why does xp boot faster than 2k?

chipy

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2003
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2
81
there are two computers in our house.
mine is a newer one based on Athlon XP and faster memory - running win 2k.
the other one is a compaq presario with Athlon XP but not as fast memory - running win xp.

i timed the boot up for both comps and the compaq boots quicker... about 40 secs quicker! why?

i noticed that the compaq when booting there is not POST... it goes straight to the screen with Windows and scrolling thingy at the bottom.

on my pc, it posts stuff... i don't think i can get rid of all the posts... or can i? plus, even if i do, the part where it shows the scrolling at the bottom takes longer on my pc... i wonder why?

any Windows OS experts out there?

chipy
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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A lot of BIOSes let you turn on a 'quick' mode that will skip most of the longer hardware checks, but it depends on your hardware and your BIOS.

And XP boots faster because it does more in parallel and it uses a defrag/preload thing to move files around on the disk so that they load faster. Essentially it profiles the bootup routine and fragments the files that are loaded on startup in such a way that the machine boots faster.
 

Fokks

Senior member
Oct 31, 1999
371
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Nothinman's right, Windows XP was specifically designed to boot faster, that was one of it's feature bullet points.
 

chipy

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2003
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thanks to the both of you for the clarification! much appreciated.

chipy
 

Green Man

Golden Member
Jan 21, 2001
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Also, Windows XP throws you on the desktop WELL before it's finished loading. It looks like it has loaded, but it you try to do anything... nothing but hourglass.
 

KoolDrew

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: Green Man
Also, Windows XP throws you on the desktop WELL before it's finished loading. It looks like it has loaded, but it you try to do anything... nothing but hourglass.



Not for me. Right when I see the desktop I can click things...
 

corkyg

Elite Member | Peripherals
Super Moderator
Mar 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: Green Man
Also, Windows XP throws you on the desktop WELL before it's finished loading. It looks like it has loaded, but it you try to do anything... nothing but hourglass.

Correct! As you can see, that depends on what you have running - as soon as the desktop appears, loading continues for Antispyware, Antivirus, Zone Alarm Pro, Roboform Pro, Wacom digitizing pad, Sony Puppy 600 biometric reader, and 1st clock.

My "post desktop" load time is about another 30 seconds. Yeah, I can click on a program in that period, but it will be delayed.

Each person's needs and desires are different - so - Mark Twain's saying applies:

"All generalizations are false, including this one."

 

imported_BikeDude

Senior member
May 12, 2004
357
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uses a defrag/preload thing to move files around on the disk so that they load faster. Essentially it profiles the bootup routine and fragments the files that are loaded on startup in such a way that the machine boots faster.

Prefetching seems to be adequately described here: http://blogs.msdn.com/ryanmy/archive/2005/05/25/421882.aspx

As for fragmentation... I know people love their little defragmentation utilities, but IMO they seldom do much for performance. But then again I run SCSI drives with quick seek speeds...

 

Philippine Mango

Diamond Member
Oct 29, 2004
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Originally posted by: BikeDude
uses a defrag/preload thing to move files around on the disk so that they load faster. Essentially it profiles the bootup routine and fragments the files that are loaded on startup in such a way that the machine boots faster.

Prefetching seems to be adequately described here: http://blogs.msdn.com/ryanmy/archive/2005/05/25/421882.aspx

As for fragmentation... I know people love their little defragmentation utilities, but IMO they seldom do much for performance. But then again I run SCSI drives with quick seek speeds...

um yes they do quite a bit for performance, You've obivously never used a machine thats 9yrs old and has programs installed, uninstalled, internet cache never been deleted, files copied to the drive and removed etc..
 

imported_BikeDude

Senior member
May 12, 2004
357
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Hmm... Well, when I first started using hard disks (nearly 20 years ago) I defragged the crap out of them, but these days... I dunno... How much fragmentation would it take to make e.g. my e-mail reader launch one second slower? (or delay a search by a second) I suspect a rather obscene amount.

Don't get me wrong, I do check fragmentation every now and then, but not more often than annually. Some of the PC magazines seem to accept no less than daily defragmentation runs...

(Besides, temporary internet files should be kept at bay by limiting the amount of diskspace allocated to them, not by defragging daily -- I have my cache set at 15-20MB or so)
 

yelo333

Senior member
Dec 13, 2003
990
0
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Originally posted by: Philippine Mango
Originally posted by: BikeDude
As for fragmentation... I know people love their little defragmentation utilities, but IMO they seldom do much for performance. But then again I run SCSI drives with quick seek speeds...
um yes they do quite a bit for performance, You've obivously never used a machine thats 9yrs old and has programs installed, uninstalled, internet cache never been deleted, files copied to the drive and removed etc..

Old computers do seem to suffer more performance effects from fragmentation. When I think about defragmenting, the first thing that pops to my mind was an 11yr(!) old 16mhz 386SX with an old 60mb HD.It had DOS 5.0 on it. As you know, DOS 5.0 has no defragmenter. So, I found a third-party one, and defragged. I didn't time it, but I do know that boot time was halved, along with load time for every major app installed on that computer. I think that fragmentation average per file was more then two. The drive had been filled to the very brim(think 1k free), and subsequently emptied to around 30mb multiple times without a reformat.

However, even on newer computers which haven't been defragged in a long time, I have not been able to replicate such results.

So, I would agree...new computers don't seem to suffer performance degregation as much from fragmentation.

OTOH, an overnight run monthly doesn't hurt a thing, so I really don't see a reason _not_ to do it...If I gain anything from doing it, IMO, it's worth it.

Disclamer: I run linux a lot, and so haven't defragged in a long time, due to:

a) Defragmenting is generally unnecessary if you keep your disk less then around 90% full, since all the major linux formats(along with most other formats used in the *nix world) do an excellent job keeping the disk from getting fragmented in the first place. And,
b) I have yet to see a defragmenter for ext2/3, or resierfs. This is probably because of reason a.

So...Feel free to disreguard my comments, as I haven't defragmented my own drive in a long time.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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b) I have yet to see a defragmenter for ext2/3, or resierfs. This is probably because of reason a.

There was/is a defragmenter for ext2 ironically called defrag. But the last time I used it, it required umounting the filesystem and didn't work on filesystems >2G. It was really more of a proof-of-concept thing than anything else. If it still works it should work on ext3 as well, although I don't know what it would do to directory hashes if you had that enabled. And reiserfs, well it's always been crap IMO and it's userland tools were always terrible.
 

yelo333

Senior member
Dec 13, 2003
990
0
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Originally posted by: Nothinman
b) I have yet to see a defragmenter for ext2/3, or resierfs. This is probably because of reason a.

There was/is a defragmenter for ext2 ironically called defrag. But the last time I used it, it required umounting the filesystem and didn't work on filesystems >2G. It was really more of a proof-of-concept thing than anything else. If it still works it should work on ext3 as well, although I don't know what it would do to directory hashes if you had that enabled. And reiserfs, well it's always been crap IMO and it's userland tools were always terrible.


Well, there actually is a defragmenter for ext2...e2defrag. From all I can tell in google searches, though, it is highly recommended to *not* use it. So, nobody try it . Thanks for pointing that out to me...

As for reiserfs...

I use ext3 on my /home partition, simply because I'd be willing to take a 10x speed decrease just for the peace of mind that I have my files on a filesystem that is not going to corrupt itself.

However, for /, I use resierfs. What convinced me to use this intead was two-fold, both from my experiences with a computer with an old 1.2gb HD in it

a) early on, when I was still using MC just to find my way around the directory structure, I found that running a find for a file with ext3 took probably 5x longer, and sounded like the HD's head was going all over the place. The exact same find with reiserfs both ran faster, and was quieter, due to the fact that the disk head was taking a more sane approach. Note that this was with a 2.4 kernel, and it's possible that the anticipatory io scheduler from the 2.6 kernel may reduce this gap a lot.

b) Due to the default cluster sizes being different, and the tail packing feature of reiserfs, I was able to fit significantly more packages on that small 1.2gb drive then I was with ext2/3.

c) Well, this isn't really a reason, but...reiserfs worked then, and was faster. I believe I have stuck with it for no reason other then habit.

d) ext3 is not faster then reiser. I personally have not had any problems with riser other then when I thought for about 5 minutes that I had an ext3 filesystem, and tried to access my linux partition under windows with ext2fs. Even though it claimed to be readonly, it left my reiserfs partition in an unbootable state, which the userspace reiserfs tools corrected enough to allow me to get my data off (which admittitedly was just settings at the time, not "real" data), which messing up the filenames on some obscure files, enough to warrant a reinstall, but not enough for me to not give reiserfs another shot.

So, to sum it up, reiser because once-upon-a-time, I was using a computer slow enough for me to feel/hear the difference. Out of habit, I have continued that tradition except for /home.

So, now I've explained why I personally use reiser...would you mind explaning why you consider reiser so horrible? Please understand that I am not dogmatic about my views, and I greatly enjoy hearing/discussing the views of more experienced people (as I only really have about 3yrs of this stuff under my belt right now, and am constantly trying to learn more).

My apologies if this is getting way too far offtopic...It seems to me that the OP has already gotten his question answered, but, still...I'd be more then willing to take this to PM's., or even drop it entirely, if necessary.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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I use ext3 on my /home partition, simply because I'd be willing to take a 10x speed decrease just for the peace of mind that I have my files on a filesystem that is not going to corrupt itself.

I highly doubt the speed difference is 10x, especially for /home.

So, now I've explained why I personally use reiser...would you mind explaning why you consider reiser so horrible?

Every time I've tried reiser it's bit me in the ass eventually. The most recent time was on sparc64, the box was unclealy shutdown and on bootup the screen would go black and the box would hang as soon as syslogd started. As long as I didn't start syslogd it was fine and it was a pita to debug since the screen blanked. I hooked up a serial console and saw that the box was oopsing in some reiser function, I imagine the screen was blanking because it was overwriting something else in kernel memory. Mounting the filesystem said it was clean, reiserfsck insisted it was clean too. Through some random poking in the files syslogd accessed I found that one of the log files was f'd up, if I tried to read it the box died so I deleted the file and everything was happy. I then tar'd up my /var filesystem and converted it XFS which hasn't given me a problem since.

The only reason I even tried reiserfs on that box was because in early 2.6 kernels XFS would oops on mounting a non-clean fs every time, luckily XFS got that fixed and I can use it now. The box still has an ext3 / because the installer didn't support XFS at the time and not a lot of bootloaders play well with XFS yet.

And on top of it all Hans Reiser is an asshole. I like his ideas and Reiser4 has the potential to be the defacto-standard unix filesystem in the future, but he and his development team work way too haphazardly and seem more interested in coming up with something cool than designing a stable filesystem.
 

chipy

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2003
1,469
2
81
thanks all for the replies... we got some cool linux info as well!!

chipy
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
29,481
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Might be YAAPC (Yet another Apples and Pears Comparison.)

If the systems are exactly equal (with memory more than 256MB), in Hardware, setups, and software startup, WinXP would boot faster.

My Win2000 systems always Boot faster because I use it as a trimmed plain vanilla test systems that loads the least possible at startup.

:sun:
 
Jan 29, 2005
84
0
0
One other thing XP does is it brings up the desktop while network connections are still connecting/loading/initializing. Win 2000 had to do all the networking stuff before you saw the desktop.

Originally posted by: chipy
there are two computers in our house.
mine is a newer one based on Athlon XP and faster memory - running win 2k.
the other one is a compaq presario with Athlon XP but not as fast memory - running win xp.

i timed the boot up for both comps and the compaq boots quicker... about 40 secs quicker! why?

i noticed that the compaq when booting there is not POST... it goes straight to the screen with Windows and scrolling thingy at the bottom.

on my pc, it posts stuff... i don't think i can get rid of all the posts... or can i? plus, even if i do, the part where it shows the scrolling at the bottom takes longer on my pc... i wonder why?

any Windows OS experts out there?

chipy

 

Continuity27

Senior member
May 26, 2005
516
0
0
Windows XP launches many of its services at the same time in parallel whereas Windows 2000 and before did them one at a time, or very close to that. Windows XP also has MORE services that start (and a lot more bloat), that's how boot times are made to be pretty similar or slightly shorter.

Anyone who's ever used a program to remove all the bloat from Windows XP will notice substantial decreases in boot times thanks to the better botting procedures of Windows XP.
 

stars

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2002
1,068
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0
(Not to change topic)

JackMDS could you post the exact steps you take when setting up Windows 2000 on your test systems. I'm interested in knowing and others might find it helpful.

Thanks
 
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