Why don't YOU use *nix, or why have you switched back?

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,888
10
81
Just curious about why more poeple don't use some flavor or another of Linux.. I pesonaly have tried to use it 3 times.. RH 6.0, Mandrake 9.0 and most recently Fedora Core.. The reason I can't stick with it is because the time it takes. I can't understand why I can't just click on something and have it install. I know, I know, I've been spoiled by the ease and use of windows.
I might have stuck with FC but I couldn't find any support for my wireless PCMCIA cards..

*Please don't turn this into a *nix vs. Windows thread, we have plenty of those already..*
 

SilentZero

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2003
5,158
0
76
I do.

My primary OS is debian.
Secondary: Sun Solaris 10

Wifes machine: Ubuntu

And I do maintain a windows PC for games on the occassion and random tasks that require it.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
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I might have stuck with FC but I couldn't find any support for my wireless PCMCIA cards..

What chipsets?

I use Mac OS X and OpenBSD as my primary OSes.

yum install program is easier than any install for Windows...
 

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,888
10
81
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I might have stuck with FC but I couldn't find any support for my wireless PCMCIA cards..

What chipsets?

I use Mac OS X and OpenBSD as my primary OSes.

yum install program is easier than any install for Windows...

Not sure about the chipsets but they are Xterasys cards. Cheap i know. But they work great..
 

phisrow

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2004
1,399
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0
I do run a Linux primary(Ubuntu 5.10) and an OpenBSD secondary(3.8) with an OpenSlug and a Gentoo box in the "just for fun" category; but I do miss games.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
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Originally posted by: IamDavid
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I might have stuck with FC but I couldn't find any support for my wireless PCMCIA cards..

What chipsets?

I use Mac OS X and OpenBSD as my primary OSes.

yum install program is easier than any install for Windows...

Not sure about the chipsets but they are Xterasys cards. Cheap i know. But they work great..

The brand of the card doesn't matter, the chipsets inside do. If they're not working, saying they work great is kinda misleading.

If they're broadcom you'd be out of luck. A lot of the better companies out there (generally read: non-US) are more open, and actually work.
 

networkman

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
10,436
1
0
I just installed Ubuntu 5.10 on a rig I built last night using an AMD Sempron 2400+ and a Biostar motherboard with onboard video/lan/snd.

I'm heavily into Distributed Computing so I wanted to try it for the Einstein@Home project. After a few hours I did finally get it running with the DC client. The best part is that it detected and loaded drivers for EVERYTHING - that part alone was wonderful. And the OS is free so there's no legal concerns as with OS's by Microsoft.

For what I want the machine to do - it's perfect.


 

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,888
10
81
Apperently they are Texas Instrument..

When I had FC installed I found some stuff about (Ndiis Wrapper)? that didn't work.. Maybe it was human error. Way to difficult to make a simple card work.. Windows has spoiled me I know.

link

 

Zugzwang152

Lifer
Oct 30, 2001
12,134
1
0
as i support windows and mac users for a living, i prefer to remain as familiar as possible with those platforms. i use debian linux for basic server apps, like web/ftp, and windows for anything else.
 

The Linuxator

Banned
Jun 13, 2005
3,121
1
0
Originally posted by: IamDavid
Just curious about why more poeple don't use some flavor or another of Linux.. I pesonaly have tried to use it 3 times.. RH 6.0, Mandrake 9.0 and most recently Fedora Core.. The reason I can't stick with it is because the time it takes. I can't understand why I can't just click on something and have it install. I know, I know, I've been spoiled by the ease and use of windows.
I might have stuck with FC but I couldn't find any support for my wireless PCMCIA cards..

*Please don't turn this into a *nix vs. Windows thread, we have plenty of those already..*


Well you know the golden answer when it comes to wireless cards , chipsets info, no manfacturer documentation, chipset revisions, blah blah
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,524
15,405
136
Untill I can achieve doing everything, right out of the box, through a gui I won't be switching.

That doesn't mean I won't try out linux but I won't be using it for my main OS anytime soon.




I still think a majority of linux users and developers see linux only for those that are computer geeks and for those that like the command line. Untill they start making linux for the dumbest people in the world it won't be gaining any major desktop market share.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Originally posted by: IamDavid
Apperently they are Texas Instrument..

When I had FC installed I found some stuff about (Ndiis Wrapper)? that didn't work.. Maybe it was human error. Way to difficult to make a simple card work.. Windows has spoiled me I know.

link

It doesn't have anything to do with Windows or Linux. If a manufacturer doesn't release drivers for a platform you generally can't use it.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: IamDavid
Apperently they are Texas Instrument..

When I had FC installed I found some stuff about (Ndiis Wrapper)? that didn't work.. Maybe it was human error. Way to difficult to make a simple card work.. Windows has spoiled me I know.

link

TI won't release specs or drivers. It's not the fault of the Linux developers, but the fault of TI. If you buy better hardware, it'll work.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: ivwshane
Untill I can achieve doing everything, right out of the box, through a gui I won't be switching.

That doesn't mean I won't try out linux but I won't be using it for my main OS anytime soon.




I still think a majority of linux users and developers see linux only for those that are computer geeks and for those that like the command line. Untill they start making linux for the dumbest people in the world it won't be gaining any major desktop market share.

That has nothing to do with Linux developers, and everything to do with the GUI developers.

And I hope they don't do anything like that. Screw the stupid.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: IamDavid
Apperently they are Texas Instrument..

When I had FC installed I found some stuff about (Ndiis Wrapper)? that didn't work.. Maybe it was human error. Way to difficult to make a simple card work.. Windows has spoiled me I know.

link

TI won't release specs or drivers. It's not the fault of the Linux developers, but the fault of TI. If you buy better hardware, it'll work.

Yep.

For wireless you want to avoid broadcom units or things with TI chipsets.

For wireless look at Intel (think centrino, non-centrino laptops come most often with Broadcom units) and Ralink (and I think some Atheros)

That's for 802.11g.

Here is the list of chipsets using the ralink driver. Be very paraniod about revisions.. Some devices use completely different chipsets between what looks like small changes.
http://ralink.rapla.net/

Don't use the official drivers from websites or whatnot. Use what comes with your distro or from http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Downloads

Of course it's not as nice as Windows.

But if you buy hardware, even if it's used for your Windows stuff, it'll be easier to use Linux when you have to rescue it with a knoppix CD, or use it as a server for a lan party or something.

There are game servers, web servers, streaming media servers, and DVR software aviable for Linux that would cost a lot of money, and licensing headaches, for similar functionality in Windows.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: drag
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: IamDavid
Apperently they are Texas Instrument..

When I had FC installed I found some stuff about (Ndiis Wrapper)? that didn't work.. Maybe it was human error. Way to difficult to make a simple card work.. Windows has spoiled me I know.

link

TI won't release specs or drivers. It's not the fault of the Linux developers, but the fault of TI. If you buy better hardware, it'll work.

Yep.

For wireless you want to avoid broadcom units or things with TI chipsets.

For wireless look at Intel (think centrino, non-centrino laptops come most often with Broadcom units) and Ralink (and I think some Atheros)

That's for 802.11g.

Here is the list of chipsets using the ralink driver. Be very paraniod about revisions.. Some devices use completely different chipsets between what looks like small changes.
http://ralink.rapla.net/

Don't use the official drivers from websites or whatnot. Use what comes with your distro or from http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Downloads

Of course it's not as nice as Windows.

But if you buy hardware, even if it's used for your Windows stuff, it'll be easier to use Linux when you have to rescue it with a knoppix CD, or use it as a server for a lan party or something.

There are game servers, web servers, streaming media servers, and DVR software aviable for Linux that would cost a lot of money, and licensing headaches, for similar functionality in Windows.

I'd even avoid Intel. They don't allow for redistribution of their firmwares.

RALink is great, I own a few of them and they work on just about everything (Windows, OpenBSD, Mac OS X).

RealTek has a wireless chipset (RTL8180L) that's supported under OpenBSD these days too. Unfortunately:
CAVEATS
GCT refuse to release any documentation on their GRF5101 RF transceiver, so it likely doesn't work as well as it otherwise could.

While PCI devices will attach most of them are not able to transmit.

This stubborness doesn't even make sense.

Support Taiwan.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Can't get my TV tuner to work with Linux. 3D apps often crash (yes, I have an NVIDIA card). Too much jumping through hoops to install certain things. But I love more about Linux than I hate about it. The memory management is much better than in XP...I can feel the difference.

Also I'm usually stuck with barebones functionality unless I want to go all-out and compile special drivers. If I want the extra mouse buttons in Windows, I just download Logitech's latest driver and there's a nice GUI where I can configure what each and every button on my mouse does. One problem may be I'm too used to Windows to switch to Linux as an everyday operating system. But as evidenced by my avatar I still like experimenting with it once in a while.

The distributions could do a much better job. Why don't they include drivers for my mouse? I'm fine with Windows not doing it because all I have to do is go to Logitech.com and they always have the latest there. But when I have to go to sourceforge and compile some obscure probably unsupported/experimental driver and edit conf files in vim, I feel all that work should already be done for me. Who knows...maybe I just don't know where to look. It just seems like everything I want to do means embarking on a day-long project of fine-tuning it and getting it to work.
 

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
6,813
1
0
It's my primary OS these days, for both desktop and servers. I posted in another thread about ease of installing Ubuntu 5.10 versus WinXP SP2 on my brand new dell...one worked right after install for all tasks that I do, the other didn't.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
The distributions could do a much better job. Why don't they include drivers for my mouse? I'm fine with Windows not doing it because all I have to do is go to Logitech.com and they always have the latest there. But when I have to go to sourceforge and compile some obscure probably unsupported/experimental driver and edit conf files in vim, I feel all that work should already be done for me. Who knows...maybe I just don't know where to look. It just seems like everything I want to do means embarking on a day-long project of fine-tuning it and getting it to work.

With mice it's not realy up to the distribution.

The trouble is with X.org.. Linux has this HAL, udev and Dbus and other items that makes it easy to detect and configure items. You can plug things in, it'd detect, setup /dev/ interfaces for programs to use, load the drivers, and notify programs of changes to the configurations and such. It's all very slick.. however X.org doesn't take advantage of any of this functionality yet.

So if you want to get control for all your buttons it's not difficult, but you have to find out the syntax and edit your x.org configuration yourself.
Get all your buttons working:
http://www.linux-gamers.net/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=46
Get more percise control with Logitec mice:
http://www.linux-gamers.net/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=47

Definately not something your grandma would want to do, but then again your grandma probably wouldn't want a mouse with 37 buttons on it either.
 

The Linuxator

Banned
Jun 13, 2005
3,121
1
0
Most ppl nowadays have intel mini-pci adapters in their notebooks, most distros will pickup intel adapters out of the box, some of them would require you to download a couple of packages and that's all, intel wifi mini-pci cards are decent cards, and if you get a laptop with a non-Linux compatible card, then it's only 20-30 $ to get a decent linux suppported card and you can sell the one that came with your laptop for the same price so relally not that hard to get wifi running in Linux, I have got Linux running on My Thinkpad in 2 minutes, and the same goes to all laptops with intel cards, also Ralink have excellent Linux support as I hear from those who use them.
Desktop wifi cards are getting more support through time for example Linksys has drivers for their wifi cards, and other manfacturers too.

Graphics support needs some time, but as long as developers are not releasing games that will run on Linux nativley people will have a hard time with gaming on Linux, for example id makes games that run nativley on Linux, I never had an issue with such games, agood example would be wolfenstein return to castle (multiplayer), id released a Linux version of it, and since it uses open GL it was very simple to get it running on my laptop (using intel extreme graphics 2).

For those of you who are pissed that Linux is hard and want to stick to Windows, well bad news applications like windows applications, have a lot of developers who are being paid big to make their apps as much user friendly and fool-proof as possible. Once companies start to release aapplications for Linux andall the software available for windows is available for Linux of all flavoures then you can expect users to start migrating with the open source community likes that or not.
But as it's looking to me right now it will take alot of time for a Linux variant to hit the market in a commercial form that will make ppl want to adopt Linux as a main OS.

Well some might say there Linux commercial Linux distros out there, well I don't think they are doing a good job at it, nor they are priced right (i.e Linspire, SUSE not the open-suse). What a company needs to be sucessful in the OS world as a commercial version ? Well they need to secure themselves with software companies inorder for them to develope apps that are as good if not better than their windows counterparts, they will need alot of companies to secure a good bundle of softeware for them, once windows users see an OS that is as easy for them to use as Windows, has a good substitutes for the apps they are currently using, can be used by the geek and the non-geek then at that point they will say huh ! that doesn't look so bad maybe I ' ll give it a try since it costs much less than windows and it doesn't come with windows's side-effects.

As long as Linux distros and apps are being released by volunteers then don't expect much user friendliness and expect the learning slope to stay high.
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
0
0
Linux/BSD/Unix workalikes are great for servers. I won't use them on the desktop, they're just not ready.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,524
15,405
136
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: ivwshane
Untill I can achieve doing everything, right out of the box, through a gui I won't be switching.

That doesn't mean I won't try out linux but I won't be using it for my main OS anytime soon.




I still think a majority of linux users and developers see linux only for those that are computer geeks and for those that like the command line. Untill they start making linux for the dumbest people in the world it won't be gaining any major desktop market share.

That has nothing to do with Linux developers, and everything to do with the GUI developers.

And I hope they don't do anything like that. Screw the stupid.


LOL, you prove my point exactly.

 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: ivwshane
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: ivwshane
Untill I can achieve doing everything, right out of the box, through a gui I won't be switching.

That doesn't mean I won't try out linux but I won't be using it for my main OS anytime soon.




I still think a majority of linux users and developers see linux only for those that are computer geeks and for those that like the command line. Untill they start making linux for the dumbest people in the world it won't be gaining any major desktop market share.

That has nothing to do with Linux developers, and everything to do with the GUI developers.

And I hope they don't do anything like that. Screw the stupid.


LOL, you prove my point exactly.

Nah, I was just playing.

One benefit to Linux, BSD, and possibly open solaris is all of the options. You can have a bare bones sort of system, where X is only there to look at pr0n and have multiple command line windows on the screen at once. You can also use different software so that interaction with the command line is negligible (or at least some people are working on that).

And none of it has to do with Linux, the kernel. Hell, it doesn't even have a whole lot to do with Linux, the operating system. It has a lot more to do with the interface software. :shocked:? No, you shouldn't be. ? Maybe a little.

Seriously though, userfriendliness has nothing to do with Linux, or BSD, or Solaris. It has to do with Gnome, and KDE, and XFCE. These are the groups that would have to work on making things easier for people that don't want to know anything about their computer except which icon brings them to thier favorite donkey site.

The Linux and BSD developers (the ones working on the guts) probably don't care either way. They just want a better OS. :beer:
 

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,888
10
81
The Linux and BSD developers (the ones working on the guts) probably don't care either way. They just want a better OS. :beer:

Better OS? For who? It doesn't make sense to build on something no one wants, can't use. I know some people use it along with some corporations but in the end wouldn't they all benefit if it was more accessible to everyone?
To me the argument seems crazy.. It would be like all the car companies not wanting to put power steering in there cars back in the day because they were to busy working on the rest of the car..
 
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