Why don't we move to Extended ATX?

[LOUISSSSS]

Why don't we make Extended ATX the standard in the motherboard industry?

they're larger and allow for more expansion slots, more space for CPU coolers, more features on the motherboard: usb headers, FW headers, Sata ports, etc etc whatever it may be.

 

[lopri]

Well, even without digging into EATX vs ATX, we have this primitive thing called motherboards vs cases. For god's sake, they can't even have a set standard for front-panel connectors for.. like million years. I do understand that EATX has already been established, but it is quite notable that ATX has resisted so many opponents (many armed with technical superiority). It's an unfortunate byproduct of open standard called PC.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

well if they decided to make high performance/enthusiast targeted E-ATX MB's i'd gladly upgrade to a Full Tower (or any size) case that supports it. Didn't most people stop buying AGP when the faster PCI-E came out? didn't people upgrade to 120mm fans when they became more popular? i sure did.

 

[larciel]

More room = more cost = manuf reluctant to make.

Less qty = higher cost = buyers ignore the product.

I do feel that ATX needs to go and case manuf needs to settle on a damm standard by now

 

[Zap]

Why stop there? If BIG = POWER, let's just go back to room-sized computers. Heck with these tiny EATX shoeboxes.

:roll:

Like I'd haul an EATX system to a LAN party.

 

[imported_Scoop]

If we could even have a standard with the motherboard standoffs, that would be great.

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

I like the way things are now. I have ATX, mATX, and EATX cases in my room right now. I'd hate for all of them to be the size of the EATX box.

 

[hans007]

well... EATX doesnt really have more slots than ATx.

not to mention at least most ATX boards are designed off some platform. so they hav ebasically the same board with deluxe versions with more stuff added on (you can often see empty silk screens on the vlaue versions with different pin compatible chipsets etc).

the quantities of scale of EATX boards, not to mention the PCB cost, and the fact that well really how much more crap do you want on a motherboard?

i mean what is wrong with ATX. ATX for the most part even is obsolete. no one uses it for oem computers because microATX with 4 slots generally is enough unless you need SLI.


so yeah, EATX if they made boards on it i bet woul dbe like $400 for a board because of the low quantities and extra expense just like EATX xeon boards today. at least those have a reason, they need the extra pcb for another cpu socket and ram banks.

 

[AmberClad]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
well if they decided to make high performance/enthusiast targeted E-ATX MB's i'd gladly upgrade to a Full Tower (or any size) case that supports it. Didn't most people stop buying AGP when the faster PCI-E came out? didn't people upgrade to 120mm fans when they became more popular? i sure did.

There's only one that I'm aware of, that Foxconn F1 thing at CES 2008, and that's not even in production. That tells me that unless a particular manufacturer has something especially unusual in mind, like quad-CF with dual-slot cards, there's simply no need for eATX.

Btw, I think I heard a collective howl of dismay from mATX fans when they saw the title of this thread.

 

[PCTC2]

I happen to think (along with probably a good amount of other people) that cases are large enough as it is. You pretty much fit anything you need on a standard ATX board, and if not, then you could be like Asus on their Maximus Extreme board and extend the board by like 3 cm in the EATX direction. The only reason to really migrate to EATX for anyone is for server purposes with dual socket motherboards with an insane amount of FB-DIMM slots and on-board RAID controllers. Or SkullTrail. Period.

 

[oldsystem]

The direction manufacturers are taking is to make things smaller, not bigger.

 

[dawp]

E-atx is used mainly for servers and workstations for a reason. for the most part it's to allow room for multiple cpu sockets and memory for those cpus.. For the average users, atx is big enough. even with quad core, there are very few apps that will utilize all the cores. I don't know about you but I'm satisfied with atx boards for my personal PC.

 

[taltamir]

the notion here is that with an EATX you could make more out of the board... the thing is, things miniaturize over time so its not needed, yea we have more stuff that needs to go on the board, but it takes less space to do so over time. And older useless stuff can go. I have 8 backpanel USB2 connecters which take the same amount of space as a single old printer port.

And my 8 SATA2 plugs take very slightly more room then a single IDE plug (which I have 1 of instead of 2).

And with miniaturization boards now pack more punch, so there is actually less need to put add-in cards. I haven't had to use a pci card in years. The only card in my systems is a video card.

I could even see mATX taking over from ATX completely.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: hans007
well... EATX doesnt really have more slots than ATx.

pwnd!

Originally posted by: AmberClad
Btw, I think I heard a collective howl of dismay from mATX fans when they saw the title of this thread.

I'm sorry! Next time I'll cover my mouth.

Originally posted by: taltamir
I could even see mATX taking over from ATX completely.

WHooo hooo!

Well, I still see all form factors sticking around because each has their uses. I just think that mATX can handle 90% of those uses. Now, with more "enthusiast" oriented mATX boards I think we're moving in the right direction.

 

[Modelworks]

Seriously
When they standardize the front panel connectors, then they will be up to the challenge of a new motherboard standard.

Motherboard connectors are going on 15+ years old and no standard yet.
Whats the problem ?

I would love a motherboard design that is totally modular.
Need a pcie slot there but its pci ? snap it out and swap in a pcie.
Want a different northbridge ? swap it out.

Yeah it will never happen, its only a dream.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
When they standardize the front panel connectors, then they will be up to the challenge of a new motherboard standard.

There are standards for front panel connectors already, just that some motherboard manufacturers and most case manufacturers don't follow it.

1 3 5 7 9
2 4 6 8 10

1 = power LED +
3 = power LED -
2 = HDD LED +
4 = HDD LED -
5-7 = power switch
6-8 = reset switch
9 = no pin (key)
10 = no connection

Front panel audio also is standardized, though with two formats. However, many cases still have individual wires though more and more have just a single keyed block. Motherboards have had standardized audio pinouts for years.

USB is also standardized, but I can remember a time when it wasn't and you'd have to look in the motherboard manual to figure out which was power, ground, + and -. Most common "non-standard" was actually just like the standard, but with the two sides flipped/reversed.

 

[Aluvus]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
Didn't most people stop buying AGP when the faster PCI-E came out?

They did once the motherboard and video card makers began to force them to migrate.

didn't people upgrade to 120mm fans when they became more popular? i sure did.

I would say a majority of people that build their own systems use whatever fans happen to fit the case that they choose. People that want to build quieter systems have made the switch, but the market as a whole is fine with 80 mm.

 

[Soda]

Acutally I still use AGP and have no intention of upgrading anytime soon. As a matter of fact I'm waiting for a ATI HD 3870 to become available on AGP so I can upgrade my old X800 with it.

Atm only HD 3850 is availble for AGP so I'm just have to wait.

--------

On the subject there should be MB's available in E-ATX form factor so people atleast have the possiblity to decide for themself what they want

 

[taltamir]

i have some cases with standardized audio front plugs... most come with loose wires but some come with a block that says "AC97" and another that says "HD". I have even seen one that has both AND loose wires... you plug in the one that you need. Every motherboard I have seen in the past few years supported the AC97 standard, and most supported HD audio as well (set it in bios usually).

The reason your case comes with loose wires is because they are so afraid of a motherboard that does NOT support it for some reason... that or its probably a lot cheaper to individually encase each wire then have them connected together into a single block with a second unit coming out (HD and AC97 should bother be supported by every case). Buy a more expensive case though...

 

[Gaurav Duggal]

I think there is a need to standardise all the connectors ,various types of ports. All the serial ports, printer ports, USB ports, PS2 ports, firewire, etc need to be standardised . Why do we need a PCI ,PCIe as 2 separate ones. I don't know how economically viable this is but this is my viewpoint.

If this happens I'm sure the motherboard's manufacturing cost's will come down and size will decrease. I'm not against ATX or EATX. It's okay for enthusiasts with current generation of hardware.

If u say that ATX or EATX has better cooling then just wait till the thermoelectric coolers come in.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: Gaurav Duggal
I think there is a need to standardise all the connectors ,various types of ports. All the serial ports, printer ports, USB ports, PS2 ports, firewire, etc need to be standardised . Why do we need a PCI ,PCIe as 2 separate ones. I don't know how economically viable this is but this is my viewpoint.

If this happens I'm sure the motherboard's manufacturing cost's will come down and size will decrease. I'm not against ATX or EATX. It's okay for enthusiasts with current generation of hardware.

If u say that ATX or EATX has better cooling then just wait till the thermoelectric coolers come in.

We need PCI and PCI-e because the cost for every company to all at once change their Audio, Video, I/O and any other kind of card over to PCI-e all at once would be too great a shock to the computer economy, we had to make a progresion that is still taking place. We're also still slowly progressing away from legacy ports like serial, parallel and even PS2 ports, the latest step of which will be the X48 mch from intel. Nothing can happen over night in the computer world, thats why even now AMD/ATi ist still making AGP cards. economic viability is exactly the problem.

To OP:
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Brunnis]

Moving over to EATX doesn't sound very compelling. Why would we want huge motherboards in our desktops when there's no real need for it? An EATX board is wider, but what should the space be used for? As said before, 90% of people probably wouldn't need anything else the µATX anyway.

 

[piasabird]

If anything we need smaller motherboards, and smaller drives. I think a lot of things are oversized. However, it might be nice if there was a nice extended version for raid with a backplane that was a little less expensive than a server motherboard. It seems that once you get into raid, that things increase in price significantly. I also dont understand why a rack style case costs so much more; it is just a box with some screw holes.

OEM's resist all change as much as possible.

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: larciel
More room = more cost = manuf reluctant to make.

Less qty = higher cost = buyers ignore the product.

I do feel that ATX needs to go and case manuf needs to settle on a damm standard by now

yes. when you're getting a complex multilayer board made,
with tight trace widths & spaces, there's a big financial incentive
to get as many circuit boards as possible out of one larger panel.

not exactly, but the circuit board cost is approximately proportional
to the board area (other things factor in, like thickness, # of holes,
plated through holes used as conductors (vias), the use of hidden
vias (througholes sandwiched on an inner layer).

sort of like CPU's in that respect, the more die they can get out
of a wafer, the lower the cost (except for yield problems ... etc.)

ATX, uATX, and EATX all seem to be standard by now.