Why does Intel care less about power-saving on the desktop than mobile?

[VirtualLarry]

That's another way of saying, why do Intel desktop chips only go down to 1.6Ghz, when their mobile chips go down to 800Mhz.

Not to mention, Haswell's C6 sleep state on desktop is basically non-existant.

 

[phexac]

Because desktops have a big fat power cord that plugs into the wall. Was this a serious question?

 

[Brinson]

Why does GE care more about the lumens generated by their lightbulbs than their toasters?

 

[evident]

Because desktops have a big fat power cord that plugs into the wall. Was this a serious question?

dupe

 

[evident]

Because desktops have a big fat power cord that plugs into the wall. Was this a serious question?

OP has a point. Think about how much energy could be saved across the globe if they were able to get idle power even lower on desktops.

 

[RU482]

Why does GE care more about the lumens generated by their lightbulbs than their toasters?

lol, I like that

 

[Revolution 11]

That's another way of saying, why do Intel desktop chips only go down to 1.6Ghz, when their mobile chips go down to 800Mhz.

Not to mention, Haswell's C6 sleep state on desktop is basically non-existant.

Now I am confused. My i5-4670K goes down to 800Mhz, according to CPU-Z.

 

[Brinson]

OP has a point. Think about how much energy could be saved across the globe if they were able to get idle power even lower on desktops.

Then you could just buy a mobile processor SOC and use it. That's basically what you'd get anyway. Look at the J1900 which is kind of a hybrid, mobile tech but in a desktop form factor.

 

[bononos]

That's another way of saying, why do Intel desktop chips only go down to 1.6Ghz, when their mobile chips go down to 800Mhz.

Not to mention, Haswell's C6 sleep state on desktop is basically non-existant.

I think 1.6Ghz was the idle speed for Sandy/Ivy. Haswell idles even lower at 800Mhz.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Well, if you got an unlocked processor (that new Pentium perhaps), you're more than welcome to underclock and undervolt to your heart's content. Or grab an Atom board.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Now I am confused. My i5-4670K goes down to 800Mhz, according to CPU-Z.

I think 1.6Ghz was the idle speed for Sandy/Ivy. Haswell idles even lower at 800Mhz.

Hmm, interesting. Guess that they fixed this issue for Haswell.

I don't have any Haswell CPUs.

What prompted my query is that my 1007U laptop goes down to 800Mhz in CoreTemp, while my G1610 mini-ITX HTPC only goes down to 1600Mhz.

Guess I should replace it with a Haswell CPU if I want something lower-power?

 

[evident]

Then you could just buy a mobile processor SOC and use it. That's basically what you'd get anyway. Look at the J1900 which is kind of a hybrid, mobile tech but in a desktop form factor.

I'd prefer not to gouge my eyes out while computing, to be an atom or that j1900 will be too slow to me for daily use. I always thought my i3 3225 was pretty efficient, but I always thought it could idle lower.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Not sure anyway how much power would be saved from lowering the idle frequency from 1600 to 800 mhz. Isn't most of the idle power used by the psu, motherboard and other components?

It does bring to mind though the question of why they dont bring optimus to the desktop. I think this would perhaps save even more power. I cant believe it would add that much cost if it were made standard across the board.

 

[2is]

One is powered by a battery with a finite amount of energy, and thus, a finite amout of run time.

The other is not and will have energy and runtime until you run out of money to pay your utility company or until it fails.

Seems like a rather obvious answer no?

 

[2is]

Guess I should replace it with a Haswell CPU if I want something lower-power?

No, you absolutely shouldn't. You will never recoup the cost of the CPU through the infinitesimal amount of energy savings by being at a slightly lower clock speed. When you actually need an upgrade, then get yourself whatever is the most efficient CPU you can find that's powerful enough to meet your needs.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Hmm, interesting. Guess that they fixed this issue for Haswell.

I don't have any Haswell CPUs.

What prompted my query is that my 1007U laptop goes down to 800Mhz in CoreTemp, while my G1610 mini-ITX HTPC only goes down to 1600Mhz.

Guess I should replace it with a Haswell CPU if I want something lower-power?

Its silly to replace it just to save 1-3W in idle.

I bet you save more just getting a PSU with higher efficiency than doing anything else. Or maybe even a different mobo.

However all of them would just be silly for any idle savings.

 

[BSim500]

Haswell's idle at 800MHz, Ivy & Sandy Bridge at 1600MHz. If set up properly with an appropriate matching PSU (ie sub 500w), desktop's can be very efficient. If I remove my discrete GFX card (about 10w idle), I can get my i5-3570 down from 35w to just 24-25w idle and that's idling at 1.6GHz. Many mini-ITX + Haswell based Pentium / i3 + a single stick of low-voltage RAM & 1x SSD + efficient 60-160w PSU are sub 20w idle. And that's the "big cores" - the Atom's are almost into single digits. Likewise, below a certain level, a laptop's screen + motherboard + HDD draws more than its CPU when idle.

A lot of it is also PSU dependent, ie, if you have a 1000w PSU, then a 30w idle will be 3% load, and efficiency at those figures are pretty poor often down to just 60-70%, ie, 30w DC @ 60-70% efficiency = pulling 43-50w AC at the wall. Conversely, with a much lower wattage PSU of 80-90% efficiency at 30w load will be nearer 33-38w AC at the wall. This is partly why you see "special" reviewers of Mini-ITX rigs testing it with 1200w PSU's moaning about high idle power get rightfully bashed... Of top of that, some motherboards can draw up to 15w more than others. LED monitors can draw 10-15w less vs older LCD with CCFL lamps at same brightness, etc. 2.5" HDD's can draw 3-4w less than 3.5" drives (and 5,400rpm less than 7,200rpm, etc). TV cards for HTPC's can draw up to 6w each. LoVo (1.25v) RAM vs standard 1.5-1.65v can be 2-3w per stick difference, etc. Add on any USB devices plugged in permanently (hubs, desk lamps, speakers, etc).

Total idle power consumption is really an appraisal of every component in the system, and it's really not worth replacing an Ivy Bridge with a Haswell (or standard RAM with LoVo, etc) purely for that purpose, as if you aren't overclocking you could mimick the same effect by undervolting (-0.05 to -0.1 offset lowers the idle voltage too), and you certainly wouldn't get your money back on a 2-5w difference in any reasonable time-frame. Best thing is to hang on until you upgrade, then when you do, make a point of picking reasonably priced green components / choose motherboards which draw the least, etc.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The rig in question is my HTPC, and it's a G1610 in an ECS H61 mini-ITX mobo, with a 120W power-brick (like a laptop one, but a bit bigger).

 

[Flapdrol1337]

Even sandy and ivy bridge use only a couple watt in idle. I've seen blogs with a system under 10W idle from the wall.

You already have the right kind of psu, some other big factors for lowest idle are supposedly the motherboard (some waste a lot powering all the extra features), ssd choice, operating system (must use all the power states) and drivers (must also support all the power states, of the ssd for instance).

 

[ShintaiDK]

And its always a good thing to measure the powerdraw from the wall if you are worried about the consumption.

 

[jihe]

Because you're just not going to notice a lot of difference.

 

[BSim500]

The rig in question is my HTPC, and it's a G1610 in an ECS H61 mini-ITX mobo, with a 120W power-brick (like a laptop one, but a bit bigger).

Do you have a "kill a watt" device that measures it at the wall? If so, what idle figure's are you seeing that make it seem high? If you've got a locked G1610 you can't OC, then make the most of it by undervolting (negative offset not fixed) which can virtually close most of the "gap" you're worried about. Example : Many stock Haswell's idle at 800MHz @ 0.7v, and many Ivy Bridge's idle at 1600Mhz @ 0.8v out of the box (which can work out to 5-10w difference) yet my i5-3570 can still run at 1.6GHz idle state undervolted down to 0.65v at which point there's barely 1-2w difference between it and a Haswell @ 800MHz which is well within the margin of error of two identical model CPU / motherboard / PSU. It's certainly a lot more cost effective than selling & rebuying a CPU + motherboard purely for 1-2 watts.

 

[mrmt]

That's another way of saying, why do Intel desktop chips only go down to 1.6Ghz, when their mobile chips go down to 800Mhz.

DT Haswell does clock at 800Mhz.

Not to mention, Haswell's C6 sleep state on desktop is basically non-existant.

C6/C7 depends also of the PSU. Does your PSU support it?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Intel probably cared too much about power consumption for Haswell. That's probably the main reason why clock speeds for Haswell have remained so low.

 

[Squeetard]

Haswell's idle at 800MHz

Yeppers, my 4770k spends most of the day at 800mhz.