Why hasn't the GOP repealed Obamacare and where is their alternative Health plan?

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echo4747

Golden Member
Jun 22, 2005
1,979
156
106
I think a plan that every citizen gets a single payer barebone plan might work . Then those who want more coverage can buy additional add-ons ...similar to buying options/packages on a car . Other things like additional competition for drugs and limiting/capping the amount one can sue for malpractice may help keep costs down a bit too. Travellers /Tourists would need to pay some type of fee ( for coverage during their stay) while visiting/vacationing (unless they have some type of proof of acceptable insurance).
 

Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
91
You trust congress an awful lot. I would imagine that's due to what you feel are high premiums. Just for the record, people have had premiums like that before ACA, and not through the ACA.

Con's own it, no matter how much you don't want to believe it.

We agree on a couple things:

1. Healthcare in our country is very expensive.
2. Medicare in it's current form wouldn't support a single payer system.

Medicare for all(single payer) would not look like medicare does now.

My premiums have gone up $1000/mo since Obama was elected and it's a much worse policy. I'm pissed
 

Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
91
I think a plan that every citizen gets a single payer barebone plan might work . Then those who want more coverage can buy additional add-ons ...similar to buying options/packages on a car . Other things like additional competition for drugs and limiting/capping the amount one can sue for malpractice may help keep costs down a bit too. Travellers /Tourists would need to pay some type of fee ( for coverage during their stay) while visiting/vacationing (unless they have some type of proof of acceptable insurance).

That's similar to how Medicare is now. Most people don't understand that most of our population on Medicare also pay a few hundred a month for a gap plan because "they want more coverage."
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,080
18,557
146
My premiums have gone up $1000/mo since Obama was elected and it's a much worse policy. I'm pissed

My premiums doubled, and I'm not on an ACA plan. Yea, it's shitty...but I can be thankful that my brother and his family now have healthcare.
 

Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
91
My premiums doubled, and I'm not on an ACA plan. Yea, it's shitty...but I can be thankful that my brother and his family now have healthcare.
OK, but mine tripled. There's a limit to this shit. Enough's enough.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,477
28,508
136
All of you just missed the point entirely. The point is EVERY Politician makes claims and promises that they do not keep.

Trump has only been in office for 30+ days.

And all of you are in an uproar because the Obamacare has not been replaced yet.

That is stupid.
Actually you missed the point. Repeal and replace ran rampant since 2010. With all those repeal votes (60) there was plenty of time to work on replace. Republicans did nothing because they are a bunch of two faced hypocrites. The repeal votes were red meat for their base. They could give two shits if people have healthcare. But now they have total control of govt and promises have come home to roost.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
That's similar to how Medicare is now. Most people don't understand that most of our population on Medicare also pay a few hundred a month for a gap plan because "they want more coverage."

I pay $50/mo. You've been pulling numbers out of your ass the whole thread.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,656
5,177
136
Then you should have had the Repubs. actually fund the ACA for the 3 years that was legislated instead of refusing.

Why?

It was common knowledge that when the ACA came into effect, there would be an overwhelming amount of people who would heavily utilize the insurance they now could obtain...people who had previously put off any medical care, outside emergencies, because they couldn't afford the treatments/MD visits/meds/etc. And these people would tend to be sicker than most, so would initially cost more than the ins. co's wanted to pay out, otherwise these ins. co's profits would be eaten into.

So, just like when the Repubs. passed Bush's Medicare Prescription Act, the govt. was supposed to cover the shortfalls during the initial years, 3 in each case, to mitigate the large amount of outlays the ins. co's would face in paying for all this care.

Seemed to work for the Medicare side...the market for that is healthy, competitive and costs aren't out of hand.

On the other hand, when the ins. co's. tried to get the payment promised by the legislation, the Repubs. who now controlled Congress, refused to pay what was agreed upon.

So what were the ins. co's supposed to do? Their risk had increased dramatically with the issuance of the insurance plans. The promised coverage by the govt. didn't come through as promised.....so their solution was increase premiums, about the only avenue left to them to try to cover the shortfalls they were experiencing, or quit issuing ins.

Both things happened. Now, would premiums have gone up as much as they have if the ACA had been properly funded through its initial phase, when the market was quite expected to have a rocky start before leveling out? Probably not, but we'll never know because the Repubs. refused to fund it properly nor consider amendments to the ACA to help "fix" it.
 
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Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
91

Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
91
Then you should have had the Repubs. actually fund the ACA for the 3 years that was legislated instead of refusing.

Why?

It was common knowledge that when the ACA came into effect, there would be an overwhelming amount of people who would heavily utilize the insurance they now could obtain...people who had previously put off any medical care, outside emergencies, because they couldn't afford the treatments/MD visits/meds/etc. And these people would tend to be sicker than most, so would initially cost more than the ins. co's wanted to pay out, otherwise these ins. co's profits would be eaten into.

So, just like when the Repubs. passed Bush's Medicare Prescription Act, the govt. was supposed to cover the shortfalls during the initial years, 3 in each case, to mitigate the large amount of outlays the ins. co's would face in paying for all this care.

Seemed to work for the Medicare side...the market for that is healthy, competitive and costs aren't out of hand.

On the other hand, when the ins. co's. tried to get the payment promised by the legislation, the Repubs. who now controlled Congress, refused to pay what was agreed upon.

So what were the ins. co's supposed to do? Their risk had increased dramatically with the issuance of the insurance plans. The promised coverage by the govt. didn't come through as promised.....so their solution was increase premiums, about the only avenue left to them to try to cover the shortfalls they were experiencing, or quit issuing ins.

Both things happened. Now, would premiums have gone up as much as they have if the ACA had been properly funded through its initial phase, when the market was quite expected to have a rocky start before leveling out? Probably not, but we'll never know because the Repubs. refused to fund it properly nor consider amendments to the ACA to help "fix" it.

No, I support not pouring more money into Obamacare. That's the last thing we need. As for GW Bush's Rx law, I was never a big fan of that either. It led to the rise of the Tea Party and horrible approval ratings by the end of his term.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Yes of course he had to withdraw because of a lack of democratic support. Had they supported him he would have been confirmed. You can ALSO blame (credit, really as he was awful) Republicans, but I would blame them far less than Democrats for his defeat, as far more voted for him.

I would 100% blame Republicans for a lack of a public option along with whatever democrats voted against it. The idea that the minority party bears no responsibility for their actions is part of what got us to this sorry place. It's important we all hold Republicans to account for their shameful behavior under Obama.

It was all blue dog dems who voted against it. The south drags us down.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,080
18,557
146
So you like your excessive premiums?

It feels like we're getting down to the fundamental difference between our stances.

Do you believe Healthcare is a human right?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Then you should have had the Repubs. actually fund the ACA for the 3 years that was legislated instead of refusing.

Why?

It was common knowledge that when the ACA came into effect, there would be an overwhelming amount of people who would heavily utilize the insurance they now could obtain...people who had previously put off any medical care, outside emergencies, because they couldn't afford the treatments/MD visits/meds/etc. And these people would tend to be sicker than most, so would initially cost more than the ins. co's wanted to pay out, otherwise these ins. co's profits would be eaten into.

So, just like when the Repubs. passed Bush's Medicare Prescription Act, the govt. was supposed to cover the shortfalls during the initial years, 3 in each case, to mitigate the large amount of outlays the ins. co's would face in paying for all this care.

Seemed to work for the Medicare side...the market for that is healthy, competitive and costs aren't out of hand.

On the other hand, when the ins. co's. tried to get the payment promised by the legislation, the Repubs. who now controlled Congress, refused to pay what was agreed upon.

So what were the ins. co's supposed to do? Their risk had increased dramatically with the issuance of the insurance plans. The promised coverage by the govt. didn't come through as promised.....so their solution was increase premiums, about the only avenue left to them to try to cover the shortfalls they were experiencing, or quit issuing ins.

Both things happened. Now, would premiums have gone up as much as they have if the ACA had been properly funded through its initial phase, when the market was quite expected to have a rocky start before leveling out? Probably not, but we'll never know because the Repubs. refused to fund it properly nor consider amendments to the ACA to help "fix" it.

Thank you. I appreciate your perspective & your words in general.

Repub Politicians took a contrarian attitude from the beginning, that it wasn't about the needs of the People but about beating Obama. They're ideologically opposed to govt intervention in the so-called Free Market, anyway, regardless of the consequences to the People.

The Great Depression? The near miss of the Ownership Society & the Great Recession? Oh, well. Shit happens. Perfectly natural. It's nothing their kind of people can't weather & exploit with ease.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
91
So you like your excessive premiums?

It feels like we're getting down to the fundamental difference between our stances.

Do you believe Healthcare is a human right?

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a right. If you call your doctor with a problem and he refuses to make a house call, I wouldn't say that he violated your rights. If you need shoulder surgery but no one will do it for free does that mean your rights are violated? I don't think so. Doctors/hospitals are a profession offering a service. They deserve to be paid for that service
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Nobody said free.

Yes or No. What's your stance.

That's easy, it's no. If it were a right then you could justify forcibly harvesting organs from people to give to those who needed them. Hell, maybe that's the approach we should take - either you donate funds from your wallet or a kidney from your abdomen. It's a modern day revision of "ass, grass, or gas; no one rides for free."
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
That's easy, it's no. If it were a right then you could justify forcibly harvesting organs from people to give to those who needed them. Hell, maybe that's the approach we should take - either you donate funds from your wallet or a kidney from your abdomen. It's a modern day revision of "ass, grass, or gas; no one rides for free."

That's absurd.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,080
18,557
146
yea, it's glenn, absurd is what he deals in, I pretty much just skip it. At least Sea Ray is having a conversation.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Man you are a real horse's ass. The hell I am. I write the checks every month.

Here are some sample premiums for Medicare supplemental plans:

https://www.medicare.gov/find-a-pla...e-policies.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

Looks like a 65 yr old pays about $170/mo. My parents in their 80s pay over $300. I don't give a shit what you pay. These examples are a few hundred a month.

You're right. I apologize. I pay $50/mo for a Medicare advantage plan.

OTOH, high premiums are a necessity considering the people covered & the services entailed. The vast majority of Medicare recipients can't afford it. It's not really germane to discussion of Repubs & the ACA, anyway, other than saying their efforts will likely make it less affordable by way of reducing standard benefits of Medicare.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a right. If you call your doctor with a problem and he refuses to make a house call, I wouldn't say that he violated your rights. If you need shoulder surgery but no one will do it for free does that mean your rights are violated? I don't think so. Doctors/hospitals are a profession offering a service. They deserve to be paid for that service

I think we all believe that some rights involve collective action. If we have the right to trial, to govt & legal representation, to emergency services & so forth we can include the right to medical care as well. We pay cops, judges, firemen, public defenders & so forth so we can obviously pay medical professionals if we, America, decide to do so.
 
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Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
91
You're right. I apologize. I pay $50/mo for a Medicare advantage plan.

OTOH, high premiums are a necessity considering the people covered & the services entailed. The vast majority of Medicare recipients can't afford it. It's not really germane to discussion of Repubs & the ACA, anyway, other than saying their efforts will likely make it less affordable by way of reducing standard benefits of Medicare.

I can't speak for all Republicans but I personally haven't mentioned reducing standard benefits of Medicare
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,080
18,557
146
I'm not sure why people want America to stop taking care of it's citizens when it comes to healthcare. Like you said Jhhnn, there's already numerous departments in place to do just that.
 
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