Why go with SM3.0 today?

[DaveBaumann]

Originally posted by: housecat
They are kind to BOTH camps here, no one gets in trouble unless they blatantly personally attack someone and even then it has to be pretty obscene (ya I've done it and had to sit in the corner)

Yes, this is the principle we use as well.

Still, you've not answered the question - what does this have to do with our article? You keep refusing to answer that and keep trying to deflect it with other issues - do you have an agenda of your own?

 

[imported_Noob]

Nobody downplays the technology. People would just prefer an overall performance enhancement with most games then IQ improvement in 2 or 3 games. If SM 3.0 was in a lot more games then most people would think more of SM 3.0.

But I would think if ATI supported SM 3.0, most people not going the SLI route would be getting an X800/X850?

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: DaveBaumann

Originally posted by: housecat
They are kind to BOTH camps here, no one gets in trouble unless they blatantly personally attack someone and even then it has to be pretty obscene (ya I've done it and had to sit in the corner)

Yes, this is the principle we use as well.

Still, you've not answered the question - what does this have to do with our article? You keep refusing to answer that and keep trying to deflect it with other issues - do you have an agenda of your own?

I didnt know it was me you were hounding. I'll give you your answer.

It has EVERYTHING to do with your article, if you or your site is percieved as being biased then you might as well flush it down the crapper captain.

I kinda took quotes like these

B3D posting something that is unflattering to nV?!? Say it isn't so! </sarcasm>

And many others I wont both reposting as SIGNALS that you MIGHT have something wrong there chipper!
Theres a lot of other examples too, check that link I gave you as well.
You got a problem on your hands it appears.

You keep asking and I'm giving you your answer.

You (who is not possible to seperate from your site) are viewed biased. Therefore since it is impossible to seperate the site from you.. since it IS your "dictatorship" as you put it, according to the gentleman, then how you are percieved is going to affect how the SITE is percieved by people.

Therefore your ARTICLES will be percieved and scrutinzed for BIAS as well.

Like I said, like Driverheaven.org.. you come off appearing biased and you might as well flush all your years of work down the crapper. Sounds like you have a little anti-crew of your own growing. So worry about them, not me.
Your image has EVERYTHING to do with your site. Reread the link I posted, reread the thread if you dont get it by now.
You wanted an answer.

I wish you wouldnt have been so forceful in demanding an answer, I dont give a damn about you OR your site.. but now I look like the bad guy cuz I had to lay it out for you.

I'm happy here man, if you reread the thread I just asked a question based off of what I saw Rollo post here with the "falling out" and from what I'd read from respected members here.

I want nothing to do with your drama, I just asked a question posed to my AT comrades.
I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but i tried to pull out of this little Spanish Inquisition because I want nothing to do with it. THATS my AGENDA. :disgust: You get it yet? I dont care about B3D or your going ons. No "AGENDA".

From what I've read about you, as far as having a hidden agenda sounds like we have a case of kettle calling pot here. You'd better check YOUR manifesto for a hidden agenda.
I asked a question, thats it.


I should NOT have to explain why people here are ridiculing you or your site. Or how that relates to the article. I think its pretty clear and pretty plain cut how it relates.
If you dont like my answer fine, but thats how I see it. If you want to improve PR, you are looking into the wrong guy cuz I have -2% interest in any other site than AT.
Might want to reread that link I posted and do some pondering.
Concentrating on one guy (me), when the problem might be staring you in the mirror pal isnt goign to fix the growing disgust for you and your site.

That said I have no 'agenda' or disgust for your site. I dont care and wanted out of this because I dont really care about any of this or your site. I just wanted to know if that whole thing was a hoax in the end and to hear my fellow ATers opinions. I'm an Anandtecher for life, I just asked a simple question based off of my other AT fellows comments.

I tried to drop it by "deflecting the issue" as you put it.. I dont want involved in this.. I DONT CARE. Now leave me alone.

For the record, my agenda- AT, SLI, and the latest DirectX stanadard 9C.
Brought to you by the letter N and V.
Nothing devious there, just superior technology.
Thank you.

 

[DaveBaumann]

Housecat, you've just rehashed the same thing - your posts and DP's post bears no relation to the article; the question was how was the article "biased" or "unflattering" to NVIDIA? It wasn't, it was a simple guide to the features and benchmarking - it strikes me that these comments were made without simply even reading it, instead you are basing your opinions off of second hand information.

Its curious that you say you want nothing to do with it, when you brought it up and continued to in subsequent posts.

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: DaveBaumann
Housecat, you've just rehashed the same thing - you posts and DP's post bears not relation to the article; the question was how was the article "biased" or "unflattering" to NVIDIA? It wasn't, i was a simple guide to the features and benchmarking - it strikes me that these comments were made without simply reading it, instead you are basing you opinions off of second hand information.

Its curious that you say you want nothing to do with it, you you brought it up and continued to in subsequent posts.

Yeah and look who keeps poking and prodding the fire?
Kettle calling pot?

Someone posts a very interesting post like Gstanfor did.. I have a right to make a comment dont I?
Thats right, I do. OK, thank you and goodbye.

You'll notice I went on to explain how yet another SM3 thread MIGHT have gone off track, in case you didnt notice the thread was about WHY GO WITH SM3 TODAY.

Not about whatever you say your article was about. This thread is about why go with SM3 today.

So its not just me and DP who "got it all wrong", you gotta go after the OP as well.. hes the one who said it related to "why go with SM3 today"

See thats the thing, I dont give a damn. I post what I post, I see something interesting.. I get a question that comes to mind instigated off of what someone said in the thread (DP in this case) and I ask a question.

So you can pinpoint me and DP, and the OP for "missing the point" to your article, but I dont care.
I do what I want PAL.
I do what I feel.
You dont own me here.

Like I said, go bug one of the other guys about "missing the point" to the article.
So what the thread went offtopic, the OP set the topic AND tone when he named it "WHY GO WITH SM3 TODAY"

So this thread is most definitely NOT about what you say its about, its not about a simple guide about features and benchmarking.

And heres why: you yourself made it that way. The reason this thread went off topic is YOUR fault, you created the image of your site that all these guys are talking about here and in the link I posted.

I just asked a simple question. Sorry you are frustrated because of the situation you created.



And you want my point of view on all of it? You want MY agenda?
Because both you and REV are really torquing me off, and you cant fit both your big heads in your forums therefore one of you had to go. Yeah thats the way I see it.
NO ONE is going to intimidate or scare me into not saying something I want to say.. neither of you mean JACK to me buddy.. and I might mean less to you.. congratu(insert obscenity)ulations.

But guess what, you both as much as a pile of dung here, just like the rest of us. So deflate yer egos, no one really cares as much about your goings-on as you might be pretending.

What are you going to do? Run to Anand and cry because you are getting beat up in his forums? Face it like a man. You are biased and your site is being destroyed slowly through the bias being shown cunningly through the forums over the years.

I dont fear either you or rev, or your little fanboys.
Your like the rich spoiled kid who just stepped into the hood.
Walking around like you guys deserve some kind of respect. I spit in your faces. You're barking up the wrong tree man, I am not backing down from no one.

I'll back down to "nobodies" like Ackmed and Rollo before I back down to you two. They've earned my respect. Those are some good guys.
I'm cooling off. Like I said, leave me alone man.
kthxbye, I've had enough.

 

[Gstanfor]

To be fair to Dave and Beyond3D, the article as it stands seems entirely reasonable to me.

Perhaps consideration will be given to including Abba Zabba's Soft Shadow demo also, since it is a synthetic benchmark with a clearly defined purpose and Beyond3D has always had a policy of using such programs to assist in evaluating technology in the past.

As I've said above, you won't find Beyond3D's bias in the articles themselves. You need to read the forums over a period of time to see peoples true stance in all of this.

Personally, I don't much care about Beyond3D myself, I only went there (though I knew of the site and occasionally looked around prior to this) when Dave replied to me in the nVnews forums a couple of years ago. I didn't like him or his assertions much then and time hasn't altered my opinion appreciably, only confirmed it beyond doubt.

 

[DaveBaumann]

So this thread is most definitely NOT about what you say its about, its not about a simple guide about features and benchmarking.

No, the article refenced in this thrad is a simple guide - my question was how that relates to being biased.

Like I said, go bug one of the other guys about "missing the point" to the article.

I did. Read my first post in the thread.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: DaveBaumann

So this thread is most definitely NOT about what you say its about, its not about a simple guide about features and benchmarking.

No, the article refenced in this thrad is a simple guide - my question was how that relates to being biased.

Like I said, go bug one of the other guys about "missing the point" to the article.

I did. Read my first post in the thread.

Dave, since your here. Got any comments about "Why go with SM3.0 today?" ?. If not, why don't you guys move this to a new thread or at least OT.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: fierydemise
No company will release a game that only supports SM3 until ATI has released a card that supports SM3, all game companies are slaves to the mighty dollar they wouldn't cut their potential market in half. By the time that happens the current nVidia cards will be low end/budget cards, SM3 is the tech of tomorrow so why use it has a selling point today?

Errr, you do realize that Splinter Cell Chaos Theory is either SM1.1 or SM3/

plus technologies of tomoro always sell well wether it works or not, the consumer loves to think they have something cutting edge and better than everyone elses coz they have tomorrows technology today,

using it as a selling point makes perfect sense today to lure people into buying your product and not the competition's

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Bottom line is, it's better to have something than not having something (For all you wise arse's out there, I'm talking about SM3.0 full compliance and not herpes. ) and wishing you did when the situation arises.

If you think you (whomever you are) can deal with a card that does not support the latest technologies, then go for it. And don't get frustrated as time goes by when more and more titles emerge and there is another thing your card can't do. And then another, and another. Even if you (whomever you are) don't think that this will happen, why force yourself to buy a lesser card? It makes absolutely no sense to buy a card (X800/50 whatever) and expect it to be able to do everything a card with more features can do (video processor aside) forever. Riddick, Splinter Cell 3, FarCry HDR is just the tip of the iceburg. I can't prove to you that I'm right, but you can't prove I'm wrong either. But I would rather be prepared than not. And I am. 6800GTOC. My ASUS X800XTPE sits on the shelf, I sh!t you not. I tried selling it at a reasonable price in FS/FT, but nobody wants it.

To the OP. Your original question, "Why go with SM3.0 today?" is easy to answer. Had you phrased it this way, "Why not go with SM3.0 today?", nobody can give a valid reason. And the answer of, "Because you don't need SM3.0", is not valid so pay no heed. Not everybody "needs" a kickass video card let alone "needs" to play games on a computer.
But we want these things don't we.... ALL of Nv's 6 series cards are SM3.0 compliant. No matter which one you choose. from the lowly 6200TC to SLI'd 6800Ultra Extreme's. Pick and choose your price range, there's plenty to choose from.

The answer to your original question is another question. "Why not?".

How can I avoid this sad state of affairs Keys? I don't want to miss out on seeing these new effects?

(just kidding)

BTW- WTF? No one wanted my old Asus X800XT PE?!?!? For Christs sake, it's about the coolest card I ever owned?!?!?

I kid you not my friend. Not one single bite even at that terrific price. I think I just might keep it as a novelty item. Maybe throw it in my sons PC. I'll give props to the card. It's fast. But so is my GT which I prefer for the obvious reasons stated numerously in this thread. Oh, by the way Rollo, that card did infact reach X850XT speeds pretty easily without artifacts. I'm guessing the ATI Silencer 4 helps a bit in getting it there. Then again, its only a 20 Mhz o/c on the core and 30MHz on the memory. Very slight o/c.
I guess all this SM3.0 buzz is really sinking in to these guys in here. This x800XTPE is the second fastest ATI card currently made, but nobody wants it? Hmmm.....

 

[Creig]

Dave, you may as well just give up. Housecat is like this ALL the time. If a card doesn't have "Nv" printed somewhere on it, then it's a piece of trash and anyone who owns one is an ATI fanboy.

 

[doublejbass]

Originally posted by: XBoxLPU
AOE 3


'Nuff Said

I won't play it.

'nuff said.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: doublejbass

Originally posted by: XBoxLPU
AOE 3


'Nuff Said

I won't play it.

'nuff said.

(Just get it through your heads that the significance of SM3 is minimal at best.)

How very profound. That's deep man. Even if what you say in parenthesis was true, I would rather have minimal significance than none. Get THAT through your calcium deposited skullcap.

 

[doublejbass]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: doublejbass

Originally posted by: XBoxLPU
AOE 3


'Nuff Said

I won't play it.

'nuff said.

(Just get it through your heads that the significance of SM3 is minimal at best.)

How very profound. That's deep man. Even if what you say in parenthesis was true, I would rather have minimal significance than none. Get THAT through your calcium deposited skullcap.

Sure, but given the choice between better performance or SM3 at the same price point (or, if the ATI card is less, like it was for me) then you'd be an idiot to spend money on such minimal significance. How much calcium is in my skull is none of your damn business.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Some have mentioned they see no bias in the reviews@B3D, just the forums, I see bias the moment I peruse the test setup. B3D studiously avoids nV chipsets in favor of Via despite the fact that nV has been considered by enthusiasts, the chipset of choice for the AMD desktop platform since nforce2. It is the little things that speak volumes sometimes.

BTW, I did read the article and quite frankly, the screenshots suck. Could you have picked a crappier wall to use for the comparison??? :roll: xtknight's screenshots are a much better way to see the differences It is a bandwidth thing that doesn't permit similar comparisons, right? Couldn't you at least use surfaces like xt did that show how the mortar comes out, or the bricks in the street? Give me a fvckin' break.</bashing>

 

[imported_Reverend]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
LOL, Hello Reverend. I don't know how or why your name or Dave Baumann's was brought up here. And, no need to tell the Pope anything..... The almighty knows all...

Anyways, if you would be so kind to chime in, the topic is "Why go with SM3.0 today?".
Take care bud.

From whose point of view? The video card buyers' or a developers? It's important to know the difference, and the relationship between the difference. The way this thread has been going (and I hate the fact that my name got dragged into this mud-slinging here in this thread), I have lost touch of what this is really about.

If you would spare the time to visit my temporary site, perhaps what Tim Sweeney said in my 20th April post (a short Q&A with Tim) may be enlightening wrt "Why go with SM3 today?". In that Q&A of mine with Tim, it should be clear which particular Q&A is relevant to this topic.

This topic is basically based on one game, SC:CT, which implements SM3 features. What's important is not whether anyone should "go with SM3.0 today?" but whether developers would be smart enough to live within existing limits. I personally think SC:CT is "smart SM3.0 programming and thinking" -- it pushes SM3.0 while attempting to maintain reasonable framerates. Back when the R300 was released, maybe someone should ask, a little while later, "Why go with SM2.0 today?". As good as the R300 is/was, I can bet you any developer can make the R300 crawl using SM2.0 features. During the R300's useful lifetime, however, no developer (or not many) did. Why?

If you don't already know, and judging by the type of responses in this thread, it appears to me that the folks that participated in this thread really don't know what they're asking, beyond using a buzzword like "SM3.0"

My 2 cents and if you don't get what I mean, sorry, I won't elaborate. I am The Reverend, I am better than everyone here and you can all go to hell for all I care! (well, actually, I would like to go to bed now, it's 11.30PM here in Malaysia!).

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Creig
Dave, you may as well just give up. Housecat is like this ALL the time. If a card doesn't have "Nv" printed somewhere on it, then it's a piece of trash and anyone who owns one is an ATI fanboy.

edit. forget it.
i'm giving up on you.

cant wait to see you get owned again. you call others fanboy.
you and some others here severely remind me of a saying.. i believe it involves a kettle calling a pot black.
i'll see you around here soon, im sure boy.

 

[imported_Reverend]

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: Creig
Dave, you may as well just give up. Housecat is like this ALL the time. If a card doesn't have "Nv" printed somewhere on it, then it's a piece of trash and anyone who owns one is an ATI fanboy.

Whats wrong with you man? Do you have a problem or something? This isnt about NV/ATI. Can you even read?
You are just tired of getting the smack laid down on you by myself and Rollo. Get over yourself.

Mr Housecat, you've said you (basically) don't give a sh*t about Beyond3D and/or Dave (and me as well). Can you stop this damn long-winded-posts-whining of yours that runs contrary to what you said? If you don't give a sh*t about B3D/Dave, then ignore him and stop repeatedly parking your sh*t in this thread. You're annoying. Go away.

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Reverend

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: Creig
Dave, you may as well just give up. Housecat is like this ALL the time. If a card doesn't have "Nv" printed somewhere on it, then it's a piece of trash and anyone who owns one is an ATI fanboy.

Whats wrong with you man? Do you have a problem or something? This isnt about NV/ATI. Can you even read?
You are just tired of getting the smack laid down on you by myself and Rollo. Get over yourself.

Mr Housecat, you've said you (basically) don't give a sh*t about Beyond3D and/or Dave (and me as well). Can you stop this damn long-winded-posts-whining of yours that runs contrary to what you said? If you don't give a sh*t about B3D/Dave, then ignore him and stop repeatedly parking your sh*t in this thread. You're annoying. Go away.

Im not going anywhere. Want to escort me?
Creig/myself is a completely seperate issue. You dont even know what we're talking about noobcake. I was speaking to him, you werent being spoken to REV.

Might want to deflate your head a little bit there

. I am The Reverend, I am better than everyone here and you can all go to hell for all I care! (

ROFL!!!!
what a fkn joke man. you are seriously a clown.

you got owned by this wavey dave cuz your a punk too, and you walked on like a LB. now you really are nobody and you know it.

when is yesterdays garbage going to leave the thread? you are nothing now. you are just big in your own mind.

seriously man, daves sites credibility is becoming garbage but who are you?
dave is like 10x whatever you think you are in your mind pal. your just a straightup loser boosting your confidence because you arent jack without dave/b3d at all.

and hey man, put a counter on your page so we can see just how important you are dude!
or are you counting the hits on one hand?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

*Enjoying the bonfire, popcorn in hand*

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
*Enjoying the bonfire, popcorn in hand*

i dont even care about these two clowns.. at least dave is SOMEBODY.. though they could both couldnt fit their heads through a doorway. its just about disgusting.

im cutting this off soon.. dave is conducting himself with some class that i myself am not exhibiting, which i admire.. i just care less about class, but its admirable
but this guy is a real tool. he gets his skooled on b3d and now he waltzs in here like he walks on water.

yah right.

i want to see a counter on this rev's new page and see how many ppl actually visit that crackpot site.

i got a better idea, how about both of you go RUIN your OWN forums.. oh wait you already did that.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Reverend

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
LOL, Hello Reverend. I don't know how or why your name or Dave Baumann's was brought up here. And, no need to tell the Pope anything..... The almighty knows all...

Anyways, if you would be so kind to chime in, the topic is "Why go with SM3.0 today?".
Take care bud.

From whose point of view? The video card buyers' or a developers? It's important to know the difference, and the relationship between the difference. The way this thread has been going (and I hate the fact that my name got dragged into this mud-slinging here in this thread), I have lost touch of what this is really about.

If you would spare the time to visit my temporary site, perhaps what Tim Sweeney said in my 20th April post (a short Q&A with Tim) may be enlightening wrt "Why go with SM3 today?". In that Q&A of mine with Tim, it should be clear which particular Q&A is relevant to this topic.

This topic is basically based on one game, SC:CT, which implements SM3 features. What's important is not whether anyone should "go with SM3.0 today?" but whether developers would be smart enough to live within existing limits. I personally think SC:CT is "smart SM3.0 programming and thinking" -- it pushes SM3.0 while attempting to maintain reasonable framerates. Back when the R300 was released, maybe someone should ask, a little while later, "Why go with SM2.0 today?". As good as the R300 is/was, I can bet you any developer can make the R300 crawl using SM2.0 features. During the R300's useful lifetime, however, no developer (or not many) did. Why?

If you don't already know, and judging by the type of responses in this thread, it appears to me that the folks that participated in this thread really don't know what they're asking, beyond using a buzzword like "SM3.0"

My 2 cents and if you don't get what I mean, sorry, I won't elaborate. I am The Reverend, I am better than everyone here and you can all go to hell for all I care! (well, actually, I would like to go to bed now, it's 11.30PM here in Malaysia!).

If you did not want to, or could not answer my question (I wanted to know YOUR point of view otherwise I would not have asked YOU. Not developers, not consumers.) just say so. I doubt I'll be visiting your temp site after your response here. You really know how to stick your foot in it, I'll give you that. There are people here at AT that know more than you do, and less than you do. It's not all of one or the other. However I bear no ill will towards ya and wish you luck with your new digs.

keys

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: Reverend

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
LOL, Hello Reverend. I don't know how or why your name or Dave Baumann's was brought up here. And, no need to tell the Pope anything..... The almighty knows all...

Anyways, if you would be so kind to chime in, the topic is "Why go with SM3.0 today?".
Take care bud.

From whose point of view? The video card buyers' or a developers? It's important to know the difference, and the relationship between the difference. The way this thread has been going (and I hate the fact that my name got dragged into this mud-slinging here in this thread), I have lost touch of what this is really about.

If you would spare the time to visit my temporary site, perhaps what Tim Sweeney said in my 20th April post (a short Q&A with Tim) may be enlightening wrt "Why go with SM3 today?". In that Q&A of mine with Tim, it should be clear which particular Q&A is relevant to this topic.

This topic is basically based on one game, SC:CT, which implements SM3 features. What's important is not whether anyone should "go with SM3.0 today?" but whether developers would be smart enough to live within existing limits. I personally think SC:CT is "smart SM3.0 programming and thinking" -- it pushes SM3.0 while attempting to maintain reasonable framerates. Back when the R300 was released, maybe someone should ask, a little while later, "Why go with SM2.0 today?". As good as the R300 is/was, I can bet you any developer can make the R300 crawl using SM2.0 features. During the R300's useful lifetime, however, no developer (or not many) did. Why?

If you don't already know, and judging by the type of responses in this thread, it appears to me that the folks that participated in this thread really don't know what they're asking, beyond using a buzzword like "SM3.0"

My 2 cents and if you don't get what I mean, sorry, I won't elaborate. I am The Reverend, I am better than everyone here and you can all go to hell for all I care! (well, actually, I would like to go to bed now, it's 11.30PM here in Malaysia!).

Why? Simple because nVidia actively provides massive help to software developers. ATi provides hardly any by comparison. THAT is why nVidia has done more for the games/3d industry tan anone else by a mile.

A while back I asked on B3D what had ATi done to advance 3D gaming since becoming top dog with R300. The answer back then was "very little". Nowadays you could say "3DC", but that's about it.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: housecat

Whats wrong with you man? Do you have a problem or something? This isnt about NV/ATI. Can you even read?
You are just tired of getting the smack laid down on you by myself and Rollo. Get over yourself.

I don't ever recall getting "the smack laid down" on me by you. Why? Because unlike you, I don't go around talking crap and making statements that can't be backed up with some sort of proof.

Can't you EVER participate in a topic without throwing your 13 year old "tough guy" routine into it?


* I don't recall ever getting "the smack laid down" on me by Rollo either for that matter, but I'm not bringing his and my issues into this "discussion".

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
A while back I asked on B3D what had ATi done to advance 3D gaming since becoming top dog with R300. The answer back then was "very little". Nowadays you could say "3DC", but that's about it.

I'd say NV and ATI have both done a lot simply through competition. If we only had NV making high performance cards, I doubt we'd be where we are today with 16 pipeline cards, 6 month product cycles and cut-throat pricing.