Why I am not a conservative by Moonbeam

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,096
6,312
126
Well Harvey finally pushed me over the edge wondering exactly what conservatives are trying to conserve. He remined me that I have been mulling that question over for a long time and had reached my own conclusion. It used to be back in Clinton'd day that Conservatives probably didn't know who they were because they were consumed almost 100% by jealousy that Clinton was getting a bj when he talked to them on the phone while the wify was asking who is it, is it the President, can I talk to him when you get through. I know, the unmarried ones were probably jealous of something else, so don't go getting picky about my facts.

The point is that now that we can all see how ridiculous Conservatism is up close with Shrub being a Conservative and all, and we see also all that same mean spirited agression now turned on each other with the ultra hawks calling the hawks anti American and unpatriotic and all. Yup it's a food fight all right, but at least we can discuss it intelligently here on ATOT. And I mean to have an intelligent discussion, too, if possible. That's why I'm not using any inflamitory language or outrageous claims.

So what I thought a conservative was was somebody who wants to preserve the values of the past. I could never get that. It always sounded like cold cereal to me, leftovers, yesterday's lunch. Look at Galilelo. He was a liberal and the Conservative church finally got around to his point of view how long later? Same with evolution, with fundamentalists trailing the Catholics for how many decades or decades more?

All conservatism is is yesterday's liberalism. The Constitution was written not by merely genius level Liberals but flaming left winged radicals. They were off the chart. Now you can pretend to believe in the Constitution and call yourself a Conservative. My my, how times change. So what's with Conservatives? What's with them is they are Chicken Liberals. They're scared to be Liberals until enough time passes and it gets popular enough so it doesn't take any courage to be one.

Now you can see that when you look at a Liberal as a Conservative, you're looking at the future. It's how your grand kids are going to think. But what I don't understand is why people can't see that if yesterday's Liberalism is so worthy of conserving, why not get with the times and just be a Liberal. Why wait? It's where the thinking part of humanity is taking you. Get on board.

 

Soybomb

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2000
9,506
2
81
You're trying to group everything into 2 piles, the conservatives who you say are trying to preserve the values of the past and the liberals who are trying the "new" things. I don't feel like you've adequately described a conservative first. Its perhaps closer to conservates socially though than economically I think though. I won't even try to define either one though as its too broad a scope for me to cover at work

You've also described successful "liberal" ideas but how about the liberal ideas that failed and where conservativism was a good thing. If liberals always won we'd all be hippies (humor has been injected into my post, please don't take anything too seriously)
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,347
8,434
126
in the US: conservatives are bastardized liberals, liberals are mild socialists, and the socialists are commies.

me, i'm a progressive.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
30,990
12,539
136
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Well Harvey finally pushed me over the edge wondering exactly what conservatives are trying to conserve. He remined me that I have been mulling that question over for a long time and had reached my own conclusion. It used to be back in Clinton'd day that Conservatives probably didn't know who they were because they were consumed almost 100% by jealousy that Clinton was getting a bj when he talked to them on the phone while the wify was asking who is it, is it the President, can I talk to him when you get through. I know, the unmarried ones were probably jealous of something else, so don't go getting picky about my facts.

The point is that now that we can all see how ridiculous Conservatism is up close with Shrub being a Conservative and all, and we see also all that same mean spirited agression now turned on each other with the ultra hawks calling the hawks anti American and unpatriotic and all. Yup it's a food fight all right, but at least we can discuss it intelligently here on ATOT. And I mean to have an intelligent discussion, too, if possible. That's why I'm not using any inflamitory language or outrageous claims.

So what I thought a conservative was was somebody who wants to preserve the values of the past. I could never get that. It always sounded like cold cereal to me, leftovers, yesterday's lunch. Look at Galilelo. He was a liberal and the Conservative church finally got around to his point of view how long later? Same with evolution, with fundamentalists trailing the Catholics for how many decades or decades more?

All conservatism is is yesterday's liberalism. The Constitution was written not by merely genius level Liberals but flaming left winged radicals. They were off the chart. Now you can pretend to believe in the Constitution and call yourself a Conservative. My my, how times change. So what's with Conservatives? What's with them is they are Chicken Liberals. They're scared to be Liberals until enough time passes and it gets popular enough so it doesn't take any courage to be one.

Now you can see that when you look at a Liberal as a Conservative, you're looking at the future. It's how your grand kids are going to think. But what I don't understand is why people can't see that if yesterday's Liberalism is so worthy of conserving, why not get with the times and just be a Liberal. Why wait? It's where the thinking part of humanity is taking you. Get on board.
Interesting.

The Constitution of the US states that a black man is worth 3/5 of a white man. I believe that is for census reasons, but it still shows how your founding fathers really felt about equality and rights.
 

Mister T

Diamond Member
Feb 25, 2000
3,439
0
0
Call me whatever you want, I don't give a damn... but

DO NOT take half my money because I work my ass off
DO NOT compromise my constitutional right to bear arms
DO NOT tell me that people are entitled to all kinds of welfare

 

Legendary

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2002
7,019
1
0
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
It always sounded like cold cereal to me, leftovers, yesterday's lunch.
Isn't cereal supposed to be cold?

I think by cold cereal he means previously hot cereal (oatmeal?) that has been left out and then becomes cold.

Anyway, well said. Personally I follow the person who supports anything that will benefit the progress of the country.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,398
15,788
146
No matter how you try to smear the conservation of values, you can't get over some very basic ones... Like bans on rape and murder.

Don't be so progressive that you fail to see WHY some values are there in the first place. But at the same time, don't be so conservative to not see how some things can be changed for the better.

Both sides suck.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,096
6,312
126
I hadn't noticed any Liberals advocating legalizing rape and murder but then I'm a Conservative Liberal. And I WASN"T smearing the conservation of values, only holding on to inferior ones instead of improved ones, like not bucking the abolition of slavery.

OK Mister T, I'll let the grand kids tell you.
 

schmedy

Senior member
Dec 31, 1999
998
0
76
Call me whatever you want, I don't give a damn... but

DO NOT take half my money because I work my ass off
DO NOT compromise my constitutional right to bear arms
DO NOT tell me that people are entitled to all kinds of welfare
Wll said Mister T.
Don't assume that I can't run my family and life safely and need you(and your laws) to "protect" me from myself.
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Well Harvey finally pushed me over the edge wondering exactly what conservatives are trying to conserve. He remined me that I have been mulling that question over for a long time and had reached my own conclusion. It used to be back in Clinton'd day that Conservatives probably didn't know who they were because they were consumed almost 100% by jealousy that Clinton was getting a bj when he talked to them on the phone while the wify was asking who is it, is it the President, can I talk to him when you get through. I know, the unmarried ones were probably jealous of something else, so don't go getting picky about my facts.

The point is that now that we can all see how ridiculous Conservatism is up close with Shrub being a Conservative and all, and we see also all that same mean spirited agression now turned on each other with the ultra hawks calling the hawks anti American and unpatriotic and all. Yup it's a food fight all right, but at least we can discuss it intelligently here on ATOT. And I mean to have an intelligent discussion, too, if possible. That's why I'm not using any inflamitory language or outrageous claims.

So what I thought a conservative was was somebody who wants to preserve the values of the past. I could never get that. It always sounded like cold cereal to me, leftovers, yesterday's lunch. Look at Galilelo. He was a liberal and the Conservative church finally got around to his point of view how long later? Same with evolution, with fundamentalists trailing the Catholics for how many decades or decades more?

All conservatism is is yesterday's liberalism. The Constitution was written not by merely genius level Liberals but flaming left winged radicals. They were off the chart. Now you can pretend to believe in the Constitution and call yourself a Conservative. My my, how times change. So what's with Conservatives? What's with them is they are Chicken Liberals. They're scared to be Liberals until enough time passes and it gets popular enough so it doesn't take any courage to be one.

Now you can see that when you look at a Liberal as a Conservative, you're looking at the future. It's how your grand kids are going to think. But what I don't understand is why people can't see that if yesterday's Liberalism is so worthy of conserving, why not get with the times and just be a Liberal. Why wait? It's where the thinking part of humanity is taking you. Get on board.
Interesting.

The Constitution of the US states that a black man is worth 3/5 of a white man. I believe that is for census reasons, but it still shows how your founding fathers really felt about equality and rights.

Easy to be critical in 2002 of actions and attitudes of the 18th century. Actually the Constitution does not state that " that a black man is worth 3/5 of a white man" rather it states that for census purposes "other people" are to be counted as three fifths of all persons. The Constitution was actually silent on the issue of slavery since there would have been no Constitution had the issue been pressed at that time. The founders were well aware of all the implications of that silence and knew eventually the issue would likely endanger the union.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,096
6,312
126
schmedy, weren't you over in the speeding thread talking about how one of my officers gave you a ticket because you don't know how to drive safely and need to be made to act properly?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,096
6,312
126
Linflas, sounds like you are saying that liberals know what's right, but have to wait for everybody else to catch up before they can do anything. Must have been really tough to admit to yourself that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUALL just had to mean Black Men too even if it meant disolution. Talk about your crisis of morality. Do what's right and start a Civil War. We must have had some heavy dudes leading this country.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,096
6,312
126
ffm has a good point. The quakers are the Liberals of the religious world. We friends, I think. Like the Sufis.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
I can think of lots of reasons I am conservative on some issues but I think the the best reason is because Moonie and Harvey are liberals.

I can think of no better reason. A balance must be struck.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,096
6,312
126
If Dave is offering himself as a balance, do we have a muscular volunteer to strike him?



Edit: What is the benefit of a balance in this case, to keep the present from arriving till 100 years or 50?
 

thebestMAX

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
7,489
124
106
I was going to say, OK, You have convinced me. Im becoming a conservative liberal AGAIN but then Dave Sohmer saved me with this:

<< can think of lots of reasons I am conservative on some issues but I think the the best reason is because Moonie and Harvey are liberals. >>
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,096
6,312
126
Well thebestMAX is clearly a flip flop wimp so we don't want him landing the blow, especially that kind. I already saw today what Dave thinks of 'those'.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
ffm has a good point. The quakers are the Liberals of the religious world. We friends, I think. Like the Sufis.

:Q Someone actually saw one of my jokes as a philosophical/political statement like a fair amount of them are meant to be :Q
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,398
15,788
146
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
Interesting.

The Constitution of the US states that a black man is worth 3/5 of a white man. I believe that is for census reasons, but it still shows how your founding fathers really felt about equality and rights.

Hmmm, let's see what it really says...

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Funny, I see no mention of color here. And considering the fact that there were FREE black men at the time, I think this statement is a farce.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam[/i]
If Dave is offering himself as a balance, do we have a muscular volunteer to strike him?
Don't be a sissy. Step up to the plate.



Edit: What is the benefit of a balance in this case, to keep the present from arriving till 100 years or 50?
The balance is there because there are an equal number of people who think the opposite of what you do. Neither of you is completely correct so a balance must be struck until a majority of people think a certain way, for an extended period of time (gradual change) in order to tip the scales.

A balance must be struck.

Swing away.

 
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