NVAPI is not an alternative to Mantle. It's mostly the same thing like AMD ATI GPU Services (AGS) Library.
Mantle is unique at this time.
NVAPI is not an alternative to Mantle. It's mostly the same thing like AMD ATI GPU Services (AGS) Library.Nvidia has their own optimizations NVAPI being one of them...
If it works out for AMD, what can nvidia do ? They are not in the consoles, they have no way to get developers to use a to-the-metal API for their hardware on anywhere near the scale AMD will be able to because their architecture is in the dominant gaming platforms that are focused on optimizations; consoles. If developers on console are using Mantle already the work will be done, you're not going to be able to convince them to do additional work at additional expense just to benefit nvidia in PC games.
I could see them trying it themselves but it being relegated to the highly nvidia associated franchises, which would only be a few games, Batman, some Ubi and 4A games titles.
We'll have to wait to see the DX11 vs Mantle Battlefield 4 benches in December. If AMD can manage something respectable, say a 20% performance boost, then they'll have something that will be fairly powerful against nvidia in benchmarks. Anderrson at DICE is saying it is a significant performance advantage using Mantle in BF4, but we'll just have to wait and see the benchmarks. Hopefully some reviewers get a Mantle enabled copy of BF4 earlier than the Mantle patch release so we can get an idea sooner.
Back when AMD first let us know about Eyefinity, Nvidia made the claim that they had been sitting on the idea for a while and were working on it. 9 months later it arrived.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2918/7
I have no doubt we'll eventually get a similar claim from them in 12-18 months time, a few months before they are ready with their own "to the metal" API. I've thought long and hard about it, they really can't afford to just ignore Mantle and their response will be a mix of stalling and black ops until their own API is ready, probably sometime in 2015.
No you do NOT hope AMD hits a home run with Mantle...I do ,however.I am more believable in this case.
AMD was pushing Bulldozer too...
Are you calling me a liar Nigel? That's not very nice to come out and call somebody a liar.
I'll say it again. I hope AMD hits a home run with Mantle.
Better check yourself, Nigel. Do not presume to know my mind.
LOL....you better check yourself as well.If the cap fits....Are you calling me a liar Nigel? That's not very nice to come out and call somebody a liar.
I'll say it again. I hope AMD hits a home run with Mantle.
Better check yourself, Nigel. Do not presume to know my mind.
Mante won't be widely adopted. Why? Because AMD paid 8 million $ to get Mante into Frostbite 3. If they are in all consoles why do they paying money? Carmack said he won't code for Mantle. Indie devs won't use Mantle.
Can I ask why you want AMD to hit a homerun with Mantle?
I am not being sarcastic, I really want to hear your reason.
I think he's trying to say that he doesn't think you want AMD to hit such a big home run that Nvidia can't compete anymore.Are you calling me a liar Nigel? That's not very nice to come out and call somebody a liar.
I'll say it again. I hope AMD hits a home run with Mantle.
Better check yourself, Nigel. Do not presume to know my mind.
I told you young grasshopper. Dont fall for the forum hype spew fest. Good luck to you.
First, wait and see what Mantle is actually capable of. Not what these forum guys "say it can do".
Seeing is believing.
Who cares? That'll keep crap like Carmack's Rage turd out of Mantle, everyone will be happy. I'm pretty sure Battlefield sales currently, and will continue to, dwarf all indie sales by a huge amount, so that too is a big who cares? What's your point?
Lets wait and see what Mantle actually delivers. Not what AMD's marketing arm tells us it can deliver. That said. Wouldnt a lot of what Mantle does already be done via dev relations like TWIMTP? Nvidia helps optimize code for best results on their hardware. I'd imagine these optimizations are closer to the bare metal than DX.
Who are you and what have you done with Keysplayr?I hope AMD hits a home run with Mantle.
Well yes, there is that too!Because it may not be that big of a threat even if AMD marketing tries to tell people otherwise...
TWIMTP optimizations I am unsure of, but the "problem" with DX from what I gather is the stack is rather large and you can't really anything (except tessellation). So, it adds increased, sometimes unnecessary, processing time and then makes the low level calls for you.
Mantle is supposed to allow someone to circumvent that, but I'd imagine the added problem is you have to write all your image processing yourself (or someone will have to provide an API to do that). A more modular API would be better for developers, but MS can easily respond to Mantle by allowing DX to be broken apart or steps be skipped.
They way I see it is if Mantle is just a true low level API, only the highly gifted will be able to actually make improvements in the speed and efficiency over DX, but at the expense of specialization being required for the developers. I equate it to how Hibernate has made data base object mapping so much better in Java. Sure, someone skilled enough can make more efficient ways to map objects and interact with a database, but at the expense of requiring a ton of boiler plate code and having special knowledge to do so. Hibernate allows more mid to low level developers code faster and overall better at the expense of some performance.
Because it may not be that big of a threat even if AMD marketing tries to tell people otherwise...
Because they really need.... something. They need to stick around and provide ample competition so we as the consumers have some leverage with our buying dollars.Can I ask why you want AMD to hit a homerun with Mantle?
I am not being sarcastic, I really want to hear your reason.
Who cares? That'll keep crap like Carmack's Rage turd out of Mantle, everyone will be happy. I'm pretty sure Battlefield sales currently, and will continue to, dwarf all indie sales by a huge amount, so that too is a big who cares? What's your point?
I personally don't want them to. I think if Mantle somehow (which I don't believe will happen) is so completely good, it will be bad for video cards. If Mantle makes AMD cards half the price of Nvidia cards beat said Nvidia cards, one company becomes irrelevant. Then we get AMD as the only real choice for gaming.
Currently, we get have a flip flopping of best cards every half a year or so, if Mantle is that good, we no longer have that (or we get cheap crippled AMD cards that can compete with expensive Nvidia cards and no high end AMD). I'd prefer not to have just one company supplying my gaming needs and have a competition on which is better.
Because they really need.... something. They need to stick around and provide ample competition so we as the consumers have some leverage with our buying dollars.
Pass that along to Nigel.
If mantle is 20% faster then Nvidia just has to increase performance by 20%. They are the bigger company and should be more than able to beat AMD. Nvidia pushes the tech then the next year amd takes advantage. Sticll rinse and repeat year after year what faster. That is UNLESS mantle is 30-50% faster. Then Nvidia is hosed
I made valid points why Mantle won't be used and yours desperate negation worth Oscar. Battlefield will kill Indies industry. :thumbsup: I hope you will enjoy being killed 1000 times by medkit and by other ArtificialAiming presents in Battlefield 4. :thumbsup:
If mantle is 20% faster then Nvidia just has to increase performance by 20%. They are the bigger company and should be more than able to beat AMD. Nvidia pushes the tech then the next year amd takes advantage.
Sticll rinse and repeat year after year what faster. That is UNLESS mantle is 30-50% faster. Then Nvidia is hosed