Why even consider anything but the Duron for a new system?

[lowtech1]

I don't see the P3 priced any lower untill Intell compleatly kill off Celeron. They can't have P3 = Cel price

But, myself would like to have a dual P3 600/650 and OC them to 800/865mhz.

 

[Linh]

I'll stick with Intel. I've had my be6-2 for god knows how long (at least 3 processor upgrades), and it's still usable. I plan on carrying it over to my next upgrade, hopefully p700 -> 900+.

 

[Zeroumus[DH]]

"""Yes! AMD has a better product! Do you think Intel is asleep? The best processor in existence isn't any better than the motherboard, etc, that it goes on."""


It's called K7M

My athlon goes on good with my K7M, hell, it even fits in the slot rather nicely too. and kicks some INtel arse to boot


On the other hand, you can go with a real winner, Intel, who insists on giving us useless faetures such as, AGP 4x, RAMBUS, WEB OUTFITTER SITE, making an system arcitecture where the Video card has more ~bandwidth than the CPU~, has a difficult time with the BX133 concept, who's only success seems to be intergrated chipsets as of late, spends all the money from cpu purchues to educate the gorssly lazy carmack on how to use SIMD, this list just goes on and on

 

[thedarkwolf]

pricewatch
duron 650 $108
PIII 650 $185
duron 600 $78
PIII 600 $184

so all but the top of the line duron are around halfprice then

 

[Tominator]

Modus We only really disagree on the point of a 'Duty' to buy from a smaller company.

If you do not think the color of the straws matter, you've never sold them to a woman. In a way this makes my point. The pleasing color of the straw might just be the little extra that makes the sale.

 

[bozack]

Strange, but as a consumer I don't feel that it is my "duty" to support the little guy, and most of the time I don't. Personally if I was to build a system a duron or a k7 would most likely be my last choice, with a new celeron being my furst followed by an older coppermine, I am not into computers for the latest/greatist thing but instead the most trustworthy, affordable option. While Amd has kept prices competitive, they are just still more than I would like to spend for what I was getting-but that is just my opinion

 

[prontospyder]

thedarkwolf:

Let me update your price with shipping included:

Pricewatch OEM 650 Mhz Duron: $118.95 shipped
Onvia Retail 650 Mhz PIII: $171 shipped

the half price theory doesn't stick for the low-end too.

 

[Modus]

SSP,

<<And I don?t think anyone have a duty as a &quot;person&quot; to support the small company. Its up to the individual.>>

I'm not advocating a consumer-ethics gestapo squad that will break down your door if you don't act intelligently. Obviously you as a consumer can do whatever you want, even if, by supporting a larger company who offers nothing of value over a smaller company, you end up pushing the industry toward a monopoly that in unhealthy for everyone. I suppose it's your choice.

<<I will definitely upgrade my classic Athlon to a Duron. Just waiting for better mobo support.>>

Actually you might want to wait even longer. I don't think you'll see much of an improvement. My main point was that people buying a new system should stick with the Duron. In your case, such an incremental upgrade might not be worth it.

Tominator,

<<If you do not think the color of the straws matter, you've never sold them to a woman. In a way this makes my point. The pleasing color of the straw might just be the little extra that makes the sale.>>

Oh brother. First of all, anyone who cares about the color of their straw is a likely candidate for the kind of experiments that brought us Prozac. Second, the whole point of my analogy -- which you are stubornly ignoring -- was not that yellow straws are better than white straws or that Joe's Burgers has the best recipe for ice cubes, but rather that there are many situations when two companies offer products that are essentially equal from the consumer's perspective. In those markets, it is the consumer's imperative as an intelligent person to realize that he will be better off buying from the smaller company. Comprende?

pronotspyder,

Please, don't try to argue that the P3 is to price competitve with any modern CPU. It's just pathetic. I mean, come on, a P3/650 would have to be 70% faster than a Duron 650 to make up for its added cost. That's insane. Even factoring in the meager extra expense for a KT133 motherboard, the Duron's price/performance still rapes everything else.

Modus

 

[DaddyG]

Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents. I'm waiting for the mobo's with the integrated video. Looks likes these babies will perform pretty well. Not up to big time 3D gaming though. I'm always interested in the value solution with good upgrade potential. Duron first, T/Bird latter. It's goodness to me.

 

[Tominator]

Modus You've failed to make any good reason to give a smaller company business over a larger one based on size! If I were to propose that in any sales meeting, I'd get laughed out of there!
You know a lot about computers! Leave marketing to someone else.

 

[prontospyder]

Modus:

True, the Duron will be the best solution for a brand new computer...but for my situation (having a coppermine ready BX motherboard), going with the coppermine is still the best for me.

 

[SykoFreak]

<<Joe's Burgers has the best recipe for ice cubes>>

Hehe. Funny. I never even payed attention to ANY of the characteristics of my straws. As long as it's functional and sanitary, it works for me. &quot;Don't go to McDonald's! Go to Burger King! They have better straws!&quot; LOL!

 

[BenSkywalker]

Tominator-

You have been limited to one company, call them company A, for years for any high end merchandise that you sell say TVs. They have always charged a premium in the range of 600%-700% over the lower end products and refused to budge on their unit price because you couldn't purchase from anyone else. They were the only maker who included digital comb filter, 800 lines of res etc.

Company B enters the picture and has a product that can fully compete with Company A, in fact, many people consider it better in many respects. It offers five speaker simulated surround, and also includes the other features such as digital comb filter and high resolution that company A offers. Consumers aren't terribly picky as they don't understand the finer details of such things, but they see clearly that both companies have clearly comparable, though not identical products.

Company A quickly reduces prices by a very large margin to compete/crush Company B or at the very least regulate them to second tier status once again.

Now it is time to decide on your purchasing for November and December for an international multi billion dollar electronics retailer, extremely crucial times in the consumer electronics department, what do you do? On the one hand Company A has the brand name that some people are looking for, but Company B offers like quality for a lower price. A smart person in this position orders large shipments from both companies to assure that at least short term, you will keep pricing pressure on company A.

Continued long term competition helps everything in this picture with the exception of profit margins for company A. When Sony launched CD players they carried enormous premiums, now they are what amounts to a commodity and their overall profits from sales has gone up a sizeable amount.

This does carry over into pretty much every market. Maintaining at least two competitors assures both better products and pricing, as long as you aren't falsely inflating a non deserving(inferior) products marketshare or presence.

BTW- This is more merchandising then marketing, several years experience for myself.

 

[prontospyder]

Thanks for clearing things up Red.

 

[Tripleshot]

Red Dawn

And you would neglect doing your duty?

Shame,shame on you!

What would would your mother say?

LOL

 

[Tom]

Dear Modus,

You said...
Even initial Durons can do 700 > 950 MHz with ease; with further yield improvements, 1+ GHz should be common.

From Anandtech http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1277
In spite of all of this, our Duron 700, running at 1.70v and finally at 1.85v would not overclock past 700MHz.
and
Since it may not be possible, especially with future revisions of the Thunderbird &amp; Duron, to overclock your CPUs as we have been able to with our engineering samples...

I was just wondering, who's right about overclocking the Duron, you or today's Aandtech tests? And if Anandtech is right, lets consider the Celeron 2 566 oc'd to 850

cheaper than a Duron 700
faster than a Duron 700
works with BX motherboards, still the fastest most reliable chipset

These seem like good reasons to me to consider something other than the Duron.

 

[Prodigy^]

Dead Parrot Sketch: yup, things have taken quite a turn with the latest update

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=27&amp;threadid=197609

 

[HepDude]

Then how is it that dealers are selling Durons &quot;pre-tested at 900mhz&quot;?

 

[Hyper99]

Let look back a few years.
Intel use to be a much better CPU right? and they charges as much as they pleases.
Some are willing to pay anything for better CPU
That how they are so expensive.
It funny how a P233mhz cost as much as a K6-2 550mhz
But K6-2 is at least 2.5 times faster
The definite choice would be K6-2
The Duron was made to compete with Celeron not PIII
as the price differences are way off
say Thunderbird Vs PIII
and Athlon is also Vs PIII
I got this info off AMD websites so go there and maybe do a little
research?
Check again with pricewatch between Celeron and Duron
and you will see similar prices.http://www.amd.com/news/prodpr/20109.html
Here they say it is 25 percent faster then celeron at same clocked speed. Hmm I wonder if it true?
Maybe a little but I doubt it that many percentage
Well they were wrong about K6-2 being faster then a Celeron
so how can I take their word again for the second time.
Maybe 25 percent faster eh on thing that Used 3dnow technology
noticed celeron have weak 3dnow.
Benchmark such as Sisoft Sandra that give PR rating is quite correct
that is how I can tell that a Cyrix Pr 333 is actually PR300
Who do you trust more the benchmark or what they said with little proof or even at all.

 

[da loser]

Hepdude, either some sellers were given preproduction boards like Tom's so they can test out their durons(possibly unlocked just like Tom's) or they're blatantly lying.
Or maybe its all a hoax to give us a heart attack and everyone is in on it except us, haha.

 

[damocles]

Who would consider it?
Me
The Tbird is quite a bit quicker in a lot of benches and is still inexpensive. When the details come out for the Tbird 750s with the 900 core i know what i would rather have.

 

[Tripleshot]

damocles

I hate to burst your bubble,but you are wrong about the T-bird being cheaper. When you add on the cost of upgraded power supply for the case you put the over priced socketA motherboard in and the higher priced cooling options necesssry for T-bird and then couple it's lack of o/c ability and its marginal performance benifit(if any) over Intel and via or BX or 815, I would conclude Intel is a better performance path.

BTW, Isn't Intel announcing new pricing on the 16th?

 

[Guygye]

Sadly I'd have to agree with Tripleshot

With Duron and Thunderbird Loosing their ability to overclock, it's back to Intel for me, at least I can still manipulate the FSB.

 

[403Forbidden]

Hyper 99 is a good spokesman

 

[damocles]

Tripleshot

My 'bubble' is far from burst. Although you may well be right.

Even though i have a BX board, i want a new system soon anyway.A P3(700+) Mobo/cpu combo vs a Tbird MB/Cpu combo is still in favour of the Tbird (at least in my country). I consider a high quality power supply to be an investment, so that isnt a factor for me. I also dont mind shelling out some $$ for cooling.

I will wait for the Intel price review, because a reasonable P3 price drop might influence me to buy a P3. BX is cetainly the best o/clocking platform. However i have seen a number of flaky Intel CPUs at 800+ mhz, so i dont see a huge overclock as a sure thing, even with a good motherboard.

Anyway, my initial comment wasn't directed at P3s. What i was meaning was.... Looking at the Benchmarks. 'If' i were going for a Socket A system, i would invest a few more dollars in the T-Bird vs the Duron. because for the extra $$$, the Tbird is quite a lot quicker in number of significant tests and because the Tbird 'May' show some O/Clock potential in the future