Why does it seem like AMD/MS/intel have aligned themselves against NV/VIA?

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Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,171
13
81
So if SLI works just fine without the NF200 chip, what purpose did it really serve except to generate an additional $30 per board for Nvidia?

From the looks of it, the motherboard industry itself basically told Nvidia where to shove the NF200:

NVIDIA originally expected OEMs to use its nForce 200 chips to enable SLI support on X58, however we heard from the very start that most motherboard manufacturers weren?t going to use the nForce 200 + Intel X58 combination. If NVIDIA wanted to offer SLI on Nehalem, it would have to open it up to all X58 motherboards, otherwise AMD could actually gain a multi-GPU advantage by being the only multi-GPU technology natively supported by Nehalem.

I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for Nvidia's SLI chips. Now that manufacturers know that they can force Nvidia to cave in, what's to stop them from doing the same for any other SLI motherboard?

Looks like 2008 just isn't Nvidia's year.
 

SilentRunning

Golden Member
Aug 8, 2001
1,493
0
76
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: SilentRunning
Originally posted by: nitromullet
Originally posted by: SilentRunning
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Oddly enough Intel saved NVIDIA's chipset business. The new NVIDIA Intel chipsets came out just as the Core 2 Duo took the world by storm, making millions for NVIDIA. AMD went up against NVIDIA by purchasing ATI and they are probably going to go out of business because of it. AMD has been bleeding billions of dollars since they purchased ATI 2 years ago. Now Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

As for Havok, right now it's only being developed for the CPU so that's not even an issue.

This is more of a FUD thread than a conspiracy theory thread.

AMD is fighting a losing battle on 2 fronts. Last quarter they only had 18% of the GPU market and Intel was delivering a similar beating in the CPU market.

To be honest I would not be surprised if AMD is not bought out, split up or both.

This is big news about SLI, got any link to reliable source stating Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

SLI will be supported on X58 provided that the motherboard also includes a NVIDIA NF200 bridge chip. This was the 'compromise' reached by Intel and NVIDIA.

Straight from NVIDIA:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1216019719164.html

New SLI motherboards will feature the NVIDIA nForce® 200 SLI processor, Intel Bloomfield CPUs, and Tylersburg (X58) chipsets. The nForce 200 SLI processor features patented SLI technology for graphics bandwidth management and multi-GPU peer-to-peer communications, both required to optimize graphics performance.

So the claim that Intel chipsets will support SLI is false. I already knew the answer but Wreckage apparently didn't.

Saw that bait coming a mile away. But maybe he just worded it poorly. X58 mobos that wish to support SLI will need the the 200 chip. The X58 chipset itself, does not support SLI.

Actually, I stand corrected. Announced at Nvision08, NATIVE support for SLI on X58 chipsets (without the bridge chips).
Surprise surprise surprise

From article:

NVIDIA originally expected OEMs to use its nForce 200 chips to enable SLI support on X58, however we heard from the very start that most motherboard manufacturers weren?t going to use the nForce 200 + Intel X58 combination.

The timing of the announcement is very last-minute. Most motherboard manufacturers weren?t even aware that NVIDIA was opening up SLI to X58 until tonight, they received phone calls shortly after NVIDIA briefed us earlier this evening.

So how did Wreckage know? As I said before this is big news, but it remains to be seen whether motherboard manufacturers who pinch pennies on capacitors will be willing to shell out the cash for Nvidia's certification/key. If they have a reasonable price for certification it will be widely adopted if for no other reason as an additional checkbox feature.



 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
I was thinking, the whole "aligned against" is looking at it wrong. Alliances are made and broken in a heartbeat here...

AMD and Intel had the whole CF in intel chipsets against nvidia. AMD and Intel each wall off into their own "platform"... nVidia AND AMD are helping NGO port physX to AMD cards to fight against larabee.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: SilentRunning
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: SilentRunning
Originally posted by: nitromullet
Originally posted by: SilentRunning
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Oddly enough Intel saved NVIDIA's chipset business. The new NVIDIA Intel chipsets came out just as the Core 2 Duo took the world by storm, making millions for NVIDIA. AMD went up against NVIDIA by purchasing ATI and they are probably going to go out of business because of it. AMD has been bleeding billions of dollars since they purchased ATI 2 years ago. Now Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

As for Havok, right now it's only being developed for the CPU so that's not even an issue.

This is more of a FUD thread than a conspiracy theory thread.

AMD is fighting a losing battle on 2 fronts. Last quarter they only had 18% of the GPU market and Intel was delivering a similar beating in the CPU market.

To be honest I would not be surprised if AMD is not bought out, split up or both.

This is big news about SLI, got any link to reliable source stating Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

SLI will be supported on X58 provided that the motherboard also includes a NVIDIA NF200 bridge chip. This was the 'compromise' reached by Intel and NVIDIA.

Straight from NVIDIA:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1216019719164.html

New SLI motherboards will feature the NVIDIA nForce® 200 SLI processor, Intel Bloomfield CPUs, and Tylersburg (X58) chipsets. The nForce 200 SLI processor features patented SLI technology for graphics bandwidth management and multi-GPU peer-to-peer communications, both required to optimize graphics performance.

So the claim that Intel chipsets will support SLI is false. I already knew the answer but Wreckage apparently didn't.

Saw that bait coming a mile away. But maybe he just worded it poorly. X58 mobos that wish to support SLI will need the the 200 chip. The X58 chipset itself, does not support SLI.

Actually, I stand corrected. Announced at Nvision08, NATIVE support for SLI on X58 chipsets (without the bridge chips).
Surprise surprise surprise

From article:

NVIDIA originally expected OEMs to use its nForce 200 chips to enable SLI support on X58, however we heard from the very start that most motherboard manufacturers weren?t going to use the nForce 200 + Intel X58 combination.

The timing of the announcement is very last-minute. Most motherboard manufacturers weren?t even aware that NVIDIA was opening up SLI to X58 until tonight, they received phone calls shortly after NVIDIA briefed us earlier this evening.

So how did Wreckage know? As I said before this is big news, but it remains to be seen whether motherboard manufacturers who pinch pennies on capacitors will be willing to shell out the cash for Nvidia's certification/key. If they have a reasonable price for certification it will be widely adopted if for no other reason as an additional checkbox feature.

How did Wreckage know what? I stood corrected about X58 supporting SLI, not about the way you interpreted his post. That is your demon to deal with.
So first, SLI on X58 was going to be cost prohibitive because of the extra 200 chip.
Then, when announced that there will be no need for the 200 chip on X58 boards, now suddenly the license might make it cost prohibitive. Anything else you can think of to make an X58 SLI board cost prohibitive? Just asking.

Oh, and it looks like Nvidia will be making chipsets for the 11xxpin (mainstream)Nehalem platform, but not the 13xx pin (Enthusiast) Nehalem platform.

While this is all pretty good news, Nehalem has not shown much improvements over Penryn in gaming. This is more for the Server/Enterprise market if anything. So, we shall see how it goes I would imagine.
 

SilentRunning

Golden Member
Aug 8, 2001
1,493
0
76
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

How did Wreckage know what? I stood corrected about X58 supporting SLI, not about the way you interpreted his post. That is your demon to deal with.
So first, SLI on X58 was going to be cost prohibitive because of the extra 200 chip.
Then, when announced that there will be no need for the 200 chip on X58 boards, now suddenly the license might make it cost prohibitive. Anything else you can think of to make an X58 SLI board cost prohibitive? Just asking.

Oh, and it looks like Nvidia will be making chipsets for the 11xxpin (mainstream)Nehalem platform, but not the 13xx pin (Enthusiast) Nehalem platform.

While this is all pretty good news, Nehalem has not shown much improvements over Penryn in gaming. This is more for the Server/Enterprise market if anything. So, we shall see how it goes I would imagine.

Obviously you are blinded if you do not understand what I mean, It was clear as day.

Did I say it was cost prohibitive because of the extra Nvidia 200 chip ... NO... you just said that. Clearly the manufacturers chose not to implement the chip or Nvidia wouldn't have done a 180 degree about face. The second grasp at the golden ring is the "certification" program. It remains to be seen whether motherboard manufacturers will walk away from this too. Only time will tell which direction motherboard manufacturers go.


 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: SilentRunning


So the claim that Intel chipsets will support SLI is false.
Is it? :laugh:

I already knew the answer but Wreckage apparently didn't.

I'm thinking you have that backwards.

The NF200 chip is for x3 and x4 configurations.
 

SilentRunning

Golden Member
Aug 8, 2001
1,493
0
76
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SilentRunning


So the claim that Intel chipsets will support SLI is false.
Is it? :laugh:

I already knew the answer but Wreckage apparently didn't.

I'm thinking you have that backwards.

The NF200 chip is for x3 and x4 configurations.

Actually, I am still right. Nvidia has merely chose not to block SLI for an "fee." Otherwise they wouldn't be charging to put a key in the motherboard bios, they would be getting their money by licensing to Intel.

 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: SilentRunning

Actually, I am still right. Nvidia has merely chose not to block SLI for an "fee." Otherwise they wouldn't be charging to put a key in the motherboard bios, they would be getting their money by licensing to Intel.

How are you right? Intel chipsets WILL SUPPORT SLI. Who cares if there is a fee to the motherboard manufacturer or a bios update.

You are probably pissed at NVIDIA for not giving away video cards. Greedy buggers. :roll:
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SilentRunning

Actually, I am still right. Nvidia has merely chose not to block SLI for an "fee." Otherwise they wouldn't be charging to put a key in the motherboard bios, they would be getting their money by licensing to Intel.

How are you right? Intel chipsets WILL SUPPORT SLI. Who cares if there is a fee to the motherboard manufacturer or a bios update.

You are probably pissed at NVIDIA for not giving away video cards. Greedy buggers. :roll:

I hope this approach fails for NVIDIA as well. There is no reason for motherboard makers and in turn customers to pay extra money for a key to enable compatibility that is already inherent in the system. Although, I doubt it will. I imagine that there will be a big enough demand for this from Alienware, Voodoo PC, etc... Not only will they want the flexibility of being able to offer systems configurable as SLI or CF, but I imagine they will actually be more than happy to pay a little extra for "SLI Certified" status.

 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SilentRunning


So the claim that Intel chipsets will support SLI is false.
Is it? :laugh:

I already knew the answer but Wreckage apparently didn't.

I'm thinking you have that backwards.

The NF200 chip is for x3 and x4 configurations.

correction, its for 16x PCIe x3 and x4...
You can have 3 or 4 operating at 8x each on the X58.

X58(CF or SLI):
1. 16x
2. 16x, 16x
3. 16x, 8x, 8x
4. 8x, 8x, 8x, 8x

X58 + NF200 (premium SLI):
1. 16x
2. 16x, 16x
3. 16x, 16x, 16x
4. 16x, 16x, 16x, 16x

3 cards requires a single NF200 chip.
4 cards requires 2 seperate NF200 chips.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,421
293
126
Originally posted by: SickBeast
That's a pretty good attempt at discrediting my theory, in the case of DX10 anyway.
NVIDIA was joint developer of the DX graphics and audio API used in XBox, which are heavily based on DX8.

Tell me this though: Have you ever known of ATI going off on a tangent like NV has done with "C for Graphics" and CUDA?
Nope, never.

From what I've read, ATI has historically worked very closely with MS since the infancy of DirectX (and by that I mean 2D). NV came into things later on, and they seem to be more of an individualistic entity than ATI (which parallels US/Canadian culture to some extent as well).
ATI would stand a better chance of being involved in early DX development than a company who did not yet exist, wouldn't you think? S3 Graphics, Matrox, and Cirrus Logic variously had significant roles in DX development prior to DX8. You might not have been into computers back when S3 Graphics, Cirrus Logic, Matrox, Paradise Systems, and Tseng Labs were more recognizable players in 2D VGA/SVGA accelerators than ATI.

VIA's a huge company; you should read up on them. They hold an X86 license and apparently have a very good processor in the Nano.
Oh, you mean that company whose Nano processor:

- has yet to ship
- would not run or complete several benchmarks (actually died on one reviewer)
- has five times the TDP of Atom while offering only 20% better performance
- was clocked 200MHz higher than Atom in said reviews (1.8GHz v. 1.6GHz), and used a higher FSB (800MHz v. 533MHz), which means it won't offer anywhere near 20% better performance at the same clocks


That VIA? Nano is only competitive now (in cyber review space against an actually available Atom) because of Intel's inexplicably stupid decision to pair the Atom with its inefficient and dated 945G chipset.
 
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