Why does everybody say wait for nforce4 ?

[AWhackWhiteBoy]

I've noticed all of anand has an agenda again MSI, which i don't understand. What wrong with MSI? I've never had a problem with their stuff, various motherboards and graphics cards. Its all around quality stuff. I just don't get it.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Waiting for... real mobo makers to jump in. ASUS/DFI/ABIT do not make a NF3 939 board. (makes you wonder a bit IMO) These are the top dog makers. All we have in 939 NF3 is crap MSI, and LOL, it's touted as the best. No thanks.


The other 939 alternative is via which has a bad rap (mostly unfounded) so many stay away.

There is also an Epox and a Gigabyte, which are OK, but you are right, they are not on top. I would probably try one of them, but after Anand gave the award to MSI, I might actually try it ! (even though I have had nothing but bad experiences with them) But it better have a good bios !

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: AWhackWhiteBoy
I've noticed all of anand has an agenda again MSI, which i don't understand. What wrong with MSI? I've never had a problem with their stuff, various motherboards and graphics cards. Its all around quality stuff. I just don't get it.

Oh I might try another MSI in 939 plat hoewver Both my MSI were crap. the 754 neo wouold'nt even run stock mem speed. With others similair stuff they report.

They have been class action sued for thier leaky caps...they catch fire... enthusisats reports lots of reasons like pickyness and variing quality. But ya maybe some snowball effect too which accounts for thier bad rap. But in general they don't use high quality components like the three I mentioned.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
OK, my list below:
1) most people here don't want to spend $600,$500, and many even $400 on a video card.
2) AGP is the same speed as PCI Express (single slot)
3) nforce3 has all the feature most people want, except a few want SLI
4) 2 SLI cards are only 160-180% of one card in performance.
5) nforce4 is guaranteed to be more than nforce3 in price.

So for the majority of people, what does this buy them ? Like if they don't want to spend $400 in a 6800GT, why buy 2 6600GT (or whatever) for $500-$600 ? Doesn;t make any sense to me. And yes, I read all the nifty features of nforce4 on the review, but what else buys us anything ? 2 channel SATA at 300 ? I can get U320 SCSI in one disk that will probably beat a raid0 300 SATA, and maybe even for the same price ! (just not as much disk space)

So list what everybody but the rich people will get from nforce4 that nforce3 doesn't get them, I want to know, maybe I missed the boat.

Says the guy with dual opterons. :laugh:

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: AWhackWhiteBoy
I've noticed all of anand has an agenda again MSI, which i don't understand. What wrong with MSI? I've never had a problem with their stuff, various motherboards and graphics cards. Its all around quality stuff. I just don't get it.

I had to RMA a MSI 655 Max motherboard 6 times to newegg before i gave up because shipping costs were surpassing the boards price.

Every one they sent me was a different board, i made small marks on the boxes so i could tell the difference.

Where was QC on that one over at MSI?

 

[rileychris]

What SLI means for the "Value Consumer." Ok so the way I see it is this: I can buy a middle of the row value PCI-E card now and then when i need to upgrade my card I just add a 2nd value PCI-E card. Rahter than ever buying the $500 top of the line. Then eventually I get a 3rd and sell off the first. SO I that leaves me with a 6600 GT bought today ($200). And a year from now I add a 8600 GT (or whatever they will call it). And then I can still use my old card 6600 and get say 50-80% of the performance out of it as the second sli card versus sellling it for probably 30% of original cost. This is my thought on the matter.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Markfw900
OK, my list below:
1) most people here don't want to spend $600,$500, and many even $400 on a video card.
2) AGP is the same speed as PCI Express (single slot)
3) nforce3 has all the feature most people want, except a few want SLI
4) 2 SLI cards are only 160-180% of one card in performance.
5) nforce4 is guaranteed to be more than nforce3 in price.

So for the majority of people, what does this buy them ? Like if they don't want to spend $400 in a 6800GT, why buy 2 6600GT (or whatever) for $500-$600 ? Doesn;t make any sense to me. And yes, I read all the nifty features of nforce4 on the review, but what else buys us anything ? 2 channel SATA at 300 ? I can get U320 SCSI in one disk that will probably beat a raid0 300 SATA, and maybe even for the same price ! (just not as much disk space)

So list what everybody but the rich people will get from nforce4 that nforce3 doesn't get them, I want to know, maybe I missed the boat.

Says the guy with dual opterons. :laugh:

So why would YOU wait for nforce4, or would you ? reasons. I don;t understand why when a college student on a budget wants a gaming computer NOW, everybody says "wait for nforce4" Thats the question.

 

[jose]

So what is wrong w/ being rich ?? ppl do buy diff. type cars ie. Accord, BMW M3 both get you there.... But one is alot more fun to drive .

Who wouldn't want this mobo w/ 2 opteron 250's & 6800GT in SLI :
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp...40911/image/niwd7.html

Regards,
Jose

 

[SonicIce]

Buying two 6800U's now would be such a waste of money. A little birdie told me that NV50 will eat dual 6800U's.

 

[jose]

Well there you go, just wait and get 2 NV50's ....

Regards,
Jose

 

[nitromullet]

I think if you're going to look at what people should upgrade to, you have to know what kind of user they are. Most people who build their own systems fall into one of the following categorires:

1) Do-it-yourselfer: Generally, value minded, upgrades the entire system at once. For this user, I would recommend going with a good socket754 setup. The motherboards and cpu's are decently priced and offer great performance. They should stick with AGP for now and move to PCIe next time they upgrade. nForce3 and VIA chipsets are the way to go.

2) Overclockers: Most of the time the parts that overclock well and give the best bang for the buck will dictate what they will buy. The Sempron and lower clocked A64's look to be good overclockers as well as Northwood P4's in the mid 2Ghz range. These choices are only available in AGP at the moment, since the nForce3, VIA, and i865 are the choice chipsets for these platforms. I consider the overclocker a special hybrid of the do-it-yourselfer and the enthusiast, since they might also dabble in higher end gear, but most tend to buy mid to low range parts and tweak them to high end performance.

3) Enthusiasts: The enthusiast likes to upgrade and isn't afraid to spend some money on their rig, but not to the extreme. Generally, they get the faster off the shelf parts when they are fairly new, but aren't really good overclockers yet. The idea is that a little extra money will provide them with a fast enough system that will not need to be overclocked. This user buys a motherboard with the idea in mind that they will most likely upgrade the cpu and graphics card before they get a new motherboard. For this group, nForce4 is a good recommendation, it will allow for future cpu and graphics card upgrades to keep the system in the high end. The possibilty of adding a second video card in SLI after the prices drop for the current generation is also a bonus.

4) Ultra Extreme FX Platinum Edition Enthusiast: This is self explanitory. spending over $1200 on video cards!!!

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: SonicIce
Buying two 6800U's now would be such a waste of money. A little birdie told me that NV50 will eat dual 6800U's.

A little ferret told me NV50 will destroy NV40. A little gecko told me NV40 would much on NV30. A little Belgian boy and his 15-year old loveslave with webbed feet told me NV30 would kick NV20's @ss. And so on...

Every new major generation trounces the previous one; it's the law of progress. However, it's pointless to be handicapped forever because something better is coming out in a year (or more).

Dualcore will mop the floor with single core in time, and it's supposedly under a year off. Does that mean everyone should hold off and not buy a new CPU setup?


The kind of people who can afford to buy two $600 6800U PCI-e cards are the kind of people who won't terribly miss $1200. If they want to spend their money, what's to stop em?

Also, the amount by which NV50 will "eat dual 6800U's" is proportionate to the length of time before it's public release (and god willing, not a paper launch. If NV50 shows up next spring, I highly doubt it will destroy two 6800U's. If it shows up more realistically next fall and then gets delayed by 2-4 months like everything else right now, then I would expect it to favour quite well vs current gen.

 

[Xatrix]

Originally posted by: Concillian

I think the primary person who is looking forward to nForce4 is someone who has:
an nForce2 board (AthlonXP)
an older video card like a 9500 Pro, 9700, or 9700 Pro

and is looking to upgrade BOTH to something that will last like their AXP/and 2 generation old video card has.

Or someone like me, who is running a Athlon 1200 & 512 RAM w/ a GeForce 4 .... LOL

 

[jose]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think if you're going to look at what people should upgrade to, you have to know what kind of user they are. Most people who build their own systems fall into one of the following categorires:

1) Do-it-yourselfer: Generally, value minded, upgrades the entire system at once. For this user, I would recommend going with a good socket754 setup. The motherboards and cpu's are decently priced and offer great performance. They should stick with AGP for now and move to PCIe next time they upgrade. nForce3 and VIA chipsets are the way to go.

2) Overclockers: Most of the time the parts that overclock well and give the best bang for the buck will dictate what they will buy. The Sempron and lower clocked A64's look to be good overclockers as well as Northwood P4's in the mid 2Ghz range. These choices are only available in AGP at the moment, since the nForce3, VIA, and i865 are the choice chipsets for these platforms. I consider the overclocker a special hybrid of the do-it-yourselfer and the enthusiast, since they might also dabble in higher end gear, but most tend to buy mid to low range parts and tweak them to high end performance.

3) Enthusiasts: The enthusiast likes to upgrade and isn't afraid to spend some money on their rig, but not to the extreme. Generally, they get the faster off the shelf parts when they are fairly new, but aren't really good overclockers yet. The idea is that a little extra money will provide them with a fast enough system that will not need to be overclocked. This user buys a motherboard with the idea in mind that they will most likely upgrade the cpu and graphics card before they get a new motherboard. For this group, nForce4 is a good recommendation, it will allow for future cpu and graphics card upgrades to keep the system in the high end. The possibilty of adding a second video card in SLI after the prices drop for the current generation is also a bonus.

4) Ultra Extreme FX Platinum Edition Enthusiast: This is self explanitory. spending over $1200 on video cards!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do think that the ppl in the "Enthusiasts" do overclock well and are the ppl that buy the best up to a point & try to get the most of their systems. ie ppl who use water cooling or hardware raid cntrls. etc.

Put me down as a 3.5

Regards,
Jose

 

[suave3747]

I know why I am waiting for nForce 4...

My pc right now is an Athlon 1000, which I bought right when it came out in April of 2000. I have 512mb of PC-100 SDRAM. I have a PCI Radeon 9200 that I just bought 5 months ago, and it was the best card available for me at the time because my GeForce 4 card burnt out. At that time I was introduced to the painful realization that there really are no more cards made for AGP 1.0 slots anymore, so all the newest AGP cards won't fit in there. I bought that GeForce 4 card about 2-3 years ago, when it was the 2nd best card available.

Knowing that video cards can have as short a lifespan as 2 years, why would I buy an AGP 8x card right now when I know that there will not be any more AGP cards made after the end of this year? AGP is done, and it would be silly to get an AGP mainboard right now knowing that in a year or so the availability of them will be slim to none.

I think that THE system to get right now is:

90nm Athlon 3200+ S939
nForce 4 SLI board
1 ghz crucial ballistix or OCZ 3200
1 PCI-e GeForce 6800 GT or Ultra

Overclock the 3200+ to FX-55 speed, put the gpu in and buy another one in a year when 6800GT cards are down to $200, and you have a really nice system to last you a few years.

There are some trends in the PC industry that last a long time, and there are some that only last a short while.

PCI-e is going to be one of the trends that last a lot longer.

PCI-e is one trend I don't want to miss the boat on.

I know that you will always miss the boat on something thats right around the corner, but I've been looking into buying a new PC for months now, and this is the move I am waiting for.

 

[Xatrix]

Originally posted by: suave3747


90nm Athlon 3200+ S939
nForce 4 SLI board
1 ghz crucial ballistix or OCZ 3200
1 PCI-e GeForce 6800 GT or Ultra

Overclock the 3200+ to FX-55 speed, put the gpu in and buy another one in a year when 6800GT cards are down to $200, and you have a really nice system to last you a few years.

Good points I think. I am in the same boat as you, I am using an old Athlon 1200 w/ a geforce 4 in it. It grinds when I try to play anything remotely new. Granted it can still pump out good frames on, say, UT2k3

Hehe.

So why go with the 90nm Athlon 3200+ S939?

Why not go for the FX55? What is the biggest difference here? Can you OC the 3200+ on air?

Im freaking scared poopless about watercooling any system.

 

[FinalFantasy]

Here it is plain and simple...

NF4-SLi mobo - $150
S939 AMD64 90nm CPU - $190
6600GT GPU - $170 (Use 2 in SLi mode if you want for 60-80% performance boost!)
Crucial DDR550 PC4400 CAS2.5 2x512 - $330

...then overclock it

Finding something cheaper or comparable in price that can overclock and perform like this system can...umm, none

1. NF4 can overclock better then NF3 chipsets (just wait for benchies to come, I guarantee it)
2. NF4 gives you PCI-E, which has THE best price to performance ratio GPU's, these GPU's are PCI-E native and can not be used on an AGP mobo (6600's, X700's, X600's, X300's)
3. S939 + PCI-E mobo's give you a future upgrade option
4. NF4 gives you a lot of bios/software options that overclockers use
5. A S754 NF3 mobo w/a AMD64 Newcastle is going to cost just as much as the above set up...WHY NOT GO S939 NF4 w/a Winchester?!?!

I am not saying going S754 NF3 mobo is a bad set up...in fact it's an awesome set up...but you can't neglect the improvements done to the NF4 mobo's and even the S939 90nm's and also the price.

 

[Dacalo]

Originally posted by: FinalFantasy
Here it is plain and simple...

NF4-SLi mobo - $150
S939 AMD64 90nm CPU - $190
6600GT GPU - $170 (Use 2 in SLi mode if you want for 60-80% performance boost!)
Crucial DDR550 PC4400 CAS2.5 2x512 - $330

...then overclock it

Finding something cheaper or comparable in price that can overclock and perform like this system can...umm, none

1. NF4 can overclock better then NF3 chipsets (just wait for benchies to come, I guarantee it)
2. NF4 gives you PCI-E, which has THE best price to performance ratio GPU's, these GPU's are PCI-E native and can not be used on an AGP mobo (6600's, X700's, X600's, X300's)
3. S939 + PCI-E mobo's give you a future upgrade option
4. NF4 gives you a lot of bios/software options that overclockers use
5. A S754 NF3 mobo w/a AMD64 Newcastle is going to cost just as much as the above set up...WHY NOT GO S939 NF4 w/a Winchester?!?!

I am not saying going S754 NF3 mobo is a bad set up...in fact it's an awesome set up...but you can't neglect the improvements done to the NF4 mobo's and even the S939 90nm's and also the price.

Why not get cheaper ram around $150 and get a faster cpu? Even with cheaper ram, you will still be able to overclock.

2. You are wrong when you say the GPU cannot be used in AGP environment. NVIDIA is planning 6600GTs for AGP with a bridge. I am not sure about ATI's plan.

 

[imported_SLIM]

For all those waiting on nforce 4 like me, here is a nice link
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44016

SLIM

 

[Xatrix]

Thanks for the Link. That DFI card looks pretty nice =)

 

[imported_DangerMouse]

I only hope new Nforce4 mobos will have much less issues than current nforce3/via ones.
This Forum is choke full of horror stories about Gigabyte k8snxp-939 with memory compatibility issues, Msi neo platinum 2 of bad quality, Abit a8v which hates Antec PSU's etc etc.
I would prefer they release new mobos with 1 month delay but make them reliable product.

 

[cowdog]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
3) nforce3 has all the feature most people want, except a few want SLI

I simply want more nForce3 250 socket 939 motherboards options. Right now it is the MSI or Epox, period. MSI seems OK and I have not heard anything good about the Epox, sadly. If there were DFI, Asus, or Abit nForce3 socket 939 motherboards, I am sure I could find one I was willing to buy. I have the Asus A8V DLX socket 939 board, and although it is a very nice board, I have this going thing for nForce boards, having owned nForce2, nForce3 150 Skt 754, and nForce3 250 Skt 754. All have overclocked well. The A8V doesn't overclock well at all (revision 1.x board, however).

Waiting for nForce4 may not offer much beyond nForce3, but it seems we will have an nForce4 board from just about all the motherboard makers. However, I have not desire to buy a new video card to replace my 6800, which is a great video card for my needs. That's the hitch.

 

[imported_Achilles]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
OK, my list below:
1) most people here don't want to spend $600,$500, and many even $400 on a video card.
2) AGP is the same speed as PCI Express (single slot)
3) nforce3 has all the feature most people want, except a few want SLI
4) 2 SLI cards are only 160-180% of one card in performance.
5) nforce4 is guaranteed to be more than nforce3 in price.

So for the majority of people, what does this buy them ? Like if they don't want to spend $400 in a 6800GT, why buy 2 6600GT (or whatever) for $500-$600 ? Doesn;t make any sense to me. And yes, I read all the nifty features of nforce4 on the review, but what else buys us anything ? 2 channel SATA at 300 ? I can get U320 SCSI in one disk that will probably beat a raid0 300 SATA, and maybe even for the same price ! (just not as much disk space)

So list what everybody but the rich people will get from nforce4 that nforce3 doesn't get them, I want to know, maybe I missed the boat.

Maybe my upgrade/overclock plan for the next couple years will help clarify this for you. Keep in mind I'm a gamer, and I don't plan on taking anything out of my current system.

December 04 / January 05- Buy: nf4 SLI board, a64 3200+ 90nm, gainward 6800 gt gs, 1 gig crucial ballistix, 160 gb HD, nec 3500, coolermaster case, 550w power supply, 19" crt, and a few other little things. $1700 - $2000.

A year or so from now- Framerates aren't great in new games. OC the 3200+ as far as possible, probably around 2.6 ghz. Buy another 6800 GT ($250 by then?) Back in business for $250.

Two years from now- Framerates are low again, but this time I think my bottleneck isn't the GPU. Upgrade to the current midrange a64 s939. Buy two more 512 sticks of ballistix. Overclock everything. $500.

By buying the Nforce4 sli board now, my graphics card upgrade after the inital purchase will be around $250 for the next few years. The other option is to buy $400 cards as they come out, which could add up to $800 or $1200 by the time my 6800 GTs in SLI are outdated. This plan *should* give me satisfactory framerates in all the games for the next few years for $2400 - $2700.

 

[Adn4n]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Adn4n
But the 939s do not add much performance over a cheaper 754, and VIA is dead to me. Nforce 4 is the only viable option of the 3.

OK, again, nforce3 and nforce4 are BOTH for socket 939. So what does nforce4 buy you personally ?

Geez, I know that Nforce 3 is out for 939, but I don't see the advantages of 939 Nforce 3 over Nforce 3 754, which perform equally. Dual Channel does not increase performance much., and didn't a socket 754 beat a 939 Nforce 3 in performance? Nforce 4 is the only viable option in my opinion on the 939 platform, since it's the only thing that would offer better performance, particularly in gaming, because of SLI. But, I still wouldn't go 939 over 754. SLI is too expensive, and DDR2 support isn't there yet. I'm one of those people that like to upgrade everything, as in build a new rig. 754 gives you the most for your buck, and the boards are matured. As Zebo mentioned before, the top board makers, though I've had bad experiences with DFI's boards prior to the Nforce 3 lanparty, have not made 939 Nforce 3 boards yet, which leads me to conclude that 754 is the best option; and I repeat, I'd prefer Nforce 4 over Nforce 3 939, but not over Nforce 3 754. Happy now?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Adn4n


Geez, I know that Nforce 3 is out for 939, but I don't see the advantages of 939 Nforce 3 over Nforce 3 754, which perform equally. Dual Channel does not increase performance much., and didn't a socket 754 beat a 939 Nforce 3 in performance?

I don't think skt 754 is beating 939 DC in performance anywhere now. Just have a look at Anand's summary on the topic Text

From our standpoint, the recommendation for Socket-939 is clear, although rest assured that if you are on a budget you can get away with Socket-939-like performance with a Socket-754 platform in certain performance categories. Although workstation users will definitely want to spring for the 939 platforms, and with the introduction of the new 90nm Socket-939 parts, the platform should become even more affordable. It's worth going down one speed grade in order to get a Socket-939 platform in our opinion, not only for the small to reasonable performance improvements but also because of the much safer upgrade path.

It depends what you use most but for workstation 17% average qualifies as a smackdown in my book and the platform wins almost every test. With cheaper skt939 CPUs arriving all that is needed is a better selection of boards.