Why Half Life 2 isn't the greatest game ever.

[Sunner]

Yes, of course if someone was to get a copy of Doom I today, they wouldn't exactly be overwhelmed, but when someone says "Best game ever" that implies(to me at least) that we're talking about "At the time".
As in, when Doom came out, it was better than Half Life 2 is now.

Comparing a 10 year old game to a 10 day old game is of course very unfair when the question asked is "Which one is the best ever" rather than "Which one is the best today".

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: EpsiIon

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
Audio:
Can't complain much. Not up to par with Doom 3 though. This will be the only Doom 3 comparison. I promise.

Ditto. Again, it may just have been my settings or my specific hardware, but I was getting a echo going on when people were talking to me. That, and if you aren't right next to people, you can't hear them talking.

It was definitely your settings. I had to fool with mine once or twice, as I had my speakers set up for 5.1 surround but don't have the rear channel speakers plugged in. Once I got that fixed, I never had a problem hearing anything. Also, I thought the sounds were awesome, especially the echo effects in the buggy levels. Good stuff.

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
Gameplay:

I felt the vehicle missions/chapters were merely filler for the game. At no point in piloting the boat or dune buggy did I ever say "WOW" like when I first drove the Warthog in Halo. Physics were good. I did kind of like outrunning the gunships dropping depth charges though.

I could have done without the squads later on in the Game. It felt like a poor implementation of Freedom Fighter's squads. I literally felt like launching hoppers at my squad everytime the four of them blocked the doorways in City 17. And wtf is with the Medics charging into battle?? Ant Lions and the bugbait mission was pretty fun. Until you got in the Jail (see clogged doorways rant).

Enemy AI - Horrible.

Fair enough. But the vehicle things were at least a bit fun. I think I'd much rather have some vehicles than just running through the whole time. I think the only way the vehicles could have been better is to have a few optional vehicles at points, but I think that would be too Halo-esque.

The AI was "Good enough" for me. They always seemed to chuck grenades when I ducked behind walls and would kick over those turrets as I set them up. They managed to flank me on occasions when I didn't kill them fast enough, so hey. Much better than the marines from the first. MUCH MUCH better. Those guys were idiots.

I said "wow" several times when driving the airboat. The feeling of speed was much better than any other non-racing (and most racing) games I've played. Plus there was just an awesome sense of urgency. I felt like if I didn't get out of there soon, I was going to get shot -- a lot. The buggy, yeah, was a little hard to control, but that's because it actually had traction. I got the thing stuck on a barrel and had to get out to move it. I thought that was pretty cool.

I agree with Injury about the AI. I had guys ducking behind cover and throwing grenades all the time. Even so, I hear the AI is much better on hard. It's one of the reasons I want to go through the game again.

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
Plot:

Or should I say lack of plot? 1984 anyone? Sure, the combine looked good. But the whole "Big Brother" spiel I could live without. They do a poor job of setting the story up. While you're immersed in the game there's no real attachment to the other characters. Maybe a bit more interaction would be nice. I think looking to Gordon as the Messiah or whatever kinda downplayed the mood from the first game. The final level was way too easy (why the heck would they give me a supergun that lets me kill groups of combine soldiers in 1 hit?) and the final battle was as far from epic as possible.

Fair enough. I think the plot was more fun than the first, though. I always liked the fights against the marines more than the aliens. I think it would have been cool if you could choose different paths at some points, rather than having the game point you in the direction the whole time. Like, maybe on one path you could have just straight up fights most of the way with little puzzles, then the other way have it be one puzzle after the next, with a few fights here and there. I dunno.

Personally, I liked the plot. I just wish there had been more. I felt like I was finally getting somewhere when that darn Dr. Mossman interfered... I didn't like her at all.

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
My biggest beef about the plot is the ending. It sucked. No matter what you say about anything I've typed here, the ending was just fricken stupid. I've played through the game, only kind of immersing myself in the story to have this totally lame ending. We learn NOTHING about the G-Man. There's no real cliffhanger whatsoever (that highest bidder crap was no big surprise considering we knew we were working for him anyways) to make us wonder "what next". There's no hint as to what might come. Basically the only thing that made the game relate to Half Life was Freeman, and the suit/crowbar.

This is the one point where I agree with you completely, but the problem is that there was no simple way to end it. Yeah, it was stupid and too sudden, but you couldn't really just have gordon walk into the sunset and have everyone be happy. Oh well. It just leaves the door open for HL3, which we can expect in 40 years (yeah right, I doubt Valve will make another one after the pressure from this one.)

Good review though. Clearly unbiased. :thumbsup:

I wasn't "satisfied" by the ending, but I liked it. I thought it left us suitably frustrated, as Gordon must feel after being used like that. I hope more is revealed in the future.


One last thing:
Only one person has responded to RealityTime's post asking WHICH games were/are better than Half-Life 2. I echo the same challenge: Can you name a game that was better than Half-Life 2 and state what things made it better? For example, Sunner apparently prefers HL1 because he was more convinced by the story.

Sunner, I'm curious as to why you liked the HL1 story better. Personally, I was MUCH more into the HL2 story, as I thought the characters were much more believable (and I'm more into the whole 1984/alien-conspiracy thing than the "random aliens are invading us" feeling I got from Half-Life 1). Did you notice the clippings on Eli's billboard? That hinted at a much deeper story than was narrated. It's the little touches and feeling of consistency that make HL2 the best game ever, IMO.

Warcraft3/TFT best RTS
KOTOR best RPG
Everquest best MMO (till WoW )
Quake2
BF1942 and DC
and UT2004 all better shooters if you ask me..
Multiplayer is much more important to me than these stupid offline Shooters with a flimsey story..
CS is still the same crappy game it always has been.. so no competition there..
if HL2 had a decent MP it might have made my fave game list..

HL2 is ok.. definatly a good game.. one of my favorites that I will play again and again.. definatly no..

 

[skace]

You realize CS is still the most played multiplayer FPS game out, right?
http://archive.gamespy.com/stats/

If you are concerned with multiplayer, CS is where you'd want to be.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: skace
You realize CS is still the most played multiplayer FPS game out, right?
http://archive.gamespy.com/stats/

If you are concerned with multiplayer, CS is where you'd want to be.

CS is total garbage.. it was total grabage when it was released the first time..
no depth in play at all stupid round based play...
dumb game...

BF1942/DC
or BFV now with that kick ass modern mod both way better games..

 

[otispunkmeyer]

counter strike source that came with HL2 ... i jus cant stop playing!

 

[BatmanNate]

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Rise of Nations best RTS. Runners up to C&C, AOM, RA, WC2.
Fallout 2 best RPG, Fallout close behind. All else distant 3rd.
No such thing as a good MMO.
Quake2
BF1942 and DC
and UT2004 are all strong multiplayer games, but don't hold a candle to Half-Life 2 when it comes to depth and immersive single player gaming. I suppose with my short attention span, the modest puzzles in the game stumped me so I had to go back to shooting mindlessly online. As if the rest of my posts weren't evidence enough, this is the sweet icing of confirmation on the cake of me smoking crack. The crack helped my spelling too, apparently.

Fixed.

 

[hdeck]

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: skace
You realize CS is still the most played multiplayer FPS game out, right?
http://archive.gamespy.com/stats/

If you are concerned with multiplayer, CS is where you'd want to be.

CS is total garbage.. it was total grabage when it was released the first time..
no depth in play at all stupid round based play...
dumb game...

BF1942/DC
or BFV now with that kick ass modern mod both way better games..

bf1942 sucked ass. obviously cs isn't total garbage if every major lan tournament in the world is using the game (aside from quakecon, of course). the game is 5 years old and sponsors are still piling in tons of money to events. i think you're just a bf fanboy.

 

[JBT]

Personally I put about 10hrs into D3 and just stopped cause I thought it sucked...
Far Cry was much better than D3 but I didn't finish that either. There was just nothing that awed me. The new HDR looks sweet but I can't get my self to keep playing that game.

HL2 was amazing personally. While the story wasn't said flat out sitting there for you to understand it was there for you to make your own conclusions about. It leaves you with a sense of wanting more and I am extremely excited about an expansion pack and HL3 I just hope they don't take so long to come out.
So far I think HL2 is the best single player game I have ever played. I can also play CS:Source for hours on end. I am looking forward to an easier more stable implimentation of DM for HL2 as it is possible already. Game gets a 11/10 from me.

 

[muoot]

Spoiliers ahead:

Okay, so you play this amazing game. You would expect the level of difficult to increase and it does. You are outnumbered in many of the firefight rounds before the last chapter. Stryders are everywhere. You move on the last chapter with some help (thanks Dog!) . And, you are taken for an incredible Pod ride.
Your weapon gets a nice improvment.

and then....
the last chapter was WAY too easy!

Nothing but Combine and one stryder to get past. No real puzzles. The final battle (if you want to call it that) was hardly climactic at all and only lasts a few minutes (if that). You spend 15-20 hours playing HF2 for that ending? eh... no formidable monsters to battle, no answers, no resolution, no real cliffhanger. Many earlier parts were more difficult and required more skill than the last chapter for example: Working under the Hwy 17 bridge to shut down the forcefield was more intreguing or beating the first Antlion guard was more difficult.

It just leaves you flat. That's when you start picking the rest of game apart.:disgust:

 

[Insomniak]

Nah. The ending was perfect, because in real life there ARE no boss battles. The ending brought a close to the events in City 17 concerning Gordon Freeman and the refugees of Black Mesa. Other events may concern them in the future, but I believe City 17 hosted what needed to happen there, and its purpose is past.

 

[warcrow]

Originally posted by: skace
But, I do believe HL2 could have benefitted from a little Fallout, and by that, I mean the game. Fallout had amazing storyline, always being told to you by different things, players, books, etc. I think HL2 could have benefitted from a little storyline thrown in via some books or simple dialogue talks. I would have loved to see some journals scattered throughout some of the houses as well. I remember playing coastal and stopping in the houses to see if there were any survivors, each house nearly had a story to it without words. I would have loved to see a journal or something outlining what these people had been up against, how long they had survived, etc.

You know, I agree with you on this 100%, skace. This is real contructive critisism that we all could note. He applied a small gripe, with a viable, real solution.

Well said.

 

[muoot]

Originally posted by: Insomniak
Nah. The ending was perfect, because in real life there ARE no boss battles. The ending brought a close to the events in City 17 concerning Gordon Freeman and the refugees of Black Mesa. Other events may concern them in the future, but I believe City 17 hosted what needed to happen there, and its purpose is past.

yeah, just perfect. a excellent close to the events in City 17 concerning Gordon Freeman and the refugees of Black Mesa. Many questions answered. The outcome of City 17 is well documented. And the refugees of Black Mesa are certain to...ummm.....?

"You know, when this is all over, I'm gonna...ah, who am I fooling?"

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: Insomniak
I think people have a hard time accepting that "classic" does not mean "still great".

A good example of this is the movie industry. Citizen Kane was pronounced the best movie ever made by the AFI. They are wrong. By today's standards, pretty much every mechanic in Citizen Kane is weak.

Of course, many of you will say "well, technology has advanced, cinematography as a practice has advanced, etc etc."

Well, yes. Things have moved forward, and this leads to better movies.

The same goes for games. Doom was revolutionary in its time. It arguably created a genre. But if you went back and played it today, you'd realize it is garbage. We've progressed too much since then. People wear rosy-colored glasses which tilt their objective view of a game. I love Doom. It is a classic and its place in gaming history is cemented forever. But being classic and historically significant does not add to gameplay or design, and these are what make games great. Design and gameplay have come forward a long way since Doom, and thus while it will forever hold a special place for a lot of us, it is not nearly as good as game as it once was.

And yes, I'm sure a decade after Half Life 2, it too will be old hat and rather low quality compared to the top titles at the time. Will that remove its status as a classic and a landmark game? Of course not, but then it will no longer be the best game made to date.

At the moment in time we are discussing, however, (which is right now, for those of you keeping score at home) I think it's very difficult to argue that any title released previously is on the same level as Half Life 2 right now. It might have been as revolutionary and cinematic when it was first released, but not now.

So draw the distinction. Good memories of a game do not make a game better. They give you nostalgia, and allow you to appreciate what the game was in its heydey, but things move on.

You said exactly what I meant to say. But you said it much more eloquently than I did. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: muoot

Originally posted by: Insomniak
Nah. The ending was perfect, because in real life there ARE no boss battles. The ending brought a close to the events in City 17 concerning Gordon Freeman and the refugees of Black Mesa. Other events may concern them in the future, but I believe City 17 hosted what needed to happen there, and its purpose is past.

yeah, just perfect. a excellent close to the events in City 17 concerning Gordon Freeman and the refugees of Black Mesa. Many questions answered. The outcome of City 17 is well documented. And the refugees of Black Mesa are certain to...ummm.....?

"You know, when this is all over, I'm gonna...ah, who am I fooling?"

Who ever said questions were answered? I simply said that the events in City 17 were concluded, which they were. We don't always get all the blanks filled in for us when something ends. Who shot JFK again?

What will happen to Gordon and his compatriots? That is yet to be revealed, if it ever will be. But we know far more about them now than we did at the end of Half-Life 1. Anyone who says the storyline wasn't moved forward in this installment is on crack.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: THE STORY IS NOT OVER. I could understand these complaints if the story was done, but it isn't. The game, which was about Gordon and what he did in City 17, was finished, so the game ended. But I have a feeling, my friends, that the story is far from over, and you will understand what you want to by the time it is.

 

[muoot]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: muoot

Originally posted by: Insomniak
Nah. The ending was perfect, because in real life there ARE no boss battles. The ending brought a close to the events in City 17 concerning Gordon Freeman and the refugees of Black Mesa. Other events may concern them in the future, but I believe City 17 hosted what needed to happen there, and its purpose is past.

yeah, just perfect. a excellent close to the events in City 17 concerning Gordon Freeman and the refugees of Black Mesa. Many questions answered. The outcome of City 17 is well documented. And the refugees of Black Mesa are certain to...ummm.....?

"You know, when this is all over, I'm gonna...ah, who am I fooling?"

Who ever said questions were answered? I simply said that the events in City 17 were concluded, which they were. We don't always get all the blanks filled in for us when something ends. Who shot JFK again?

What will happen to Gordon and his compatriots? That is yet to be revealed, if it ever will be. But we know far more about them now than we did at the end of Half-Life 1. Anyone who says the storyline wasn't moved forward in this installment is on crack.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: THE STORY IS NOT OVER. I could understand these complaints if the story was done, but it isn't. The game, which was about Gordon and what he did in City 17, was finished, so the game ended. But I have a feeling, my friends, that the story is far from over, and you will understand what you want to by the time it is.

Read my OP, I said the game ended flat. Last chapter has no puzzles, no formidable monsters to battle, no answers, no resolution, no real cliffhanger.

You come back with: ending brought a close to the events in City 17 concerning Gordon Freeman and the refugees of Black Mesa. The truth is it was hardly a "close" by any means because as you say THE STORY IS NOT OVER

Think I'll stop here before you contradict yourself one more time. Or, perhaps you enjoy contradicting me? Beacause "this is not an argument. " ..and I want my $5 back.

 

[imported_Gecko]

Best part is the AI!

SPOILERS AHEAD!... I guess...

















I was in Ravenholm and Father Grigori just tossed me the shotgun, and I jumped across the other other building and the fast alien/zombies were climbing up the walls after me. So i ran inside and shut the door and they ran to the door stopped, climbed up the walls and jumped in throught the ceiling windows... if that isn't good AI i don't know what it.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: muoot
Read my OP, I said the game ended flat. Last chapter has no puzzles, no formidable monsters to battle, no answers, no resolution, no real cliffhanger.

You come back with: ending brought a close to the events in City 17 concerning Gordon Freeman and the refugees of Black Mesa. The truth is it was hardly a "close" by any means because as you say THE STORY IS NOT OVER

Think I'll stop here before you contradict yourself one more time.

ROFL.

Try reading what I write.

I said it brought a close to the events in City 17, which is absolutely true. I also said the story is not over, which is absolutely true.

You do understand that you can conclude events in one location without ending the story, right? You see, this is how books work sometimes. They have these neat doohickies called "chapters" which cover a certain event or group of events related to the greater whole.

Sometimes, get this, books are even written in series, which means one WHOLE BOOK, which is about a certain event or group of related events can end without the story being over. Amazing isn't it? I know, I almost peed my pants too!

Ok, now stay with me here, because this is where it gets complex. See, Half Life 2 is like one of those "books" in a "series". Here's a chart:

Book 1:----------------Series:
Half-Life 1-------------Half-Life Series

Book 2:----------------Series:
Half-Life 2-------------Half-Life Series


So you see....hey, HEY, stay with me here...I know this is hard one to wrap your brain around, but stay with me....see, this way, a game can END, and an event or group of related events, like those that happened in City 17, can END, but a story can KEEP GOING.

Here's another one of those helpful charts:

Item:----------------------------Status:
Half-Life 1-----------------------Ended
Half-Life 2-----------------------Ended
Entire Half Life Storyline-------NOT Ended


K, see? See how that works? That's neat stuff isn't it?

So, where we are now is...hey, WAKE UP! Ok, where we are is the events in City 17, namely, the participation of Gordon Freeman in the resistance against the Combine and the destruction of the Citadel, have passed, occurred, concluded. These are, strangely, the same events as those in Half-Life 2. But, the events that compose the entire Half-Life storyline are only partially completed. See, they may use those to make future games. And those events may well have nothing to do with City 17 or the cast of characters we saw there.

K? Clear now? K? K thx. :thumbsup:

 

[muoot]

spoilers inside!

I will (as I hope every other reasonable people who read this thread does) to disregard your trite, uninteresting attempt at satire when it lends absolutely nothing to your defense of the HL2 last chapter falling flat on it's can.

If the audience was in it only "observe events", then you may, perhaps, have the slightest remanence
of purpose. But, in the case, not only is the audience (the player) immersed in the story, they do , in fact PARTICIPATE IN iT!

Therefore,

Should the audience, based upon the events at the end of HL2 perceive a close to the events at City 17 with no questions (NONE) answered regarding the purpose of GF's mission in City 17 or, even, was/was not the Citidel destroyed? How about sense of direction as why GF should participate in HL3? Or , maybe even a decent cliff-hanger (since, "it's not over!!!") . Perhaps you are satisfied with this type of empty outcome.

Perhaps you are satisfied with absolutely no resolultion or explaination in the least as to why you have been involved in this rebellion for the last 15-20 hours.

Perhaps you are satisfied with the lack of difficulty and absence of any formitable challanges of the last chapter in HL2.

Perhaps you are satisfied with Deus Ex Machina controling the doors of time and stopping the clock when the Administrator's teleport exploded ? >(which ,BTW, superimposes a myrid of implications...most of which will lead this conversation into the bowels of plot-story hell)


"You know, when this is all over, I'm gonna...ah, who am I fooling?"
Good day to you, sir.

 

[Mik3y]

lets just say doom 3 was a bust. it sucked hands down. it was pretty spooky, but got pretty boring. i was just plain hooked on half-life 2 then enitire time.

 

[muoot]

Originally posted by: Mik3y
lets just say doom 3 was a bust. it sucked hands down. it was pretty spooky, but got pretty boring. i was just plain hooked on half-life 2 then enitire time.

me. too!>> hooked! then...flat ending. uhg!:roll:

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: muoot
I will (as I hope every other reasonable people who read this thread does) to disregard your trite, uninteresting attempt at satire when it lends absolutely nothing to your defense of the HL2 last chapter falling flat on it's can.

"Falling flat on it's can" is dependant on viewpoint. While I will whole-heartedly agree that the final chapter was not the most action packed of the game, I don't think it "fell flat on it's can" insofar as where Valve decided to end the game and pause the story.

Originally posted by: muoot
Should the audience, based upon the events at the end of HL2 perceive a close to the events at City 17 with no questions (NONE) answered regarding the purpose of GF's mission in City 17 or, even, was/was not the Citidel destroyed?

You tell me why not.

I imagine that why things occurred as they did in City 17 will be revealed to us in good time. Until such time as that information is disclosed, yes, the player may as well put City 17 behind them.

I'm not saying that the questions should remain unanswered forever. If you think that, you're assuming, and we all know what happens to U and ME when someone ASSumes.

What I'm saying is that for the moment, the player knows all they need to know about City 17, and may not be revisiting it barring Half-Life 2 expansion packs. I'm sure the catalysts for the events there could be made clear in an entirely different locale, if the player were to learn more about the macro-situation, not just what Gordon can percieve with his boots on the pavement.

Originally posted by: muoot
Perhaps you are satisfied with absolutely no resolultion or explaination in the least as to why you have been involved in this rebellion for the last 15-20 hours.

I am at the moment, because, as I have repeatedly tried to explain to you, the resolution/explanation is most assuredly upcoming. Just not in this game.

Originally posted by: muoot
Perhaps you are satisfied with the lack of difficulty and absence of any formitable challanges of the last chapter in HL2.

I had no problem with the last chapter. It got the game were it needed to be in order to conclude. The last scene of most movies are devoid of action as well. I don't see a problem here. You just spent the last 19:45 shooting things. Is 15 minutes too long to go shooting a little bit less? If so, I pity you.

Originally posted by: muoot
Perhaps you are satisfied with Deus Ex Machina controling the doors of time and stopping the clock when the Administrator's teleport exploded ? >(which ,BTW, superimposes a myrid of implications...most of which will lead this conversation into the bowels of plot-story hell)

I felt it ended the game well enough. I am, again, quite looking forward to the continuation of this story further down the road. And yes, let us not get into the "if they can stop time, why don't they..." speculation. I have a feeling we'd be here a lot longer than we'd like.

If Valve does not resolve at least a percentage of the story by the end of the series, then yes, we will all have something to complain about. I can see them leaving some things up to the player to speculate at, but I would like answers as to why Gordon is being made to complete his "assignments". To me, that is the big question, the big X. Everything else is somewhat circumstantial.

There are other things I would like to know of course. What happened to Alyx, and the other characters as well, being at the top of that list. But if Valve never chooses to answer that question, there is little harm done there. If they decide that that is for the player to ponder for the rest of his or her days, so be it, as long as they answer The Big One. If your purpose, as you put it, is revealed, then the ancillary bits don't matter as much. Why was Alyx involved? Either by Machiavellian design or coincidence, she was involved to help Gordon. That is all the player need to know. Purpose breeds purpose, you might say, even if her running into Gordon were a complete fluke. To me, that would make it all the more realistic. Often events in life occur by chance.

But let me summarize this in bullet point form so I can get some sleep:

- I can understand if people did not find the last level enjoyable to play. That is wholly a matter of taste.
- I can understand if people do not enjoy waiting for answers. That is wholly a matter of taste and childishly impatient.
- I cannot understand why some people think the game is bad because their questions were not answered. This has nothing to do with gameplay.
- I cannot understand why some people thought all their questions were going to be answered at the end of this game because we knew over a year ago that Half Life 3 was coming and Half Life 2 would not resolve the plot.
- I cannot understand people who think the story is bad, because they do not know what the story is yet. They have only seen a part of it. A drawing of a firetruck looks pretty crappy if all you can see is a headlight.


There we have it. If you didn't like playing the last level, fine, that's up to you. But you cannot judge the story yet, as it is merely part of a greater whole, and I have no qualms with Valve's choice of how to begin or end this particular portion of said whole. If you do, fine, but you are, quite frankly, SOL and crying over spilled milk.

 

[silverpig]

I thought it was a great game. Best I've played in a long long time. The graphics and environment were amazing, the level variety was great, and it has amazing replay value. I found myself re-doing a lot of parts even after I had gotten through them just to see how else I could have gone about it.

I had a big stupid grin on my face in the boat level ripping down the canal flying off the jumps (I did a full backflip once... don't ask me how) with bullet spray in the water all around me and rockets flying by... too fun.

 

[jiffylube1024]

I thought Half Life 2 was incredible; one of my favourite games. (*SPOILER WARNING*) Yes, the ending sucked and was too abrupt (no real boss!? WTF!). However that super-charged gravity gun was frikkin awesome! Tossing guys around like a Jedi or something! (*END SPOILER*)

Best game ever? Definately not for me, but it's on my top 15. It's my favourite non-Blizzard PC game ever . Here's how I'd rank HL2 among my favourite games, off the top of my head (plus a bit of checking):

1. Final Fantasy VII
1.(tie) Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
3. Final Fantasy VI
4. Chrono Trigger
5. Starcraft/Brood War
6. Zelda: A Link to the Past
7. Super Metroid
8. Warcraft II
9. Metal Gear Solid
10. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
11. Final Fantasy IV
12. Chrono Cross
13. Metroid Prime
14. Half Life 2
15. Unreal Tournament
16. Halo
17? Far Cry

 

[muoot]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: muoot
I will (as I hope every other reasonable people who read this thread does) to disregard your trite, uninteresting attempt at satire when it lends absolutely nothing to your defense of the HL2 last chapter falling flat on it's can.

"Falling flat on it's can" is dependant on viewpoint. While I will whole-heartedly agree that the final chapter was not the most action packed of the game, I don't think it "fell flat on it's can" insofar as where Valve decided to end the game and pause the story.

hey, good for you. Then, keep it up, eh?

Originally posted by: muoot
Should the audience, based upon the events at the end of HL2 perceive a close to the events at City 17 with no questions (NONE) answered regarding the purpose of GF's mission in City 17 or, even, was/was not the Citidel destroyed?

You tell me why not. No, that is a purely sophmoric retort.

I imagine that why things occurred as they did in City 17 will be revealed to us in good time. Until such time as that information is disclosed, yes, the player may as well put City 17 behind them.

I'm not saying that the questions should remain unanswered forever. If you think that, you're assuming, and we all know what happens to U and ME when someone ASSumes.

looking backon the thread, it is not me who is assuming... the destruction of the Citadel, have passed, occurred, concluded.., are your words.

What I'm saying is that for the moment, the player knows all they need to know about City 17, and may not be revisiting it barring Half-Life 2 expansion packs. I'm sure the catalysts for the events there could be made clear in an entirely different locale, if the player were to learn more about the macro-situation, not just what Gordon can percieve with his boots on the pavement.

As for the storyline (not the gameplay), the audience may find a difficult time justifing a continunce since a minimal plotline was revealed to motivate the gameplayer.

Originally posted by: muoot
Perhaps you are satisfied with absolutely no resolultion or explaination in the least as to why you have been involved in this rebellion for the last 15-20 hours.

I am at the moment, because, as I have repeatedly tried to explain to you, the resolution/explanation is most assuredly upcoming. Just not in this game.

Originally posted by: muoot
Perhaps you are satisfied with the lack of difficulty and absence of any formitable challanges of the last chapter in HL2.

I had no problem with the last chapter. It got the game were it needed to be in order to conclude. The last scene of most movies are devoid of action as well. I don't see a problem here. You just spent the last 19:45 shooting things. Is 15 minutes too long to go shooting a little bit less? If so, I pity you.


Please do not twist my words to your (dis)favor. "lack of difficulty and absence of any formitable challanges" does not equal merely shooting things. Also, the game did not conclude, it paused.

Originally posted by: muoot
Perhaps you are satisfied with Deus Ex Machina controling the doors of time and stopping the clock when the Administrator's teleport exploded ? >(which ,BTW, superimposes a myrid of implications...most of which will lead this conversation into the bowels of plot-story hell)

I felt it ended the game well enough. I am, again, quite looking forward to the continuation of this story further down the road. And yes, let us not get into the "if they can stop time, why don't they..." speculation. I have a feeling we'd be here a lot longer than we'd like.

well enough by your standards (apparently)

If Valve does not resolve at least a percentage of the story by the end of the series, then yes, we will all have something to complain about. I can see them leaving some things up to the player to speculate at, but I would like answers as to why Gordon is being made to complete his "assignments". To me, that is the big question, the big X. Everything else is somewhat circumstantial.

Agreed. Or even, a taste of why GF was particapting HL2 would have been more compelling.

There are other things I would like to know of course. What happened to Alyx, and the other characters as well, being at the top of that list. But if Valve never chooses to answer that question, there is little harm done there. If they decide that that is for the player to ponder for the rest of his or her days, so be it, as long as they answer The Big One. If your purpose, as you put it, is revealed, then the ancillary bits don't matter as much. Why was Alyx involved? Either by Machiavellian design or coincidence, she was involved to help Gordon. That is all the player need to know. Purpose breeds purpose, you might say, even if her running into Gordon were a complete fluke. To me, that would make it all the more realistic. Often events in life occur by chance.

I deny the accident.
-J. Pollack

But let me summarize this in bullet point form so I can get some sleep: You sure you picked the appropriate screen name?

- I can understand if people did not find the last level enjoyable to play. That is wholly a matter of taste.

Agreed, and exactly my OP point.

- I can understand if people do not enjoy waiting for answers. That is wholly a matter of taste and childishly impatient.

Mistaken of you to imply a childish nature, to what is, in fact, human nature.

- I cannot understand why some people think the game is bad because their questions were not answered. This has nothing to do with gameplay.

while in may have nothing to do with gameplay in particular, it does have everything to do with audience participation & immersion in the storyline.

- I cannot understand why some people thought all their questions were going to be answered at the end of this game because we knew over a year ago that Half Life 3 was coming and Half Life 2 would not resolve the plot.


How about just one storyline answer or plot related reason to continue GF's participation on to HL3? eh? Or would that be impatient ????

- I cannot understand people who think the story is bad, because they do not know what the story is yet. They have only seen a part of it. A drawing of a firetruck looks pretty crappy if all you can see is a headlight.

yes. 15-20 hours of time to get a to a minmimalistic drawing of a headlight. En-thrall-ing.:roll:

There we have it. If you didn't like playing the last level, fine, that's up to you. But you cannot judge the story yet, as it is merely part of a greater whole, and I have no qualms with Valve's choice of how to begin or end this particular portion of said whole. If you do, fine, but you are, quite frankly, SOL and crying over spilled milk.

I didn't spill the milk. I was vitually imbued in it. Tantalizing every sweet drop of it...until the last chapter...when the glass was knocked over...and the glass was propped back up with the half of the amount of milk remaining.



"You know, when this is all over, I'm gonna...ah, who am I fooling?"

P.S. Citizen Kane is still one of the best films ever made.!

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: muoot
How about just one storyline answer or plot related reason to continue GF's participation on to HL3? eh? Or would that be impatient ????

I see where you're coming from on a lot of points (although I, myself, do not have the same issues with the game) but this quote shows that you completely missed the point of the ending. Gordon will participate in Half-Life 3 because he doesn't have a choice. He doesn't know how or why he gets in these situations, but he has to press on to survive.

Perhaps Valve is trying to show us how Gordon feels. Think about it: he has to be infinitely more frustrated than we are. His entire life is a manipulation! What did the G-Man say? "Rather than giving you the illusion of free choice..."?