why don't OEM's come with a reset button on the front of the case anymore?

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Davegod
All you have to do is hold the power button for 8 seconds, then tap it again.

Remember its not only the actual part cost, but there's also the associated inventory costs, added complexity for manufacturing which might include lenghier retooling (it's not just the 20c part, but a hole cut into each case, someone or a machine to plug the part into that hole, someone to wire the part to the motherboard, something extra to break for QC, something extra to break for warranty [which might mean $100 for postage since PC has to go back, be fixed and back to customer again]). In this way the removal of a part that costs 20c each can actually reduce costs in the long run by, let's say for example, an average of $1 per product!

The switch may only be costed at say $1, but thats $1 extra on the bottom line for every single PC sold. Putting it back wouldnt need $1 put on sale price to replace it - the manufacturer would add $1 to OEM price, or maybe $1 plus their markup of 15% = $1.15 since they wouldnt be having their ROI or returns ratios reduced. Pretending the retailer also has a standard markup of 15%, adding back the 20c part now has added £1.32 to the price of the product! Does it seem sensible for a highly competitive industry, that is greatly affected by turns in the economy, to keep this $1.32 price addition when another part of the product already serves it's function?

Plus, every other minor cost cut is another $x extra on the bottom line. Google for a study on airlines cutting a single olive from meals for a lenghy academic explanation.

Man, i think you're over hyperbolising the cost of a reset button. With all the fancy cases with their panels, CD holders built into the case, and input/outputs such as front USB, Firewire, sound etc, i doubt a reset button cost anything significantly. And have you ever connected a reset button? It's a single wire that goes to the motherboard.

 

[Davegod]

front USB and even CD holders and whatnot can be perceived to be adding value (in a product analysis sense), whereas reset button adds none as it provides no actual or perceived use.

"cost anything significantly", manufacturing in a competitive indistry, there is no such thing as a cost that isnt significant. If a cost doesnt constitute value added, then cut it. Plus, every other minor cost cut is another $x extra on the bottom line. Google for a study on airlines cutting a single olive from meals for a lenghy academic explanation. or just try Operations Management.

 

[Looney]

front USB and even CD holders and whatnot can be perceived to be adding value (in a product analysis sense), whereas reset button adds none as it provides no actual or perceived use.

Well that's contradicting some of the responses in this thread.

"cost anything significantly", manufacturing in a competitive indistry, there is no such thing as a cost that isnt significant. If a cost doesnt constitute value added, then cut it. Plus, every other minor cost cut is another $x extra on the bottom line. Google for a study on airlines cutting a single olive from meals for a lenghy academic explanation. or just try Operations Management.

And the savings from that was what, $40,000 a year... certainly not 'anything significant'. One airline did that, and it made headlines because it was so absurd.

 

[Pudgygiant]

On our dell the button resets if you push it and hard shuts down if you hold it for 5 seconds. Is the resetting a win2k / winxp revelation? I never saw this back on win98 boxes, and it soft-resets (I.E. it logs off the same way as if I start-> shutdown-> restarted.

 

[Davegod]

yeah come to think of it, costs seem an absurd consideration for a manufacturing business. it's way more likely that they took it out because of those damm newbie customers "abusing" their own reset button too much.

 

[igowerf]

Originally posted by: adrianwalters

Originally posted by: Paulson
It's a way to cut costs, plus it isn't necessary... HOLD THE BUTTON FOR 8 OR SO SECONDS.

If you're too lazy to do that, just unplug the damn thing.

Thats a pretty shoddy argument. If I am spending a couple hundred bucks on a machine, I want it to have a reset button. Would you really care if they charged you 50 cents more?

But once could also say, "If I am spending a couple hundred bucks on a machine, I want it to have a network activity light on the front." Reset buttons aren't needed anymore, especially since people are way too quick to use them.

The moment someone's computer locks up (read: loads something for a long time), they'll hit the reset switch and fvck up their system in the process. The lack of a reset switch prevents people from resetting their computers at inopportune times and killing Windows.

I don't know about you, but I hate it when people ask, "My computer locked up while I was using Word so I immediately reset it. Can I recover my work?" I would only restart my computer as a last resort if something like that happened.

 

[glugglug]

2 reasons I can think of off the top of my head:

1. Reset button plus connecting cable & molex connector costs upwards of $0.10. This is without a doubt the primary concern.

2. Elimination of tech support calls. You may wonder how a reset button would cause tech support calls. But I guarantee you there were people calling up and saying "I'm pressing the button and it isn't coming on" after hitting the reset button repeatedly.

Igowerf's argument about people screwing up their systems by getting impatient and hitting the button is also a good one that I'm sure was occuring. The "hold it down for 4 seconds" method doesn't hold water as an argument against this, however. While I'm sure the 4 second delay is to ward off impatient newbs screwing up their systems, that time is measured by an interrupt which in some rare severe crashes does not occur. The switch in the back of the system must then be flipped, or in cases where the OEM was too cheap to provide the switch, the power plug must be pulled.

I wonder how many tech support calls are caused by the fact that when you don't flip the (non-existant in some cases) switch before adding/removing hardware, parts of the system are still powered even if it is shut down.

P.S. Anyone remember CD caddys? Know why those existed? The very first CD drives had the trays like the ones today, but maybe a bit less sturdy. The caddy's replaced them until people started becoming familiar with CDs because of all the tech support calls for "broken beverage trays".

 

[Looney]

I wonder how many tech support calls are caused by the fact that when you don't flip the (non-existant in some cases) switch before adding/removing hardware, parts of the system are still powered even if it is shut down.

I doubt there are that many. By the time somebody hits the reset and begins to open their case, it would have been in the process of rebooting. Their monitor would be on, they would get the POST beep, and windows would be loading... and even if they miss all that, they would still see the motherboard lights and CPU/PS fans still running.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: EeyoreX

It's a way to cut costs, plus it isn't necessary... HOLD THE BUTTON FOR 8 OR SO SECONDS.

If you're too lazy to do that, just unplug the damn thing.

Thats a pretty shoddy argument. If I am spending a couple hundred bucks on a machine, I want it to have a reset button. Would you really care if they charged you 50 cents more?

Regardless of if you feel the reason is "shoddy" the fact remains the same. It isn't necessary for it to have two buttons. Not when one can serve two purposes. Do you need two buttons for each letter of the alphabet on your keyboard? One for lower case and one for upper case? If you really are so desperate for a stupid reset button, don't buy a computer that doesn't have one. Or, look at it like this: Nearly everything else has gotten more powerful in PCs. From CPU to graphics power to larger hard drive sizes. Prices have gone from several thousand to a couple hundred. The reset button they removed? It's saving you at least a thousand dollars.

\Dan

Have you ever used a computer? Sometimes they crash, and holding your precious power button for 4 seconds is not going to shut it down if that happens.

 

[EeyoreX]

Have you ever used a computer? Sometimes they crash, and holding your precious power button for 4 seconds is not going to shut it down if that happens.

A computer? What's that? No. I never used a computer. I post via hocus pocus and the power of the mind. And "reseting" after a crash works for me on the Dell Optiplex PCs here at work. Works for my GFs Compaq at home. Maybe the "precious power buttons" on computers in my surroundings are better? As a side note, I build my own PCs. They have reset buttons.

\Dan

 

[glugglug]

Holding down the power button for 4 seconds does not work when interrupts are disabled, which can be the case if a crash occurs within device driver code.

Also, the power button is definately a cost issue. Let's say Dell or Compaq is selling 10 million vomit boxes a year. 10 million * $0.10 per button = $1 million dollars a year. That's enough to pay more than 300 new employees at their offshore R & D facility.

 

[Paulson]

Hey, guess what! I have a reset button on my computer! WHY? BECAUSE I BUILT THE DAMN THING.

Lets end this discussion on the note that if you want a damn reset button, learn how to build a computer. Then you would have saved us all the time to explain to you why a reset button isn't necessary.

That's my 2 cents, and if you took that by a million, I'm sure it'd be a costly decision that I might just have to cut :|!