why don't they flip agp cards upside down?

[dpopiz]

graphics cards are getting hotter and hotter and their hsf's are starting to be very noisy and block pci slots. there's tons of space for a nice big passive hs above the agp slot, why don't they just flip agp cards upside down?

 

[FishTankX]

I'd say because it'd heat up the CPU, and the original ATX spec called for forcing cold air down through the case.

 

[smp]

Originally posted by: FishTankX
I'd say because it'd heat up the CPU, and the original ATX spec called for forcing cold air down through the case.

I totally think they should redo that spec.
Most ATX cases nowadays have an exhaust fan located right above the AGP slot. ATX spec should make this necessary too.

 

[johndoe52]

With video cards getting hotter and hotter ATX specs should allow for a card to be flipped. It could help video card heat sinks be more effective considering heat travels up anyways. I don't see that much extra heat affecting my cpu considering i have two exhaust fans right there anyways.

 

[XMan]

They could put holes in the PCBs, too, in dead space.

 

[everman]

Ya I have 2 exhaust fans just above my card, it would be perfect to just flip it. You could possibly even position the fan to blow across the heat sink towards the exhaust fans, wouldn't increase case temps at all.

 

[ozone13]

Originally posted by: dpopiz
graphics cards are getting hotter and hotter and their hsf's are starting to be very noisy and block pci slots. there's tons of space for a nice big passive hs above the agp slot, why don't they just flip agp cards upside down?

Won't matter in a year....PCIX will be out and AGP will be gone. You'll be able to place your videocard anywhere on the board.

 

[Howard]

They could put holes in the PCBs, too, in dead space.

What about structural integrity?

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: Howard

They could put holes in the PCBs, too, in dead space.

What about structural integrity?

I don't know what you do with YOUR boards . . .

 

[Keego]

The AGP port is positioned so the card is OVER the slot in the back of the computer where the monitor plug is... thus if you flipped it over, you'd have to go out the slot OVER the AGP port. Thus ruining all the form factors in todays cases.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: ozone13

Originally posted by: dpopiz
graphics cards are getting hotter and hotter and their hsf's are starting to be very noisy and block pci slots. there's tons of space for a nice big passive hs above the agp slot, why don't they just flip agp cards upside down?

Won't matter in a year....PCIX will be out and AGP will be gone. You'll be able to place your videocard anywhere on the board.

What are you talking about? PCI-X is a "dead" technology. Its being replaced by PCI-Xpress 2. Furthermore, PCI-X variants are designed for high I/O servers and workstations, not the desktop market.

 

[dpopiz]

ozone13:
cool! but I don't really know what you mean. what's pci-x like? I thought it was just faster pci

keego:
they wouldn't have to change the position of the board in relation to the back panel/mobo slots. just mount the gfx chip on the back of the pcb, and then use the extra space on the other side for ram + big ramsinks and other components

 

[ozone13]

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: ozone13

Originally posted by: dpopiz
graphics cards are getting hotter and hotter and their hsf's are starting to be very noisy and block pci slots. there's tons of space for a nice big passive hs above the agp slot, why don't they just flip agp cards upside down?

Won't matter in a year....PCIX will be out and AGP will be gone. You'll be able to place your videocard anywhere on the board.

What are you talking about? PCI-X is a "dead" technology. Its being replaced by PCI-Xpress 2. Furthermore, PCI-X variants are designed for high I/O servers and workstations, not the desktop market.

When I said PCIX, I mean PCIX in general....and its NOT dead, nor is it only for servers and high-end workstations.....this is probably true for the first generation, but its definately not true for the future. It is supposed to replace AGP and PCI within the next 1-2 years because the bandwidth capability is much greater. Probably in 2004, another version of PCI called 3GIO will be out (supposedly). Here's a quote from an article:

PCI-X, just now arriving in today's servers, can transfer 1.07 gigabytes of data per second, said Roger Tipley, president of the PCI special-interest group that governs the specification. PCI-X 2.0 pumps data faster for each tick of the clock, with the PCI-X 266 standard at 2.1 gigabytes per second and PCI-X 533 at 4.3 gigabytes per second.

PCI-X 2.0 will be good for connections to 10 gigabit-per-second Ethernet networks, high-speed hard disk controllers and forthcoming 10 gigabit-per-second Fibre Channel connections to storage networks, Tipley said.

But the longevity of PCI-X 2.0 means it's overlapping with another version of PCI called 3GIO, for third-generation input-output.

Intel and other supporters believe 3GIO will coexist with PCI-X. Intel's Macdonald expects that beginning in 2004, 3GIO will start catching on in desktop and laptop computers, which will be able to use 3GIO for plugging in data-hungry graphics cards as well as network cards.

Tipley said the 3GIO specification provides an initial transfer speed of 0.5 gigabytes per second that will increase to 1, 2, 4 and 8 gigabytes per second over the years.

ServerWorks' Brown believes server makers will stick with what works for the time being, and that means PCI-X, not 3GIO. "3GIO will come, but it still has to prove itself in the marketplace," he said.

We'll just have to see....time will tell.

 

[AndyHui]

3GIO, now known as PCI-Express, is where it's at. Still writing my article on it....look for it soon.

 

[VTrider]

I always wished that AGP cards were turned the other way just so I could google over all that pretty hardware/fan/heatsinks through my newly constructed window!

-VTrider

 

[zephyrprime]

...

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: AndyHui
3GIO, now known as PCI-Express, is where it's at. Still writing my article on it....look for it soon.

Yeah, when's it going to be in motherboards? The PCI bus seems like it's fast approaching its limits. A RAID array, a USB 2.0 drive, and a high-performance soundcard - that should easily overload the PCI bus.

 

[MadRat]

You can cool anywhere you want with flat copper sheeting. Want the heatsink on the other side? Simply bridge the heat with a copper plate to go up and over the AGP card then place the cooling on the "top" (which is really the backside) of the AGP card. Simple as that.

It pays to have ties to the sheet metal industry.

 

[thorin]

Originally posted by: Howard

They could put holes in the PCBs, too, in dead space.

What about structural integrity?

Dude we're not talking turning into swiss cheese here we're talking a few (like 2 to 6) well placed 1/4" or 3/8" holes to allow natural heat transfer (convection). WTF does a video card have to stand up to? Insertion force .... no biggy. And the slight vibrations from those dinky fans they put on them .... again no biggy.

Thorin

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: MadRat
You can cool anywhere you want with flat copper sheeting. Want the heatsink on the other side? Simply bridge the heat with a copper plate to go up and over the AGP card then place the cooling on the "top" (which is really the backside) of the AGP card. Simple as that.

It pays to have ties to the sheet metal industry.

Interesting thought there... We have a great sheetmetal shop at the Lab I work at. Maybe I can get a copper plate made up for me. I don't think I'll experiment with my GF4 though. Time to buy a GeForce256, they were some hot puppies.

 

[rjcoolpix880]

I too have asked myself that question

in respose to:

Originally posted by: Keego
The AGP port is positioned so the card is OVER the slot in the back of the computer where the monitor plug is... thus if you flipped it over, you'd have to go out the slot OVER the AGP port. Thus ruining all the form factors in todays cases.

the chip could easily be soldered onto the oposing side of the card (rerouting the paths obviously) and just leaving everything else intact.

 

[Tbirdkid]

In the case of the holes in the pcb..... dumb! There are layers and layers and layers of electrical circuits in the pcb all over the place. I dont think that would be a good idea. Now flipping the agp over would be good. Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings. Just my opinion...

 

[thorin]

Originally posted by: Tbirdkid
In the case of the holes in the pcb..... dumb! There are layers and layers and layers of electrical circuits in the pcb all over the place. I dont think that would be a good idea. Now flipping the agp over would be good. Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings. Just my opinion...

IIRC Motherboards are 6 layers (maybe 9 .... I could be being slightly dyslexic). Either way there has to be areas of the board where there's dead space since MBs are much much more complex then video cards.

Thorin

 

[dszd0g]

I haven't checked how many layers a video card has, but I would guess that it is at least 4 layers and has at least one ground and power plane. Creating large holes or slots in a power/ground plane makes the signal have to go around the hole. This adds to the inductance of the signal and degrades the rise time (especially with long traces). Worst case it will cause ringing on the signal. It really depends on how big of vias (holes) one is talking about, but this would be something that would have to be looked into by the board designers.

 

[Coherence]

This happens to be something that I've been wondering about for a long time, now. It really never made sense to me that the cards were designed so that in a standard tower the fan points downward. Heat rises, and therefore it is blowing hot air down, just to have it rise right back up into the card again.

That being the case, I've always thought the parts on AGP cards should be placed on the opposite side to improve cooling.