million units, Crysis 3 millions and Warhead 1.5 millions. Look at Crysis 2 sales over all the 3 platforms: around 3 millions.

 

[SirPauly]

Console gaming is doing fine but does this platform have the most growth potential for the future?

 

[spaceman]

games cheaper
no conTROLLer f that
legacy
aint tied down to anyone singing the subscription tune(live)
mods
roll your own configs

 

[AdamK47]

What some people deem a hellish daunting task upgrading their PC, others enjoy it and view it as a hobby. Explaning the hobby viewpoint to someone with the hellish dauting viewpoint causes them to sieze up and then flail their arms about like Robbie the robot from Lost in Space. Complete with sparks and the phrase "Error! Error! Does not compute!" being uttered over and over again.

 

[RussianSensation]

Obviously
1. Blizzard is an exception and thus should be ignored.
2. MMOs are popular on PC and as such do not count and should be ignored.
3. Indies sell so few overall games, that even though they sell the most on PC they don't county and should be ignored.
4. Genres that are popular on PC don't count and should be ignored.

So what does count? Only genres that are popular on consoles, duh!

This isn't what I am trying to get across. I am not denying that if you enjoy #1-3, you'll probably own a laptop or a desktop to play them. What I am saying is that for a lot of people who like "mainstream" or "popular" games, they can just play them on consoles without having to spend a lot of $$ to build a desktop PC or spend $1,500-2,000 on an Alienware gaming laptop with a good discrete GPU.

Now take a look at November 2011 game sales charts:

TOP 10 GAMES FOR NOVEMBER 2011
Title (Platforms) - Publisher
1. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (X360, PS3, PC) - Activision
2. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (X360, PS3, PC) - Bethesda Softworks
3. Battlefield 3 (X360, PS3, PC) - EA
4. Assassin's Creed: Revelations (X360, PS3, PC) - Ubisoft
5. Just Dance 3 (Wii, X360) - Ubisoft
6. Madden NFL 12 (X360, PS3, Wii, PS2, PSP) - EA
7. Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception (PS3) - Sony
8. Saints Row: The Third (X360, PS3, PC) - Microsoft Game Studios
9. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (Wii) - Nintendo
10. Batman: Arkham City (X360, PS3, PC) - Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment

Notice that the best selling games are available on consoles and the PC (and it should be since you have a much larger installed gamer base). However, if a gamer knows he can play MW3, Batman, TES5, AC:R, Saints Row on $200-250 consoles, would he/she be willing to build an $800-1000 desktop just for better graphics and controls and then go out and have to buy a nice monitor too?

Guys like us are willing to do that and upgrade over time. Some people have Eyefinity setups and $1500 of GPUs. Others spend $300-400 in upgrades per year. Others build a $500 rig and upgrade it slowly as they get $.

What you aren't realizing is that right NOW you can build a good gaming rig for $500 that will blow PS3 out of the water. So PC route looks particularly great. But could you have built a $500 desktop in 2005-2008 that would crush PS3/Xbox360? Probably not.

Once next generation of consoles arrive, would we be able to build a $500-600 desktop that will still play games 5-6 years from that point without a single upgrade? Probably not.

Well in 2005-2008, a lot of people were faced with this exact decision. They could have built a desktop PC, gotten a high-end gaming laptop or just spent $400-500 on a console + controllers and be done with it.

I pulled up my receipt for an 8800GTX purchased in Canada in 2007, probably the time when PS3 cost $350 or so.

Now by 2013/2014, an equivalent top-of-the-line GPU will likely be GTX780 or HD8970, either of which will probably cost $500+.

A next generation console might also cost $400-500 (pure guess on my part). Even if we assume that you wait to buy PC games when they are $5-10 on Steam, it will still take a long time and a lot of games to break even in total ownership cost because that $500 GPU needs CPU+Mobo+Ram+tower, etc. Most people aren't technically savy enough to build a PC themselves. So they'll go out and buy some crappy desktop at retail for $800 with a GPU that will be obsolete in just 2 years. And I somehow doubt that the $500 GTX780 will be fast enough to play games in 2017-2018. And if you buy what right now appears to be a reasonably powerful HD6870 for $130, that card will be worse than integrated APUs by 2016-2017 I bet, making it useless for future games.

And that's not even taking into account that most people might already own a consumer device such as a laptop. So for them to build a new desktop would mean building it strictly for games since they already have another device on which they work/do email/browse the internet, etc. And if they have a desktop, it probably has older components since after Core 2 Duo, CPUs became pretty much fast enough for work / email / internet browsing. Are those people going to go out and buy a $400-500 GPU to play games? Or are they going to be buying a $200 GPU every 2 years to keep up with future games?

OTOH, they can just go out and buy a $400-500 console and not bother doing a single upgrade for 6-7 years. That is probably another large reason why consoles are so popular. Even if long-term you end up saving $$ on PC games, not everyone might be willing to spend $800-1000 on a desktop PC upfront and have the knowledge and desire to resell older parts and upgrade to newer parts (even if it ultimately costs them less over the 6-7 year period).

And then there is the factor that because so many people own consoles, you may want to smoke your friends online (because it can sometimes be more fun to win over your friends, then to win over complete strangers on leaderboards). The lower cost of entry, lack of required upgrades, widespread popularity/social gaming aspects, ease of use, multi-media player capabilities, 'set it and forget it' mentality all contribute to the popularity of consoles.

While AMD and NV rebading GTX500 and HD6000 series on laptops isn't elevating the GPU performance level for people who aren't quite ready to drop $1000 on a mid-range gaming laptop. The situation will only get worse once more powerful next generation consoles launch because on the PC side we'll need a GTX680/HD7970 just to close the gap in graphics (since consoles are coded directly to hardware without an API layer).

I build desktops because it's my hobby, I am willing to pay for it to get the best graphics, upgrade it over time, etc. But I am just not sure I buy into your argument that building a desktop gaming PC isn't much more expensive than owning a $300-400 console.

 

[RussianSensation]

What some people deem a hellish daunting task upgrading their PC, others enjoy it and view it as a hobby. Explaning the hobby viewpoint to someone with the hellish dauting viewpoint causes them to sieze up and then flail their arms about like Robbie the robot from Lost in Space. Complete with sparks and the phrase "Error! Error! Does not compute!" being uttered over and over again.

:thumbsup: When Crysis came out, I couldn't wait to show it to the guys with whom I play console games. But much to my surprise, they weren't amazed enough to actually go out and build a desktop PC for themselves. To them, researching parts, upgrading was more of a chore. For me, it was part of the fun. Then I realized that the simplicity aspect of consoles was more appealing to them, despite seeing that PCs had far superior graphics and physics effects.

In other news, sales of MW3 sales have now surpassed $1 Billion.
http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/activision-modern-warfare-3-fastest-1-billion-130949515.html

This further highlights that console gamers will spend $60 on an average game (imo) that has graphics from 2008 with barely any changes to gameplay. While developers on the PC have to be creative and innovative, push high-res texture packs, wow us with DX11 graphics, realistic physics effects, and spend time actually producing rewarding long single-player campaigns or outstanding multi-player arenas (BF3).

COD is like the Madden of FPS games, re-skin, change the # to MW4, off you go sell another $1 billion. Sad, truly sad.

 

[SirPauly]

All the strengths of the console but it isn't really growing.

 

[blastingcap]

What some people deem a hellish daunting task upgrading their PC, others enjoy it and view it as a hobby. Explaning the hobby viewpoint to someone with the hellish dauting viewpoint causes them to sieze up and then flail their arms about like Robbie the robot from Lost in Space. Complete with sparks and the phrase "Error! Error! Does not compute!" being uttered over and over again.

So long as decent (not rushed or half-arsed) ports keep getting made, so long as there aren't TOO many good console-exclusive games, then this is fine. Keeps out the riff raff. As bad as multiplayer gaming can be on PC with lots of immature little punks, I know it's even worse on consoles. Let the kiddies game on consoles and help pay the development costs for the same game that shows up on PC. They are happy with their simple boxes, devs make more money, I have to suffer fewer micspammers. Everybody is happy except those few rich guys who insist that PC games take full advantage of their tri-SLI GTX 580s or whatever.

 

[mattdallastx]

COD is like the Madden of FPS games, re-skin, change the # to MW4, off you go sell another $1 billion. Sad, truly sad.

Good reference.

 

[AdamK47]

So long as decent (not rushed or half-arsed) ports keep getting made, so long as there aren't TOO many good console-exclusive games, then this is fine. Keeps out the riff raff. As bad as multiplayer gaming can be on PC with lots of immature little punks, I know it's even worse on consoles. Let the kiddies game on consoles and help pay the development costs for the same game that shows up on PC. They are happy with their simple boxes, devs make more money, I have to suffer fewer micspammers. Everybody is happy except those few rich guys who insist that PC games take full advantage of their tri-SLI GTX 580s or whatever.

I'm not exactly rich or whatever.

 

[BELLY888]

I like PC gaming couse some games you can't find on console . I m a big Total war fan. And there so much more to do then just gaming on a PC !

 

[Dribble]

I think your charts miss out on quite a few games. For example the PC only world of tanks despite being "free to play" can be very expensive - people have spent hundreds of $$$ on it. It has 40,000 players on the European server alone at busy times and that's not even the biggest server as far as I know. They must be making a fortune.

It was a download only game that got it's first physical box you could buy from the shops a few days ago.

 

[mattdallastx]

Everybody is happy except those few rich guys who insist that PC games take full advantage of their tri-SLI GTX 580s or whatever.

I'm not rich. I saved up for my 580 SLI Setup for at least 2 months.

 

[NTAC]

One misconception is that you can't use controllers on a PC... like, how can I possibly play NBA 2k12 with keyboard and mouse?!

Anyway, obviously that's ridiculous, you can always just plug in a wired 360 controller and it'll be just like you're playing on a console.