Why Half Life 2 isn't the greatest game ever.

[imported_JeReMY]

What I didn't like about HL 2 was how you couldn't kill any good guys. Thateould make it alot funner.

 

[TwYsTeD]

There were only two things I didnt like about the game.

1.Lack of plot. I felt like I was just "there." I know it's tradition to leave room for speculation concerning the plot in hl series, but I wasn't too pleased with how they did the story in this one.

2.Ending. Incredibly... weak... ending.

 

[daniel1113]

I, for one, am glad the game ended as it did. It leaves the story open for many more future installments rather than attempting to rush to a conclusion. Hopefully HL3 won't take another 6 years to work out, as I am interested to see more.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
Graphics:
Facial features and the character models are awesome. But seriously, what is with the dark scenes in the game? I'm running everything on high, with a 6800GT, and the dark scenes did nothing for me. Poor detail, and the shadows definitely seemed bad.

The shadows seemed excellent to me. Could be a bit softer, but that's probably because I wasn't running on max settings. The only thing bad about shadows is that when there were enemies over head, it rendered them in thin air sometimes, or on the bottoms of platforms. No big deal, really.

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
Audio:
Can't complain much. Not up to par with Doom 3 though. This will be the only Doom 3 comparison. I promise.

Ditto. Again, it may just have been my settings or my specific hardware, but I was getting a echo going on when people were talking to me. That, and if you aren't right next to people, you can't hear them talking.

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
Gameplay:

I felt the vehicle missions/chapters were merely filler for the game. At no point in piloting the boat or dune buggy did I ever say "WOW" like when I first drove the Warthog in Halo. Physics were good. I did kind of like outrunning the gunships dropping depth charges though.

I could have done without the squads later on in the Game. It felt like a poor implementation of Freedom Fighter's squads. I literally felt like launching hoppers at my squad everytime the four of them blocked the doorways in City 17. And wtf is with the Medics charging into battle?? Ant Lions and the bugbait mission was pretty fun. Until you got in the Jail (see clogged doorways rant).

Enemy AI - Horrible.

Fair enough. But the vehicle things were at least a bit fun. I think I'd much rather have some vehicles than just running through the whole time. I think the only way the vehicles could have been better is to have a few optional vehicles at points, but I think that would be too Halo-esque.

The AI was "Good enough" for me. They always seemed to chuck grenades when I ducked behind walls and would kick over those turrets as I set them up. They managed to flank me on occasions when I didn't kill them fast enough, so hey. Much better than the marines from the first. MUCH MUCH better. Those guys were idiots.

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho

The last thing that comes to mind about gameplay is the total amount of it. As in, there wasn't enough. I beat the game in about 18-20 hours, including taking a billion attempts to do the turret mission and dealing with the autosave crash/lock up experience. I figured something that took that long to develop would at least go that extra mile and make the game longer.

Understandable. I wish there was more, too. The only reason why I think 20 hours was good is because my first play-through of Half-Life 1 was about 7 hours. In comparrison, HL2 did much better for length.

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
Plot:

Or should I say lack of plot? 1984 anyone? Sure, the combine looked good. But the whole "Big Brother" spiel I could live without. They do a poor job of setting the story up. While you're immersed in the game there's no real attachment to the other characters. Maybe a bit more interaction would be nice. I think looking to Gordon as the Messiah or whatever kinda downplayed the mood from the first game. The final level was way too easy (why the heck would they give me a supergun that lets me kill groups of combine soldiers in 1 hit?) and the final battle was as far from epic as possible.

Fair enough. I think the plot was more fun than the first, though. I always liked the fights against the marines more than the aliens. I think it would have been cool if you could choose different paths at some points, rather than having the game point you in the direction the whole time. Like, maybe on one path you could have just straight up fights most of the way with little puzzles, then the other way have it be one puzzle after the next, with a few fights here and there. I dunno.

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
My biggest beef about the plot is the ending. It sucked. No matter what you say about anything I've typed here, the ending was just fricken stupid. I've played through the game, only kind of immersing myself in the story to have this totally lame ending. We learn NOTHING about the G-Man. There's no real cliffhanger whatsoever (that highest bidder crap was no big surprise considering we knew we were working for him anyways) to make us wonder "what next". There's no hint as to what might come. Basically the only thing that made the game relate to Half Life was Freeman, and the suit/crowbar.

This is the one point where I agree with you completely, but the problem is that there was no simple way to end it. Yeah, it was stupid and too sudden, but you couldn't really just have gordon walk into the sunset and have everyone be happy. Oh well. It just leaves the door open for HL3, which we can expect in 40 years (yeah right, I doubt Valve will make another one after the pressure from this one.)

Good review though. Clearly unbiased. :thumbsup:

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: BlueWeasel

Originally posted by: Thera
So what's "best game ever" then?

This gets my vote

Bahahahaha! My friends bought that game for another friend. It was hilarious. Not only do you go faster in reverse, but you accelerate continuously (regardless of current speed). The speedometer goes negative in reverse, too. There's no collision detection, you can take your rig up cliffs without losing speed, you can drive off the map into infinity, and most of levels don't actually work. *shakes head* Worst. Game. Ever.

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: Farmer
I still wish there was one little part that was in Black Mesa. The game would be truly complete.

The Citadel design is awe-inspring (especially that first time you see it, when you get your crowbar).

This is one of those games you remember, because it's so immersive. The story in this game seems muddled, but it's so appealing because of it: it's sort of like a Half Life mystique. I can't explain it. Proves that good, story-driven single player gaming is still alive and very well in this quagmire of MMOG crap. Last time I felt anything like this about a computer game was when SW:KOTOR rolled out, and before that, Freelancer (that game was underrated).

Unless I'm mistaken, you can see the citadel when you first emerge from the train station, yes?

 

[sandorski]

Best Game ever, No. Best FPS ever, Yes.

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
Audio:
Can't complain much. Not up to par with Doom 3 though. This will be the only Doom 3 comparison. I promise.

Ditto. Again, it may just have been my settings or my specific hardware, but I was getting a echo going on when people were talking to me. That, and if you aren't right next to people, you can't hear them talking.

It was definitely your settings. I had to fool with mine once or twice, as I had my speakers set up for 5.1 surround but don't have the rear channel speakers plugged in. Once I got that fixed, I never had a problem hearing anything. Also, I thought the sounds were awesome, especially the echo effects in the buggy levels. Good stuff.

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
Gameplay:

I felt the vehicle missions/chapters were merely filler for the game. At no point in piloting the boat or dune buggy did I ever say "WOW" like when I first drove the Warthog in Halo. Physics were good. I did kind of like outrunning the gunships dropping depth charges though.

I could have done without the squads later on in the Game. It felt like a poor implementation of Freedom Fighter's squads. I literally felt like launching hoppers at my squad everytime the four of them blocked the doorways in City 17. And wtf is with the Medics charging into battle?? Ant Lions and the bugbait mission was pretty fun. Until you got in the Jail (see clogged doorways rant).

Enemy AI - Horrible.

Fair enough. But the vehicle things were at least a bit fun. I think I'd much rather have some vehicles than just running through the whole time. I think the only way the vehicles could have been better is to have a few optional vehicles at points, but I think that would be too Halo-esque.

The AI was "Good enough" for me. They always seemed to chuck grenades when I ducked behind walls and would kick over those turrets as I set them up. They managed to flank me on occasions when I didn't kill them fast enough, so hey. Much better than the marines from the first. MUCH MUCH better. Those guys were idiots.

I said "wow" several times when driving the airboat. The feeling of speed was much better than any other non-racing (and most racing) games I've played. Plus there was just an awesome sense of urgency. I felt like if I didn't get out of there soon, I was going to get shot -- a lot. The buggy, yeah, was a little hard to control, but that's because it actually had traction. I got the thing stuck on a barrel and had to get out to move it. I thought that was pretty cool.

I agree with Injury about the AI. I had guys ducking behind cover and throwing grenades all the time. Even so, I hear the AI is much better on hard. It's one of the reasons I want to go through the game again.

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
Plot:

Or should I say lack of plot? 1984 anyone? Sure, the combine looked good. But the whole "Big Brother" spiel I could live without. They do a poor job of setting the story up. While you're immersed in the game there's no real attachment to the other characters. Maybe a bit more interaction would be nice. I think looking to Gordon as the Messiah or whatever kinda downplayed the mood from the first game. The final level was way too easy (why the heck would they give me a supergun that lets me kill groups of combine soldiers in 1 hit?) and the final battle was as far from epic as possible.

Fair enough. I think the plot was more fun than the first, though. I always liked the fights against the marines more than the aliens. I think it would have been cool if you could choose different paths at some points, rather than having the game point you in the direction the whole time. Like, maybe on one path you could have just straight up fights most of the way with little puzzles, then the other way have it be one puzzle after the next, with a few fights here and there. I dunno.

Personally, I liked the plot. I just wish there had been more. I felt like I was finally getting somewhere when that darn Dr. Mossman interfered... I didn't like her at all.

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
My biggest beef about the plot is the ending. It sucked. No matter what you say about anything I've typed here, the ending was just fricken stupid. I've played through the game, only kind of immersing myself in the story to have this totally lame ending. We learn NOTHING about the G-Man. There's no real cliffhanger whatsoever (that highest bidder crap was no big surprise considering we knew we were working for him anyways) to make us wonder "what next". There's no hint as to what might come. Basically the only thing that made the game relate to Half Life was Freeman, and the suit/crowbar.

This is the one point where I agree with you completely, but the problem is that there was no simple way to end it. Yeah, it was stupid and too sudden, but you couldn't really just have gordon walk into the sunset and have everyone be happy. Oh well. It just leaves the door open for HL3, which we can expect in 40 years (yeah right, I doubt Valve will make another one after the pressure from this one.)

Good review though. Clearly unbiased. :thumbsup:

I wasn't "satisfied" by the ending, but I liked it. I thought it left us suitably frustrated, as Gordon must feel after being used like that. I hope more is revealed in the future.


One last thing:
Only one person has responded to RealityTime's post asking WHICH games were/are better than Half-Life 2. I echo the same challenge: Can you name a game that was better than Half-Life 2 and state what things made it better? For example, Sunner apparently prefers HL1 because he was more convinced by the story.

Sunner, I'm curious as to why you liked the HL1 story better. Personally, I was MUCH more into the HL2 story, as I thought the characters were much more believable (and I'm more into the whole 1984/alien-conspiracy thing than the "random aliens are invading us" feeling I got from Half-Life 1). Did you notice the clippings on Eli's billboard? That hinted at a much deeper story than was narrated. It's the little touches and feeling of consistency that make HL2 the best game ever, IMO.

 

[warcrow]

I would like someone to name a game that is better as well, and list the reason you liked it better please.

 

[Sunner]

Sunner, I'm curious as to why you liked the HL1 story better. Personally, I was MUCH more into the HL2 story, as I thought the characters were much more believable (and I'm more into the whole 1984/alien-conspiracy thing than the "random aliens are invading us" feeling I got from Half-Life 1). Did you notice the clippings on Eli's billboard? That hinted at a much deeper story than was narrated. It's the little touches and feeling of consistency that make HL2 the best game ever, IMO.

Yes, I noticed that clips, at that point I still thought it was pretty cool.
I don't really know why, it just didn't excite me very much, Half Life 1, I just couldn't stop playing, this...it was fun but for some reason it just seems to drag on, rather than actively move forward.
It's not so much that the story has "convince" me, stories about aliens tend not to do that Rather it should immerse, something Half Life did but HL2 did not.

Also, while they are of course graphically superrior, I don't find the environments as entertaining, they're too varying in quality, from for example Ravenholm which has been my favourite, to the prison which I don't care for at all.
With Half Life, there was Xen, but luckily it was pretty short, and by the time I got really bored with it, I was pretty much done, aside from that, there was never any place at all where I though "Hey this ain't a whole lot of fun...maybe I should waste my time doing something else...".

Another completely unrelated example, FreeSpace 1&2, I loved both of those games, even though I've never really liked any other flight sim(and yes, I had Wing Commander on the ole Amiga ).
Others have had story lines, good graphics, etc etc, but the Freespace games just had something that hooked you.

Of course, this could all be since this has been the summer/autumn of the FPS, first FarCry, then Doom III, and now Half Life, maybe I'm just getting sick of it

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Sunner, I'm curious as to why you liked the HL1 story better. Personally, I was MUCH more into the HL2 story, as I thought the characters were much more believable (and I'm more into the whole 1984/alien-conspiracy thing than the "random aliens are invading us" feeling I got from Half-Life 1). Did you notice the clippings on Eli's billboard? That hinted at a much deeper story than was narrated. It's the little touches and feeling of consistency that make HL2 the best game ever, IMO.

Yes, I noticed that clips, at that point I still thought it was pretty cool.
I don't really know why, it just didn't excite me very much, Half Life 1, I just couldn't stop playing, this...it was fun but for some reason it just seems to drag on, rather than actively move forward.
It's not so much that the story has "convince" me, stories about aliens tend not to do that Rather it should immerse, something Half Life did but HL2 did not.

Also, while they are of course graphically superrior, I don't find the environments as entertaining, they're too varying in quality, from for example Ravenholm which has been my favourite, to the prison which I don't care for at all.
With Half Life, there was Xen, but luckily it was pretty short, and by the time I got really bored with it, I was pretty much done, aside from that, there was never any place at all where I though "Hey this ain't a whole lot of fun...maybe I should waste my time doing something else...".

Another completely unrelated example, FreeSpace 1&2, I loved both of those games, even though I've never really liked any other flight sim(and yes, I had Wing Commander on the ole Amiga ).
Others have had story lines, good graphics, etc etc, but the Freespace games just had something that hooked you.

Of course, this could all be since this has been the summer/autumn of the FPS, first FarCry, then Doom III, and now Half Life, maybe I'm just getting sick of it

I never found the original Half-Life immersive. The engine was too primitive to manage it. I think that's why I liked this one far more.

I also loved the variety in environments. You had a perfectly clear purpose moving from place to place, and it prevented things from getting dull. It gave the game flavor I think.

 

[Farmer]

EpsiIon:

Serious? I didn;t even notice it coming out of the train station.

 

[canadianpsycho]

Well, nice to see only a few insults tossed my way.

I'm not "hating on" Half Life 2. What I don't appreciate is all the hype. Sure its a great game, and can be considered a classic. But I don't feel it was groundbreaking except for maybe character models.

I think the Citadel intro was fantastic. That and the inital look of the game really made me feel like I hadn't wasted my money. But people running around and screaming that it is the best game ever needs to stop and think about what they are saying...

Want a few examples of better games then HL2 (IMO)?

-Half Life 1
-Far Cry
-System Shock (talk about a classic)
-SW: KOTOR (previously mentioned)
-Splinter Cell
-Max Payne

All of these are of course arguable. I can think of a few more as personal favourites that I'm sure people would think I am nuts (Wing Commander, Ultima, some moldy oldies )

Again. Did I like the game, sure. Did I skip work to play it? Definitely. Is it the best game this year? Possibly. Best game ever? Not according to this subhuman

 

[canadianpsycho]

I just remembered what I was going to add to my complaints/rants/whines.

The "puzzles"!

The most difficult aspect of the game was probably the 2 instances where you need to use the machine gun turrets. Maybe also a spot or 2 in Ravenholm... And the strider stages near the end. Is it just me, or as the games get better looking, the degree of difficulty is more or less based on reaction time as opposed to problem solving?

I mean no offense to those that got stuck on some of the water rafting segments, but regardless of how linear I found the plot, the "puzzles" were extremely easy. And I'm not trying to sound superior here HL1 seemed to have more challenges in it.

 

[RealityTime]

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
Well, nice to see only a few insults tossed my way.

I'm not "hating on" Half Life 2. What I don't appreciate is all the hype. Sure its a great game, and can be considered a classic. But I don't feel it was groundbreaking except for maybe character models.

I think the Citadel intro was fantastic. That and the inital look of the game really made me feel like I hadn't wasted my money. But people running around and screaming that it is the best game ever needs to stop and think about what they are saying...

Want a few examples of better games then HL2 (IMO)?

-Half Life 1
-Far Cry
-System Shock (talk about a classic)
-SW: KOTOR (previously mentioned)
-Splinter Cell
-Max Payne

All of these are of course arguable. I can think of a few more as personal favourites that I'm sure people would think I am nuts (Wing Commander, Ultima, some moldy oldies )

Again. Did I like the game, sure. Did I skip work to play it? Definitely. Is it the best game this year? Possibly. Best game ever? Not according to this subhuman

I'm sorry but I think you are clasping at straws. Splinter Cell ? Max Payne ? These were decent games, but nowhere near on par with hl2. KOTOR was a great game, but I don't think it is as good as hl2, but subjectively from someone elses opinion, I guess you could prefer it. Farcry is nice, looks great, but really lacked the polish in hl2. System shock and half life 1 were great, in their day, I think technology definately adds an edge to a game, and those two just can't compete with hl2. And I really think everyone is using hl1 as a copout to the question. Sure hl1 was a good game, but its just not as good as hl2. Play it again, I think I am going to run it through again. It's fantastic. but hl2.. well its just excellent.

 

[tranceport]

I think Thief Deadly Shadows would be a good contender against HL2 and Doom3. I didn't care for doom3 much.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: Sunner

Sunner, I'm curious as to why you liked the HL1 story better. Personally, I was MUCH more into the HL2 story, as I thought the characters were much more believable (and I'm more into the whole 1984/alien-conspiracy thing than the "random aliens are invading us" feeling I got from Half-Life 1). Did you notice the clippings on Eli's billboard? That hinted at a much deeper story than was narrated. It's the little touches and feeling of consistency that make HL2 the best game ever, IMO.

Yes, I noticed that clips, at that point I still thought it was pretty cool.
I don't really know why, it just didn't excite me very much, Half Life 1, I just couldn't stop playing, this...it was fun but for some reason it just seems to drag on, rather than actively move forward.
It's not so much that the story has "convince" me, stories about aliens tend not to do that Rather it should immerse, something Half Life did but HL2 did not.

Also, while they are of course graphically superrior, I don't find the environments as entertaining, they're too varying in quality, from for example Ravenholm which has been my favourite, to the prison which I don't care for at all.
With Half Life, there was Xen, but luckily it was pretty short, and by the time I got really bored with it, I was pretty much done, aside from that, there was never any place at all where I though "Hey this ain't a whole lot of fun...maybe I should waste my time doing something else...".

Another completely unrelated example, FreeSpace 1&2, I loved both of those games, even though I've never really liked any other flight sim(and yes, I had Wing Commander on the ole Amiga ).
Others have had story lines, good graphics, etc etc, but the Freespace games just had something that hooked you.

Of course, this could all be since this has been the summer/autumn of the FPS, first FarCry, then Doom III, and now Half Life, maybe I'm just getting sick of it

I never found the original Half-Life immersive. The engine was too primitive to manage it. I think that's why I liked this one far more.

I also loved the variety in environments. You had a perfectly clear purpose moving from place to place, and it prevented things from getting dull. It gave the game flavor I think.

It's kinda like Doom to me(Doom I that is), it may be primitive, but it's something that made me really go "Wow".
And yes, Doom I is one of those games that's better than HL2 as well

RealityTime
You seem to have a serious problem grasping the concept of opinions.
"clasping at straws" because he doesn't agree with you? Do you say that to people who don't agree with your choice in music as well?
If someone thinks Daiktana is the greatest game ever, is he a fvcking moron? A liar? Or is he just someone who doesn't share the opinion of the majority?

If you have such a problem accepting other people's opinions maybe you shouldn't be on an internet message board, because you're bound to find quite a few differing opinions here.

 

[canadianpsycho]

Originally posted by: RealityTime

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
Well, nice to see only a few insults tossed my way.

I'm not "hating on" Half Life 2. What I don't appreciate is all the hype. Sure its a great game, and can be considered a classic. But I don't feel it was groundbreaking except for maybe character models.

I think the Citadel intro was fantastic. That and the inital look of the game really made me feel like I hadn't wasted my money. But people running around and screaming that it is the best game ever needs to stop and think about what they are saying...

Want a few examples of better games then HL2 (IMO)?

-Half Life 1
-Far Cry
-System Shock (talk about a classic)
-SW: KOTOR (previously mentioned)
-Splinter Cell
-Max Payne

All of these are of course arguable. I can think of a few more as personal favourites that I'm sure people would think I am nuts (Wing Commander, Ultima, some moldy oldies )

Again. Did I like the game, sure. Did I skip work to play it? Definitely. Is it the best game this year? Possibly. Best game ever? Not according to this subhuman

I'm sorry but I think you are clasping at straws. Splinter Cell ? Max Payne ? These were decent games, but nowhere near on par with hl2. KOTOR was a great game, but I don't think it is as good as hl2, but subjectively from someone elses opinion, I guess you could prefer it. Farcry is nice, looks great, but really lacked the polish in hl2. System shock and half life 1 were great, in their day, I think technology definately adds an edge to a game, and those two just can't compete with hl2. And I really think everyone is using hl1 as a copout to the question. Sure hl1 was a good game, but its just not as good as hl2. Play it again, I think I am going to run it through again. It's fantastic. but hl2.. well its just excellent.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions. I found Max Payne's story (albeit a tad corny) and bullet time to be fantastic - aside from that atrocious nightmare/tripped out scene. There was also a definite challenge to the game. And Splinter Cell was totally amazing.

Thief is a great suggestion also.

 

[Jigglelicious]

Agreed, I would definitely list Thief3 as contendor for game of the year. Unfortunatly, for most people it wouldn't even be a consideration, since it didn't sell xxx million copies, and doesn't involve big guns and blowing people up.

And I'm not saying that HL2 was a bad game. By all means, it was excellent and for the most part a lot of fun. Some of those battles were just insane! But as a sequel to HL1 from a story/feel perspective, not only did I find it disappointing, I found it downright depressing. By the last few levels I was actually considering just not playing anymore, as I noticed the story turning more and more Matrix like. As soon as I was finished with HL2, I quickly installed the original and started playing through it again, just to get the 2nd one off my mind. I almost wish I hadn't even played it.

 

[EpsiIon]

Sunner: I don't think "wow-factor" is enough to make "the best". I really enjoyed Max Payne. It was an awesome game with a great story. Bullet time made me say "wow" and I liked that the bullets were physically modeled. That said, it was NOT better than Half-Life 2. The simplistic gameplay (IMO) will forever "limit" it to the realm of excellent games. It will always be noteworthy and "one of the best," but never a contender for THE best.

It's the same thing with DOOM. The game was revolutionary, but that doesn't mean it's "one of the best." Yeah, it was fun back in the day. But by today's standards... it sucks. Sorry, but it does. That "fun" you're having when you pick it up again is simply remembered fun from your past. (That's a pretty inflammatory statement; don't take it too seriously.) Take an example from the movie industry: Citizen Kane. It's hailed as "the best movie ever" because of it's revolutionary cinematography. Is it? Heck no! It's long and, actually, somewhat boring. A game that was "the best" when it was released is not necessarily "the best" now. The same will be true of Half-Life 2 when something better is released (whenever that is... I can't say I have much confidence in the industry as a whole).

Of course, this is all my opinion and I'm sure some people disagree.

 

[skace]

Let me come right out and say that I actually loved the ending. I thought the last scene was powerful and almost made me want to pause the game to take it all in.

But, I do believe HL2 could have benefitted from a little Fallout, and by that, I mean the game. Fallout had amazing storyline, always being told to you by different things, players, books, etc. I think HL2 could have benefitted from a little storyline thrown in via some books or simple dialogue talks. I would have loved to see some journals scattered throughout some of the houses as well. I remember playing coastal and stopping in the houses to see if there were any survivors, each house nearly had a story to it without words. I would have loved to see a journal or something outlining what these people had been up against, how long they had survived, etc.

My gripe is rather small in contrast to my enjoyment of the game. I think HL2 was executed nearly perfect in a single player sense. I believe that, just as HL1 raised the bar for single player experiences, HL2 has once again raised the bar in bringing an experience like no other. There simply isn't another SP game out that has made a game flow as well as HL2.

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: skace
But, I do believe HL2 could have benefitted from a little Fallout, and by that, I mean the game. Fallout had amazing storyline, always being told to you by different things, players, books, etc. I think HL2 could have benefitted from a little storyline thrown in via some books or simple dialogue talks. I would have loved to see some journals scattered throughout some of the houses as well. I remember playing coastal and stopping in the houses to see if there were any survivors, each house nearly had a story to it without words. I would have loved to see a journal or something outlining what these people had been up against, how long they had survived, etc.

Yeah, that's a really good idea. I would have loved that.

 

[skace]

-Half Life 1
-Far Cry
-System Shock (talk about a classic)
-SW: KOTOR (previously mentioned)
-Splinter Cell
-Max Payne

Max Payne series will never be a contender for greatest game. It simply never brings enough to the table to be considered great.

Splinter Cell is much the same as Max Payne. Short games that havn't revolutionized anything. I'd rather you liken back to Metal Gear Solid instead of Splinter Cell, since MGS was doing it first and is an amazing classic.

Far Cry. Give me a few reasons why Far Cry is a better game than HL2. Better gameplay? Nope. Better story? Nope. Better graphics? Nope. Just what the hell did Far Cry achieve? I've been asking this question since before Doom3 got released and people were kissing the ground that Far Cry walked on. The game had PRETTY WATER. It also had huge lifeless maps that had absolutely nothing going on, something Chaser and Chrome had already done into the ground of utter boredom.

Kotor is hard to compare to HL2. I enjoyed Kotor greatly, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that HL2 brought more to the table. Kotor was simply my enjoyment for the Baldurs Gate series refinished with a great new star wars story. Those guys have an awesome formula that simply works in every game they make. Before you compare KOTOR to HL2, you have to compare KOTOR to BG2 and its expansion pack and figure out which was a better game. Tough call there. You are asking me to compete an amazing RPG against an amazing FPS and that always requires some thinking and clearly defined fields / reviews of those fields.

Now HL1 and System Shock ARE classics and for good reason. And I am not one to stomp all over classics, I would leave arguing whether HL1 or HL2 is better to another thread, as I think there is a large discussion to be had there.

Now, I'll say this, Deus Ex 1 and Tribes Vengence SP are both better than a number of the games you listed. I would still say HL2 takes the cake. Also, I want to see more games made using the DOOM3 engine, as I think that engine really has a lot to offer. Infact, I'm currently playing Vampire: Bloodlines and I keep wondering how the game would have looked with the Doom3 engine.

I want to see:
A mechwarrior game using the unreal engine (IE: tribes vengence gone mechwarrior)
A vampire masquerade game using the doom3 engine
Expansion packs for vampire masquerade and hl2

It's been an amazing month.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: EpsiIon
Sunner: I don't think "wow-factor" is enough to make "the best". I really enjoyed Max Payne. It was an awesome game with a great story. Bullet time made me say "wow" and I liked that the bullets were physically modeled. That said, it was NOT better than Half-Life 2. The simplistic gameplay (IMO) will forever "limit" it to the realm of excellent games. It will always be noteworthy and "one of the best," but never a contender for THE best.

It's the same thing with DOOM. The game was revolutionary, but that doesn't mean it's "one of the best." Yeah, it was fun back in the day. But by today's standards... it sucks. Sorry, but it does. That "fun" you're having when you pick it up again is simply remembered fun from your past. (That's a pretty inflammatory statement; don't take it too seriously.) Take an example from the movie industry: Citizen Kane. It's hailed as "the best movie ever" because of it's revolutionary cinematography. Is it? Heck no! It's long and, actually, somewhat boring. A game that was "the best" when it was released is not necessarily "the best" now. The same will be true of Half-Life 2 when something better is released (whenever that is... I can't say I have much confidence in the industry as a whole).

Of course, this is all my opinion and I'm sure some people disagree.

Don't badmouth Doom near me
That' along with Elite II(another in the list of potentially best games ever) is probably the game I've wasted the most time on.
Of course it won't be as fun today, but that's irrelevant, nothing is as fun the second time as it was the first(well, generally).
In 5 years, Half Life 2 will be dated and boring, same as Far Cry, Doom III, etc, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an asskicker the first time around(if you enjoyed it the first time that is).

As for Max Payne, I didn't bring that up, but now that you mention it, Max Payne 1 wasn't all that IMO, good graphics and bullet time was very cool, but still, nothing great.
I loved Max Payne 2 though, I'd put that above HL2 anyday, again, simply because it's one of those games that really made me wanna play "just another 15 minutes".

 

[Insomniak]

I think people have a hard time accepting that "classic" does not mean "still great".

A good example of this is the movie industry. Citizen Kane was pronounced the best movie ever made by the AFI. They are wrong. By today's standards, pretty much every mechanic in Citizen Kane is weak.

Of course, many of you will say "well, technology has advanced, cinematography as a practice has advanced, etc etc."

Well, yes. Things have moved forward, and this leads to better movies.

The same goes for games. Doom was revolutionary in its time. It arguably created a genre. But if you went back and played it today, you'd realize it is garbage. We've progressed too much since then. People wear rosy-colored glasses which tilt their objective view of a game. I love Doom. It is a classic and its place in gaming history is cemented forever. But being classic and historically significant does not add to gameplay or design, and these are what make games great. Design and gameplay have come forward a long way since Doom, and thus while it will forever hold a special place for a lot of us, it is not nearly as good as game as it once was.

And yes, I'm sure a decade after Half Life 2, it too will be old hat and rather low quality compared to the top titles at the time. Will that remove its status as a classic and a landmark game? Of course not, but then it will no longer be the best game made to date.

At the moment in time we are discussing, however, (which is right now, for those of you keeping score at home) I think it's very difficult to argue that any title released previously is on the same level as Half Life 2 right now. It might have been as revolutionary and cinematic when it was first released, but not now.

So draw the distinction. Good memories of a game do not make a game better. They give you nostalgia, and allow you to appreciate what the game was in its heydey, but things move on.