Why does it seem like AMD/MS/intel have aligned themselves against NV/VIA?

[SickBeast]

I'm posting this in video because it's the one common link among the companies I just listed.

Historically speaking, ATI (now AMD) has worked with MS on developing the new DirectX standards, whereas NV has gone off on its own and developed proprietary standards (C for Graphics and now CUDA).

Now we have intel and AMD working together on physics stuff, and NV stuck without an X86 licence, forming a new 'relationship' with VIA.

Is it just me, or does it seem like the hardware industry has more-or-less become two giant juggernauts competing with one another, colluding amongst their subsidiaries and partners?

 

[tuteja1986]

Amm... Intel is destroying AMD form CPU front and Nvidia from GPU front. AMD is doing everything and anything just to survive the ordeal.

Intel hates AMD , ATI , Nvidia and VIA :!

Every one hates Intel...

Nvidia did alot of things to annoy and piss of their partners and competitors when they got into stage where they had alot of power and influences.

They initiated new deal with their High end motherboard (680i) that their partners who would have too buy motherboard of them. They were only allowed to make small modification on them like heat sink design. Intel whoever gave their partners motherboard specification and the north and south bridge and they could manufacture the motherboard to their design as long as it followed the intel specification. This literally annoyed Asus , Gigabyte and MSI.

Then Nvidia launched the CUDA platform and made it semi open platform. Its was buy our hardware and develop who you see fit. This annoyed AMD , INTEL , IBM , SAMSUNG , SUN and load of other semiconductor company.

Some project in CUDA scare the f out of Intel and IBM because it could lead to end their enterprise solution. remember who much money did Intel and its partner put in ITANIUM platform and how it didn't live to anyone expectation.


IF i were Microsoft I would end the Physicx and CUDA war by releasing a new GPGPU API and market it as they did with DX. I think Microsoft needs to put focus on this or they will have same regret as they did with Internet search engine.

I could go on but its not worth it :! I think AMD , INTEL and MICROSOFT missed out big time and only time will tell if Nvidia can navigate the dangerous water and come out as winner. Because i think CUDA can become as big as Google Search Engine , Microsoft DX or X86 architecture.

 

[MarcVenice]

You don't make a whole lot of sense Tuteja. In fact, you're refering to CUDA as CUBA? You sound clueless, wildly speculating ...

Sickbeast, I don't think it's as much as 2 juggernauts, all those company's have different interests in different markets, that are often closely linked together, they can work together on 1 part, and be each others competitors on other parts. Microsoft doesn't quite fit in, because they are all about software. Intel and AMD colluding, when they are in fact each others 'biggest' competitors in the CPU market sounds odd, doesn't it?

BTW, I never heard about MS supporting havok? But wanting an integrated physicx api into directx11? I don't know, most of this is a little far fetched...

 

[AmberClad]

More like constantly shifting alliances.

OP, have you forgotten about AMD, Nvidia, and Via teaming up together not too long ago to beat the USB 3.0 spec out of Intel. They threatened to go off on their own and create their own spec if Intel didn't cough up the spec, asap.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986IF i were Microsoft I would end the Physicx and CUBA war by releasing a new GPGPU API and market it as they did with DX. I think Microsoft needs to put focus on this or they will have same regret as they did with Internet search engine.

Its CUDA not CUBA... and microsoft DX11 is supposed to be all about a standard physics on GPU. So your prediction is right on the money.

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: tuteja1986IF i were Microsoft I would end the Physicx and CUBA war by releasing a new GPGPU API and market it as they did with DX. I think Microsoft needs to put focus on this or they will have same regret as they did with Internet search engine.

Its CUDA not CUBA... and microsoft DX11 is supposed to be all about a standard physics on GPU. So your prediction is right on the money.

Not specifically, it *COULD* but that's a big 'if'. See this thread more specifically

New compute shader technology that lays the groundwork for the GPU to be used for more than just 3D graphics, so that developers can take advantage of the graphics card as a parallel processor

which is more likely to be a GPGPU otherwise I am sure MS would have specified 'Physics'.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: tuteja1986IF i were Microsoft I would end the Physicx and CUBA war by releasing a new GPGPU API and market it as they did with DX. I think Microsoft needs to put focus on this or they will have same regret as they did with Internet search engine.

Its CUDA not CUBA... and microsoft DX11 is supposed to be all about a standard physics on GPU. So your prediction is right on the money.

That wouldn't be out until next OS and adoption will be very slow like DX10. It will be too little and too late by then i think.

 

[Keysplayr]

These unified architecture GPU's (GPGPU's) have many functions. DirectX/OpenGL gaming cards, and their compute functionality.
These GPU's can simultaneously follow MS DirectX specifications and also OpenGL specs, and ALSO have their (alter egos) in the computational field such as CUDA based apps.

I don't think this scares any juggernaut company as much as it scares Intel. AMD at least has the potential to do the same thing Nvidia is doing with GPU computation. At least, they could be well on their way. Intel, has a lot of catching up to do, and their Larrabee is their first crack at it (we think).

 

[sandorski]

Is everyone out to get Nvidia or did Nvidia decide to get everyone else?

I think Nvidia may have become a little cocky and thought AMD/ATI was going to continue to suck in the GPU Market. So, it seemed at the time, to be in their interest to begin pushing on other fronts because they need all the advantages they can get. AMD buying ATI didn't hand the GPU Market to Nvidia, it just put Nvidia into a more precarious position. Nvidia obviously knows the position they are in and are trying their best just to survive in the longterm.

 

[Wreckage]

Oddly enough Intel saved NVIDIA's chipset business. The new NVIDIA Intel chipsets came out just as the Core 2 Duo took the world by storm, making millions for NVIDIA. AMD went up against NVIDIA by purchasing ATI and they are probably going to go out of business because of it. AMD has been bleeding billions of dollars since they purchased ATI 2 years ago. Now Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

As for Havok, right now it's only being developed for the CPU so that's not even an issue.

This is more of a FUD thread than a conspiracy theory thread.

AMD is fighting a losing battle on 2 fronts. Last quarter they only had 18% of the GPU market and Intel was delivering a similar beating in the CPU market.

To be honest I would not be surprised if AMD is not bought out, split up or both.

 

[SilentRunning]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Oddly enough Intel saved NVIDIA's chipset business. The new NVIDIA Intel chipsets came out just as the Core 2 Duo took the world by storm, making millions for NVIDIA. AMD went up against NVIDIA by purchasing ATI and they are probably going to go out of business because of it. AMD has been bleeding billions of dollars since they purchased ATI 2 years ago. Now Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

As for Havok, right now it's only being developed for the CPU so that's not even an issue.

This is more of a FUD thread than a conspiracy theory thread.

AMD is fighting a losing battle on 2 fronts. Last quarter they only had 18% of the GPU market and Intel was delivering a similar beating in the CPU market.

To be honest I would not be surprised if AMD is not bought out, split up or both.

This is big news about SLI, got any link to reliable source stating Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
BTW, I never heard about MS supporting havok? But wanting an integrated physicx api into directx11? I don't know, most of this is a little far fetched...

Microsoft has nothing to do with it really, I'm sure people are basing it on the Inq article headline that boiled down to MS' insignificant game studios signing a Havok licensing agreement. There are rumors they will be implementing a physics API into DirectX 11, with some details below.

DirectX 11 Details Emerge, Adds New Features to DX10 Hardware

by Aaron Linde Jul 22, 2008 2:03pm CST tags: DirectX, Microsoft, PC Gaming

Software giant Microsoft today revealed details concerning DirectX 11, the latest edition of its PC gaming graphics API.

Similar to DirectX 10, the software will be available only on Windows Vista and future versions of Microsoft's operating system. DirectX 11 will add new compute shader technology that Microsoft says will allow GPUs to be used "for more than just 3D graphics," allowing developers to utilize video cards as parallel processors.

DirectX 11 will support tessellation, a feature which can potentially assist developers in making models appear smoother when seen up close. Multi-threaded resource handling is also incorporated, making it easier for games to utilize multi-core processors in a user's machine.

Microsoft also disclosed that DirectX 11 will add features to existing DirectX 10-compatible hardware, though it was not immediately clear what those features may be.

A launch date for the new software was not provided, though Microsoft is expected to release more information in the near future. The bullet points, as provided by Microsoft, are listed below.

• Full support (including all DX11 hardware features) on Windows Vista as well as future versions of Windows
• Compatibility with DirectX 10 and 10.1 hardware, as well as support for new DirectX 11 hardware
• New compute shader technology that lays the groundwork for the GPU to be used for more than just 3D graphics, so that developers can take advantage of the graphics card as a parallel processor
• Multi-threaded resource handling that will allow games to better take advantage of multi-core machines
• Support for tessellation, which blurs the line between super high quality pre-rendered scenes and scenes rendered in real-time, allowing game developers to refine models to be smoother and more attractive when seen up close

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
This is more of a FUD thread than a conspiracy theory thread.

It would be nice if you wouldn't complain about FUD and then immediately post FUD of your own.

Originally posted by: Wreckage
AMD went up against NVIDIA by purchasing ATI and they are probably going to go out of business because of it.

Originally posted by: Wreckage
To be honest I would not be surprised if AMD is not bought out, split up or both.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Wreckage
This is more of a FUD thread than a conspiracy theory thread.

It would be nice if you wouldn't complain about FUD and then immediately post FUD of your own.

Originally posted by: Wreckage
AMD went up against NVIDIA by purchasing ATI and they are probably going to go out of business because of it.

Originally posted by: Wreckage
To be honest I would not be surprised if AMD is not bought out, split up or both.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38841/118/
AMD split rumors accelerating

http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/15144
AMD announces $1.2-billion loss

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: SilentRunning

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Oddly enough Intel saved NVIDIA's chipset business. The new NVIDIA Intel chipsets came out just as the Core 2 Duo took the world by storm, making millions for NVIDIA. AMD went up against NVIDIA by purchasing ATI and they are probably going to go out of business because of it. AMD has been bleeding billions of dollars since they purchased ATI 2 years ago. Now Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

As for Havok, right now it's only being developed for the CPU so that's not even an issue.

This is more of a FUD thread than a conspiracy theory thread.

AMD is fighting a losing battle on 2 fronts. Last quarter they only had 18% of the GPU market and Intel was delivering a similar beating in the CPU market.

To be honest I would not be surprised if AMD is not bought out, split up or both.

This is big news about SLI, got any link to reliable source stating Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

SLI will be supported on X58 provided that the motherboard also includes a NVIDIA NF200 bridge chip. This was the 'compromise' reached by Intel and NVIDIA.

Straight from NVIDIA:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1216019719164.html

New SLI motherboards will feature the NVIDIA nForce® 200 SLI processor, Intel Bloomfield CPUs, and Tylersburg (X58) chipsets. The nForce 200 SLI processor features patented SLI technology for graphics bandwidth management and multi-GPU peer-to-peer communications, both required to optimize graphics performance.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: SilentRunning

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Oddly enough Intel saved NVIDIA's chipset business. The new NVIDIA Intel chipsets came out just as the Core 2 Duo took the world by storm, making millions for NVIDIA. AMD went up against NVIDIA by purchasing ATI and they are probably going to go out of business because of it. AMD has been bleeding billions of dollars since they purchased ATI 2 years ago. Now Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

As for Havok, right now it's only being developed for the CPU so that's not even an issue.

This is more of a FUD thread than a conspiracy theory thread.

AMD is fighting a losing battle on 2 fronts. Last quarter they only had 18% of the GPU market and Intel was delivering a similar beating in the CPU market.

To be honest I would not be surprised if AMD is not bought out, split up or both.

This is big news about SLI, got any link to reliable source stating Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

SLI will be supported on X58 provided that the motherboard also includes a NVIDIA NF200 bridge chip. This was the 'compromise' reached by Intel and NVIDIA.

Straight from NVIDIA:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1216019719164.html

New SLI motherboards will feature the NVIDIA nForce® 200 SLI processor, Intel Bloomfield CPUs, and Tylersburg (X58) chipsets. The nForce 200 SLI processor features patented SLI technology for graphics bandwidth management and multi-GPU peer-to-peer communications, both required to optimize graphics performance.

You mean maximize profits? Xfire doesn't need a chip to run.

Anyway, not many people have great things to say about NV motherboards, perhaps it was for the best.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
SLI will be supported on X58 provided that the motherboard also includes a NVIDIA NF200 bridge chip. This was the 'compromise' reached by Intel and NVIDIA.

The only "support" is going to come from Nvidia. Intel won't have anything to do with any X58 board that has an NF200 chip on it:

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2...ome-x58-motherboards/1

In fact, those manufacturers using the NF200 chipset won't get any Intel support what-so-ever - it won't gurantee X58 works with the NF200 and it won't help check or debug the circuitry or software either. Not unsurprising, but hardly the best situation from a consumer perspective.

 

[Canterwood]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Oddly enough Intel saved NVIDIA's chipset business. The new NVIDIA Intel chipsets came out just as the Core 2 Duo took the world by storm, making millions for NVIDIA.

Really? 99% of people I know only use Intel chipsets with Intel cpu's mainly due to the buggy unstable crap that Nvidia's chipsets have proven to be.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Historically speaking, ATI (now AMD) has worked with MS on developing the new DirectX standards, whereas NV has gone off on its own and developed proprietary standards (C for Graphics and now CUDA).

Umm...G80 was the reference hardware for DX10 API development and certification. No single company has historically played a dominant role in the development of new DX specifications or standards, other than Microsoft itself. Try reading a little history before attempting to summarize it.

Now we have intel and AMD working together on physics stuff, and NV stuck without an X86 licence, forming a new 'relationship' with VIA.

Havok is a subsidiary of Intel, which means it remains an independent business entity. VIA who?

 

[SilentRunning]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: SilentRunning

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Oddly enough Intel saved NVIDIA's chipset business. The new NVIDIA Intel chipsets came out just as the Core 2 Duo took the world by storm, making millions for NVIDIA. AMD went up against NVIDIA by purchasing ATI and they are probably going to go out of business because of it. AMD has been bleeding billions of dollars since they purchased ATI 2 years ago. Now Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

As for Havok, right now it's only being developed for the CPU so that's not even an issue.

This is more of a FUD thread than a conspiracy theory thread.

AMD is fighting a losing battle on 2 fronts. Last quarter they only had 18% of the GPU market and Intel was delivering a similar beating in the CPU market.

To be honest I would not be surprised if AMD is not bought out, split up or both.

This is big news about SLI, got any link to reliable source stating Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

SLI will be supported on X58 provided that the motherboard also includes a NVIDIA NF200 bridge chip. This was the 'compromise' reached by Intel and NVIDIA.

Straight from NVIDIA:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1216019719164.html

New SLI motherboards will feature the NVIDIA nForce® 200 SLI processor, Intel Bloomfield CPUs, and Tylersburg (X58) chipsets. The nForce 200 SLI processor features patented SLI technology for graphics bandwidth management and multi-GPU peer-to-peer communications, both required to optimize graphics performance.

So the claim that Intel chipsets will support SLI is false. I already knew the answer but Wreckage apparently didn't.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: SilentRunning

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: SilentRunning

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Oddly enough Intel saved NVIDIA's chipset business. The new NVIDIA Intel chipsets came out just as the Core 2 Duo took the world by storm, making millions for NVIDIA. AMD went up against NVIDIA by purchasing ATI and they are probably going to go out of business because of it. AMD has been bleeding billions of dollars since they purchased ATI 2 years ago. Now Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

As for Havok, right now it's only being developed for the CPU so that's not even an issue.

This is more of a FUD thread than a conspiracy theory thread.

AMD is fighting a losing battle on 2 fronts. Last quarter they only had 18% of the GPU market and Intel was delivering a similar beating in the CPU market.

To be honest I would not be surprised if AMD is not bought out, split up or both.

This is big news about SLI, got any link to reliable source stating Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

SLI will be supported on X58 provided that the motherboard also includes a NVIDIA NF200 bridge chip. This was the 'compromise' reached by Intel and NVIDIA.

Straight from NVIDIA:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1216019719164.html

New SLI motherboards will feature the NVIDIA nForce® 200 SLI processor, Intel Bloomfield CPUs, and Tylersburg (X58) chipsets. The nForce 200 SLI processor features patented SLI technology for graphics bandwidth management and multi-GPU peer-to-peer communications, both required to optimize graphics performance.

So the claim that Intel chipsets will support SLI is false. I already knew the answer but Wreckage apparently didn't.

Saw that bait coming a mile away. But maybe he just worded it poorly. X58 mobos that wish to support SLI will need the the 200 chip. The X58 chipset itself, does not support SLI.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Historically speaking, ATI (now AMD) has worked with MS on developing the new DirectX standards, whereas NV has gone off on its own and developed proprietary standards (C for Graphics and now CUDA).

Umm...G80 was the reference hardware for DX10 API development and certification. No single company has historically played a dominant role in the development of new DX specifications or standards, other than Microsoft itself. Try reading a little history before attempting to summarize it.

Now we have intel and AMD working together on physics stuff, and NV stuck without an X86 licence, forming a new 'relationship' with VIA.

Havok is a subsidiary of Intel, which means it remains an independent business entity. VIA who?

That's a pretty good attempt at discrediting my theory, in the case of DX10 anyway. Tell me this though: Have you ever known of ATI going off on a tangent like NV has done with "C for Graphics" and CUDA? From what I've read, ATI has historically worked very closely with MS since the infancy of DirectX (and by that I mean 2D). NV came into things later on, and they seem to be more of an individualistic entity than ATI (which parallels US/Canadian culture to some extent as well).

VIA's a huge company; you should read up on them. They hold an X86 license and apparently have a very good processor in the Nano.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

That's a pretty good attempt at discrediting my theory, in the case of DX10 anyway. Tell me this though: Have you ever known of ATI going off on a tangent like NV has done with "C for Graphics" and CUDA? From what I've read, ATI has historically worked very closely with MS since the infancy of DirectX (and by that I mean 2D). NV came into things later on, and they seem to be more of an individualistic entity than ATI (which parallels US/Canadian culture to some extent as well).

VIA's a huge company; you should read up on them. They hold an X86 license and apparently have a very good processor in the Nano.

CUDA is not a competitor for DirectX.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast

That's a pretty good attempt at discrediting my theory, in the case of DX10 anyway. Tell me this though: Have you ever known of ATI going off on a tangent like NV has done with "C for Graphics" and CUDA? From what I've read, ATI has historically worked very closely with MS since the infancy of DirectX (and by that I mean 2D). NV came into things later on, and they seem to be more of an individualistic entity than ATI (which parallels US/Canadian culture to some extent as well).

VIA's a huge company; you should read up on them. They hold an X86 license and apparently have a very good processor in the Nano.

CUDA is not a competitor for DirectX.

It looks like it will potentially be a competitor for DX11.

Just because NV unveiled CUDA it doesn't mean that they were first to execute that type of code on a GPU. If AMD works closely with MS on the DX11 spec, watch out NV. If history is our guideline, this is exactly what will mostly likely happen. Another failed stab at individuality for NV.

It's pretty sad that MS can pretty much dictate what goes on in the IT world as a whole; it really does quash innovation in its own disgusting way.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: SilentRunning

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: SilentRunning

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Oddly enough Intel saved NVIDIA's chipset business. The new NVIDIA Intel chipsets came out just as the Core 2 Duo took the world by storm, making millions for NVIDIA. AMD went up against NVIDIA by purchasing ATI and they are probably going to go out of business because of it. AMD has been bleeding billions of dollars since they purchased ATI 2 years ago. Now Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

As for Havok, right now it's only being developed for the CPU so that's not even an issue.

This is more of a FUD thread than a conspiracy theory thread.

AMD is fighting a losing battle on 2 fronts. Last quarter they only had 18% of the GPU market and Intel was delivering a similar beating in the CPU market.

To be honest I would not be surprised if AMD is not bought out, split up or both.

This is big news about SLI, got any link to reliable source stating Intel chipsets will be supporting SLI.

SLI will be supported on X58 provided that the motherboard also includes a NVIDIA NF200 bridge chip. This was the 'compromise' reached by Intel and NVIDIA.

Straight from NVIDIA:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1216019719164.html

New SLI motherboards will feature the NVIDIA nForce® 200 SLI processor, Intel Bloomfield CPUs, and Tylersburg (X58) chipsets. The nForce 200 SLI processor features patented SLI technology for graphics bandwidth management and multi-GPU peer-to-peer communications, both required to optimize graphics performance.

So the claim that Intel chipsets will support SLI is false. I already knew the answer but Wreckage apparently didn't.

Saw that bait coming a mile away. But maybe he just worded it poorly. X58 mobos that wish to support SLI will need the the 200 chip. The X58 chipset itself, does not support SLI.

Actually, I stand corrected. Announced at Nvision08, NATIVE support for SLI on X58 chipsets (without the bridge chips).
Surprise surprise surprise