Why does AT continually reccomend MSI motherboards despite the reliablilty problems?

[JBT]

From my experiences MSI's are ussually good at first which is when AT reviews them, then a little bit later on in thier lives they fall off a cliff.

 

[Amaroque]

I'm currently using the K8N Neo2 Plat. Reason being is because ASUS didn't make a 939 NF3U board.

I've had quite a bit of problems with this board, most of which I've been able to work through. The point is though, that I shouldn't have had to.

I haven't had this many problems with a board since the SS7 days.

 

[Budman]

Originally posted by: Thegonagle
What was the brand of defective motherboard that brought down AT a couple of years ago? (I hope it wasn't MSI! I can't remember though.)

yes it was MSI!!!

here's the link.

Mayday, mayday, we're going down

 

[Gunbuster]

Note how the AT main page still links out to the now shut down MSI holiday sweepstakes that was violating state laws by requiring a purchase.

 

[Kishan]

I like DFI. They pay attention to more details

 

[Smaulz]

The only MSI board I've ever owned (Master2FAR w/ dual 246's) has served me quite well. I've had no problems with it at all.

 

[The J]

My brother's K8T Neo-FSR is working very well for him and he's very happy with it. I've decided to go with the K8N Neo2 Platinum (just got to get it from my campus's mail center today!) because I've read good reviews by searching Google for them as well as good things in forums. An important point when buying any product is to do your research first by reading several reviews and looking at several forums to get a general consensus of the quality of a product. Looking only at AT forums and AT reviews will not help because there is always some bias in looking at only one place (no offense to anyone here, but that's just what happens).

 

[Kogan]

And I bet some of you guys think the US government is hiding info on the aliens that they've been in contact with for 50 years...

Anyhow, I've owned 3 msi boards, 2 asus boards, 1 abit board and 3 epox boards in the last few years and I've had two of the epox's die on me. 2 of the msi's are still in use and work great.

People just like to complain when they get a bad motherboard - Just RMA it already. Everyone makes a few bad motherboards revisions especially when they're in a hurry to come out with the latest and greatest (I just wish epox would stop sending me their worst )

 

[DrCool]

Originally posted by: Kogan
And I bet some of you guys think the US government is hiding info on the aliens that they've been in contact with for 50 years...

Anyhow, I've owned 3 msi boards, 2 asus boards, 1 abit board and 3 epox boards in the last few years and I've had two of the epox's die on me. 2 of the msi's are still in use and work great.

People just like to complain when they get a bad motherboard - Just RMA it already. Everyone makes a few bad motherboards revisions especially when they're in a hurry to come out with the latest and greatest (I just wish epox would stop sending me their worst )

great post! :thumbsup:

a large part of the problem is uneducated consumers.. they buy on a whim, based on FANCY packaging, naming conventions, and 'supposed' features. they don't take the time to educate themselves, and find out what they really need, and who CONSISTENTLY delievers a Quality product. Sure there are always EXCEPTIONS to the rule, but do you want to be the Guinea Pig who finds out? Just because say ePox produced one (1) really good socket-a motherboard doesn't mean they have good customer service, support website, consistently produce quality product, etc.

people need to stop falling into the HYPE, and really do some research on their own.. use COMMON SENSE, and remember THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH!!

 

[Rand]

I can't say as I've been particularly fond of MSI over the last few years either, primarily due to the fact that their RMA rates have been a touch high in recent years.
With that said, I have no serious problems with AnandTech recommending their boards, generally they've done quiet well in anandTech's reviews and I don't feel AT is biased in MSI's favor.
AT presumably doesn't have access to the manufacturers RMA rates, or any individual stores RMA/failure rates and so cannot conclusively comment on long term reliability.

At least through the store I generally purchase from, MSI's RMA rates have hovered roughly around ~8% in recent years.
I haven't a clue what type of failure rates other stores have seen as naturally their not going to hand out such data. The only reason I have any data from one store is due to to a close friendship with the owner.

I do recall the MSI K7T Pro 2A had extremely high failure rates though. All manufacturers have their good/bad boards though, and I don't doubt that MSI has some very reliable boards.

Personally I tend to lean towards Asus/AOpen/Siemens/Intel for consumer motherboards, but I've also purchased DFI/Epox/Soyo with some degree of regularity in systems I've built for myself/others.
Even manufacturers that I generally avoid, have some fine boards however.


If AnandTech's own experiences with MSI motherboards have been positive, then I can well understand their recommendations. Naturally AT is going to put considerably more worth in their own experiences then those of anonymous users on their forums despite the significantly greater number of motherboards used by all of the many forum participants.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: BentValve

Originally posted by: Naustica
General consensus from various forums are much more reliable in objectivity than one reviewer. Knowledge of one is dwarfed by many. I will take opinion of the masses and people I trust over single paid site reviewer who's objectivity I question.

yeah but sadly many base their own thoughs on those same reviews. And then you have the "I own it so it must be good" factor.

Its takes quite abit of searching to find the real truth without actually buying the product and finding out for yourself.

Come on, I can take a quick sampling of this Site's forums and Ars Technica's and get the general consensus on a particular product. This provides a pretty good insight into whether or not it is a good or bad product.
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.
btw, it's "thoughts" not thoughs....

 

[Insidious]

I tend to put a lot of trust in the AT reviews, BUT with a couple caviats:

First of all, in the past there was some "bad blood" between AT and ABit... I think it had to do with difficulty getting free hardware to test or in a timely manner or something. It used to be the kiss of death in these forums to admit to using ABit anything . I'm not sure there is such an issue today.

Secondly, AT reviews are weighted VERY heavily on price. Sometimes I have had the impression that price was given way too much consideration in evaluating which hardware performs the best.

Finally, I think it is important to note that AT reviews DO NOT test hardware for reliability over time or construction methods (except for connector loacations and heat removal capabilities.

Wether it is popular to believe it or not, MSI, BFG (and others) are mass producers of designs originating elsewhere. I work in the electronics insustry as a hardware design engineer and do know of what I speak when it comes to OBVIOUS shortcuts in hardware manufacturing (cheap connector mounts, poor soldermasking, component mounting, quality control issues, selection of generic ICs and discrete parts, etc.) I have found that AT reviews tend to assume "they're all the same" unless they flatly fail a test. I do not agree with this perspective. I believe a simple visual inspection by a qualified individual would point out MANY differences in manufacturer's products that are not addressed in many AT reviews.

It is my opinion, that an ASUS or an ABit board, (re)designed, tested and supported 'in-house' is a tangible benefit and you are getting what you pay for (within limits). It isn't just a name you pay more for.

But even with all this said, I like and find very helpful the AT reviews and hope they never end. With an AT review in mind and a trip to the store to actually see the component in question, aided with the experiences posted here.... we at AT have great resources at our disposal to make great buying decisions.

The components manufactured by licensed companies are in the vast majority of cases very functional and will make for a happy customer.... I just don't tend to agree that (in general) is is going to be the highest quality hardware available.

YMMV
-Sid

 

[Zepper]

... "leaking caps aren't mobo mfrs' fault." Well, yes it largely is. They obviously didn't do accelerated life tests on samples of those critical components before using them in production runs. It's a mfr's responsibility NOT to take the word of suppliers - especially those that were chosen on PRICE. It's called "due diligence." Now Abit claims to have solved their problem by "using only Japanese capacitors." Well that doesn't cut it either - even the best like Nichicon and Sanyo can run a bad batch. Every batch of critical components should be sampled and tested.
.bh.

 

[Dug]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
First, the MSI S939 board won top honours from this site, and now they're reccomending one for Socket-A when clearly the Asus and Abit boards are the best.

Get a load of this quote from the article:

Reliability of the MSI boards has been very good in our experience.

What's their "experience"? A day or so to test the board and then ship it back to MSI? Some reliability test. :roll:

Seriously, what's the deal here? MSI has been caught using defective capacitors in their motherboards, and as far as I know their quality control remains poor.

I've lost faith in AT as a motherboard review site.

I've built three machines with that the MSI K7N2GM2-LSR . They are easy to configure, inexpensive, quiet, and have all the features. I got all of mine for $60 a piece from Newegg? How can you claim the Asus and Abit are better than that particular board?

It's an entry level recommendation and a very good one. Not the "best super duper I can spend $40 more so I can overclock 5 Mhz more than you can" board.

 

[Insidious]

Originally posted by: Zepper
... "leaking caps aren't mobo mfrs' fault." Well, yes it largely is. They obviously didn't do accelerated life tests on samples of those critical components before using them in production runs. It's a mfr's responsibility NOT to take the word of suppliers - especially those that were chosen on PRICE. It's called "due diligence." Now Abit claims to have solved their problem by "using only Japanese capacitors." Well that doesn't cut it either - even the best like Nichicon and Sanyo can run a bad batch. Every batch of critical components should be sampled and tested.
.bh.

It is a shame that less and less responsibility for this kind of quality assurance is being assumed. I admit, it is a bit of a mystery why you single out ABit, but your point is well taken.

A corner cut and quality deprived.... just a shame.

This is one of the reasons I am shy about some board manufacturers. Some manufacturers analyze a reference design with cost elimination as a primary goal. For other manufacturers, cost elimination is a secondary goal with functional enhancement as the primary focus of "design tweaks".

I have come to believe that the branded designs (Asus, ABit, Gygabite, soyo, etc....) give me the better chance of deviations from a 'reference design' that are in MY best interest... not only to serve the profits of the manufacturer.

I acknowledge that I may be operating under some false assumptions/hopes, but I would rather pay a little more for a board that will continue to function over the long haul...

-Sid

 

[Zepper]

I single out Abit because they make a big deal on the front of their boxes about it. I quote from the box of my new KW7: "100% Japanese capacitors for Best Quality." It was just a convenient case in point...
You see, it didn't stop me from buying an Abit (or two). I also have a VA-10 in another box here. So right now I'm 100% Abit. And the two MSI and the three Asus I've had thru here in the last couple of years have also been trouble free. But I hardly keep mobos around long enough any more for problems like leaky capacitors to develop. .
.bh.

:moon:

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: BentValve

continually reccomend

Its continually recommend.


Sorry but someone who cannot spell or more importantly at least take the time out to find the correct
spelling is probably the same guy who does not read the manual before installing a motherboard or at
least refer to the manual when a problem occurs.

Yeah and someone with your personality type typically doesn't have many friends. :thumbsdown:

 

[nick1985]

msi = :thumbsdown: for me

 

[Texun]

I've only had one MSI and that was a few years ago. It ran like a champ for about 8 months and then went south on me. No more MSI boards for me.

It's a love it or hate it thing. If you have good luck you tend to praise that product. Seagate is a perfect example: Tons of people swear by them while I wouldn't have one. I know they make good drives, they just never made one for me. I've had 4 out of 5 die either out of the box or within a year while at least a dozen WD and Maxtors are still chugging away with one bad drive out of the bunch within 3 years. Does that mean Seagate makes a bad drive? No. However, experience pushes me away from them when looking for a new HD. Same goes with MSI. There's no way they could make a bad product and stay in business. People just gravitate toward what makes them feel good. I like ASUS and especially Abit boards. Many users of both have no doubt had bad experience with them and stick with some other brand. I drive a Chevy and others drive Fords. There is no one best board but there are many opinions. There always will be.

 

[Andres3605]

o well i must say my MSI NEO PLATINUM was a hand picked one or a golden sample, why?, not a single problem related to the mother board EXCELLENT overclock , nice features, very stable, 24/7 for couple months, also primed 36 hours with no errors, i just needed the pc, i just think every brand even the most trusted ones (Asus, Abit,DFI....) have a bad capacitor once in a while.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Thegonagle
What was the brand of defective motherboard that brought down AT a couple of years ago? (I hope it wasn't MSI! I can't remember though.)

It was MSI K7T boards IIRC.

 

[Cerb]

...because they don't deal with them?
The reviewer typically goes by features and performance. W/o OCing, they rarely have problems. Most PCs will not have problems. However, when every few MSIs has trouble, and no ECS or Gigabyte ones do, even if they have 0.5% less performance and couple less onboard goodies, we tend to switch.
Of MSI, I've only experienced one problem that occured within the first three months of operation. That's why I'm staying away. It's OK if it dies in 3-4 years. Really. But 6 months to a year?

(BTW, my issue was in fact with K7T Pro2(A) boards that gradually died)

Also, DaveSimmons, much later, Tom's did tests to verify that occured.

 

[dswesse]

To all of those who think that the leaking caps don't happen to all manufacturers, I have a couple of the first Gigabyte Socket A boards who would beg to disagree. This is one of the reasons I went to MSI for almost all my personal and commercial system building a year or so ago. I'm currently running the Neo2 Platnum and while it has been a little difficult to setup (which says somthing since I'm an electrical and computer engineer and have some knowledge of these things) but overall I cannot complain about anything except for nVidia's Raid monitoring system which seems to crash from time to time on boot. Have MSI's boards typically been the most user friendly I've setup? No, in fact some of them have been almost a pain in the ass, but my end user will rarely do more than reinstall windows from time to time and the setup, once done will never have to be done again. Price is good, haven't had any leaking caps, and only RMA'ed 1 board out of a few dozen different ones, I can't complain.

 

[Mem]

It's OK if it dies in 3-4 years. Really. But 6 months to a year?

(BTW, my issue was in fact with K7T Pro2(A) boards that gradually died)

Also, DaveSimmons, much later, Tom's did tests to verify that occured.

My experience has been pretty good,MSI K7T Pro died after 3 years of use( died after I sold it to a friend), and later my Epox 8KHA+ developed 11 leaking caps after 18 months,however all my boards including the MSI,Epox have been stable right up until the replacement time.

I would buy MSI,Epox again,buying a motherboard that`s DOA or goes faulty will always happen,no brand/model is RMA proof ,even Asus can`t guarantee that,infact I know somebody that had 3 dead ASUS boards in a row,bottom line is I always keep my options open(brand wise) when it comes to buying a motherboard and always use quality parts for PSU,ram etc...regardless of the board in question.

I have used a lot of brands over the years like Abit,MSI,QDI,ECS,DFI,Epox etc... and can say all have been very stable,you`ll always get somebody that does not like a certain brand or has bad experiences but it`ll always happen,btw I also had an AMD cpu go faulty after 6 weeks but that does not stop me from buying AMD still.

FYI Abit had the worst leaking capacitor problem, that`s why they were one of the first to change capacitor brands and actually do something postive in that department,but as I`ve already stated in my previous post virtually all brands were effected by leaking caps to a point.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Mem
bottom line is I always keep my options open(brand wise) when it comes to buying a motherboard and always use quality parts for PSU,ram etc...regardless of the board in question.

A sound way of thinking.
I'm mostly the same, except with motherboards where I will go Asus in 95% of the cases, not out of bias or something, but rather because I'm familiar with them, their BIOS layout/settings, manuals, website, tools, etc etc.
I'm willing to pay a little extra or sacrifice a feature or two for that.

I went with an Epox 8KHA+ though after all the rave reviews it got, now that was a mistake.
Got 3 of them alltogether, one died, had to be replaced, and the northbridge fans died on all of them.