Why does nvidia cheat so much?

[SirPauly]

The simple fact is they work more on optimizing the games to fit their drivers and cards.

It's just so easy for them to cheat and "over optimize" for their cards. Would AMD do this if they also worked so much on optimization? maybe.

I rather have them work with developers trying to improve code instead of going behind the developers back and the gamers back; to trade image quality for performance.

It's a simple point: Why would developers work with an IHV if they truly did harm to AMD? Sabotage AMD? A bunch of evil minions doing the bidding of the nefarious dark Lord nVidia? The illusion of the good guy vs the bad guy.

These kinds of debates become circular and just buy the product that best fits your subjective tastes and tolerances.

 

[Pantalaimon]

It's a simple point: Why would developers work with an IHV if they truly did harm to AMD? Sabotage AMD? A bunch of evil minions doing the bidding of the nefarious dark Lord nVidia? The illusion of the good guy vs the bad guy.

For money? Coding support (= extra coders to work)? It's not like the developers are altruistic people either. Especially in the current situation where many games are multi platform, it's not that big a deal to piss off a smaller part of your potential clients while there's a much larger market now.

Most customers also tend to have short memories, and many don't even mind what they are doing. So in the long run the downside is not that big.

 

[SirPauly]

If a game is multi-platform, most of the developers resources may go into console and having the IHV's be pro-active for their customers is essential to me. As long as you do no harm to the developers code to sabotage anyone, see no problem. nVidia isn't going to go out of their way to make AMD look good but for nVidia to look good and for their customers to benefit.

Ask AMD to do more -- instead of whining about nVidia doing more for their customers.

 

[KCfromNC]

In the end, it always goes there. Can't beat em, then smear em. LOL

Followed by

Seriously. It should be printed and hung on walls. Far too much angst, far too many conspiracy theories, far too much emotion.

Settle down now. LOL. Remember that skit?

Don't you hear the bile in your own words here? It ain't healthy dude. You don't know me, nor do you care to. Easier to hate and condemn what your ignorant of I guess.

And next week when you discover AMD is currently doing the same, what will you do then?

Anyone else want to take this one? :\ Just getting a little to bizarre.

Hmm.... At least he's telegraphing what the strategy is for dealing with this thread before going ahead and doing it.

 

[Pantalaimon]

If a game is multi-platform, most of the developers resources may go into console and having the IHV's be pro-active for their customers is essential to me. As long as you do no harm to the developers code to sabotage anyone, see no problem. nVidia isn't going to go out of their way to make AMD look good but for nVidia to look good and for their customers to benefit.

Ask AMD to do more -- instead of whining about nVidia doing more for their customers.

Yes, that vendor ID lock that would prevent AMD to add their AA implementation was not to make AMD look bad. Having a focus group member create negative posts to put down the competition is what, a public service announcement to customers? Giving a crappy bargain basement laptop to replace the expensive laptops people lost due to bumb gate was also doing more for their customers too I guess.

 

[Seero]

...They are referencing what nVidia got caught doing. They are obviously trying to link the two events, as Seero has also done, rather than treat them as they are, two completely separate and unique occurrences...

Did I spin it up? I told you all I did was to google "viral marketing AMD" and it was the first site that pops up. There are a lot of other hits on the first page which is a result of this incident. In fact, there were a thread over in the CPU section 5 years ago. Spin?

 

[KCfromNC]

Imho,

No, what is cheating is going behind the developers back and the gamers back and trading image quality for performance.

You've just described every video card driver in existence. For example, see examples of IQ vs. performance tradeoffs in NV drivers here : http://www.nhancer.com/?dat=d_optimizations

 

[SirPauly]

It's obvious some have a fetish for Keys because he has an affiliation with nVidia. I think most of it is jealousy. I think if AMD had a focus group, and asked gamers from various forums to partake, think many would jump at the opportunity to have a voice and ear of AMD, be privy of NDA information, maybe drivers and offer insight on how one feels about the hardware and features to AMD.

 

[96Firebird]

Yes, that vendor ID lock that would prevent AMD to add their AA implementation was not to make AMD look bad.

Nvidia worked on the code, why should they not reap the rewards for their effort? The game launched with no AA, Nvidia worked on the AA, Nvidia can do whatever they want with the AA since they worked on it. Tell AMD to get off their lazy asses and work on their own AA...

Having a focus group member create negative posts to put down the competition is what, a public service announcement to customers?

How long ago was this?

Giving a crappy bargain basement laptop to replace the expensive laptops people lost due to bumb gate was also doing more for their customers too I guess.

Nvidia did prolong admitting fault on the bumpgate issue, I'll give you that. But, at the time when everything was over with in the courts, the laptop customers got was comparable to the one they lost due to the issue. The judge even ruled it was a viable replacement.

 

[Pantalaimon]

Hmm.... At least he's telegraphing what the strategy is for dealing with this thread before going ahead and doing it.

I don't think you will find a focus group member admit that NVIDIA has done something bad. I've noticed that whatever crappy strategy / action NVIDA makes they will try to spin it. Bumb gate? It's the PC manufacturers' fault, or we don't know what really happened. Apparently NVIDIA is so magnanimous that it took the blame instead of those PC manufacturers. Those crappy laptops that NVIDIA gave the customers burned by bumb gate? Apparently it's perfectly fair because a clueless judge ok'd it. Drivers that brick cards? It's the customers' fault for overclocking the cards.

 

[Genx87]

Yes, that vendor ID lock that would prevent AMD to add their AA implementation was not to make AMD look bad. Having a focus group member create negative posts to put down the competition is what, a public service announcement to customers? Giving a crappy bargain basement laptop to replace the expensive laptops people lost due to bumb gate was also doing more for their customers too I guess.

The ID lock didnt stop AMD from providing their own AA for the game. AMD just failed to produce the code until the GOTY edition.

 

[hdfxst]

Yes, that vendor ID lock that would prevent AMD to add their AA implementation was not to make AMD look bad. Having a focus group member create negative posts to put down the competition is what, a public service announcement to customers? Giving a crappy bargain basement laptop to replace the expensive laptops people lost due to bumb gate was also doing more for their customers too I guess.

i'm still waiting for those champions of justice to post a WARNING::SA about this card http://www.gpu-tech.org/content.php/174-Nvidia-Geforce-405-apparently-not-Fermi-based


why did it edit public service announcement?

 

[SirPauly]

You've just described every video card driver in existence. For example, see examples of IQ vs. performance tradeoffs in NV drivers here : http://www.nhancer.com/?dat=d_optimizations

I even have a problem with filtering optimizations, too.

 

[SirPauly]

i'm still waiting for those champions of justice to post a WARNING::SA about this card http://www.gpu-tech.org/content.php/174-Nvidia-Geforce-405-apparently-not-Fermi-based


why did it edit public service announcement?

That's easy, sometimes OEMS ask for the name changes and the IHV's oblige them, that's why both do it.

 

[Pantalaimon]

Nvidia did prolong admitting fault on the bumpgate issue, I'll give you that. But, at the time when everything was over with in the courts, the laptop customers got was comparable to the one they lost due to the issue. The judge even ruled it was a viable replacement.

A judge is never wrong right? Do you honestly believe as a customer that the laptops for which you paid at least double the value that the model NVIDIA eventually used to replace them with was a fair trade?

Regarding negative posts, Rollo did it all the time when he was here, and I believe he continues to do so on other forums where he's not banned yet. And he continues to be a focus group member. Explain to me how some one with such an atrocious posting behavior can continue to be kept in this focus group program if the people running it don't approve such a behavior.

 

[96Firebird]

i'm still waiting for those champions of justice to post a WARNING::SA about this card http://www.gpu-tech.org/content.php/174-Nvidia-Geforce-405-apparently-not-Fermi-based


why did it edit public service announcement?

So its an OEM-only card that seems to be pretty efficient and is perfect for a basic computer that is going to be used to surf the web and watch movies.

No?

 

[hdfxst]

So its an OEM-only card that seems to be pretty efficient and is perfect for a basic computer that is going to be used to surf the web and watch movies.

No?

so was the 5770/6770 when it was first announced.I just want to see if the same people who were so concerned with consumer protection are going to step up

 

[96Firebird]

A judge is never wrong right? Do you honestly believe as a customer that the laptops for which you paid at least double the value that the model NVIDIA eventually used to replace them with was a fair trade?

Regarding negative posts, Rollo did it all the time when he was here, and I believe he continues to do so on other forums where he's not banned yet. And he continues to be a focus group member. Explain to me how some one with such an atrocious posting behavior can continue to be kept in this focus group program if the people running it don't approve such a behavior.

We can go in circles debating whether or not the US Court System is perfect, which we both know it is far from. But it won't get us anywhere... The replacement laptop was of comparable performance to those which had the bumpgate problem, simple as that. Do you know how fast technology, especially regarding computers, advances?

As far as Rollo goes, I was not around back then. I don't know who he is, but did a little reading about him. So does he still bash AMD, or does he just promote Nvidia? There is a big difference... Seems most of the Nvidia Focus Group simply promote Nvidia, while we have posters here who simply post to bash Nvidia.

so was the 5770/6770 when it was first announced.I just want to see if the same people who were so concerned with consumer protection are going to step up

I'm confused what you mean by "consumer protection"? Because it was renamed? I guess I am missing where you are going with this...

 

[SirPauly]

Yes, that vendor ID lock that would prevent AMD to add their AA implementation was not to make AMD look bad. Having a focus group member create negative posts to put down the competition is what, a public service announcement to customers? Giving a crappy bargain basement laptop to replace the expensive laptops people lost due to bumb gate was also doing more for their customers too I guess.

Adding in-game AA was for nVidia's customers and the lock out was decided by the developers. AMD was offered the same opportunity as nVidia to code for their customers, and yes it may of been inefficient but it could of been done. Instead AMD used this as a PR bomb to blanket nVidia's developer relations, imho.

 

[hdfxst]

I'm confused what you mean by "consumer protection"? Because it was renamed? I guess I am missing where you are going with this...

The card is a rebranded 210

 

[SirPauly]

A judge is never wrong right?.

The conspiracy now goes to the legal system where the judge was in on it as well?

 

[KCfromNC]

I don't think you will find a focus group member admit that NVIDIA has done something bad.

I was more pointing to the concept that if you behave a certain way long enough, you'll start assuming everyone else has the same motivations. It's part of projection. Cheaters assume everyone else is cheating. People who react emotionally assume that everyone else is being emotional. Apply the same logic to people who keep telling us that AMD is employing stealth forum marketing campaigns and see what conclusion you come up with.

 

[96Firebird]

The card is a rebranded 210

Oh, I have no problem with rebranding a card. If the demand is there, keep selling it. :thumbsup:

I never understood why people were up in arms with the 5770 going to 6770. Apparently there were still people who wanted it, so why not bring it along...

 

[hdfxst]

Oh, I have no problem with rebranding a card. If the demand is there, keep selling it. :thumbsup:

I never understood why people were up in arms with the 5770 going to 6770. Apparently there were still people who wanted it, so why not bring it along...

They should never have called it a 400 series(fermi) card.I just want to see if the outrage is the same for this card

 

[96Firebird]

They should never have called it a 400 series(fermi) card.I just want to see if the outrage is the same for this card

So because of the architecture, it should not have been renamed in the 400 series?