Why I hate political parties.

[EyeMNathan]

dmcowen in a recent thread lumped me in with Republicans.

I'm not a Republican. In fact I'm rather cynical about U.S. politics and despise the political party system. It discourages individual thought and encourages people into a "sheep" mentality, where because their party mates are voting for or against something, they should too.

No, I don't have a better solution. But I am not happy with the choices I am given. Republicans, Democrats, or if I want to feel like a rebel I can vote for some radical third party on either side of the spectrum, like Pat Buchanan and his Fourth Reich Constitution party, or any number of the Moore-ite Ultra-Liberals.

Like most 20-somethings, I find my views dont fit with any political party, since unlike the older generation, my views are my own, and I was not expected to share the same views as anyone else.

I am against partial-birth abortion except in life-threatening situations, and believe abortion should be an option for all mothers until the third trimester. (Democratic leaning view.)

I am against strict gun control in the U.S. Once they can guarantee me that criminals won't have guns either, then I will give them my guns willingly. (Republican leaning view.)

I support the right of gays to get married. Marriage doesn't mean anything these days anyway, I don't feel it needs to be "protected". (Democratic leaning view.)

I support ending frivolous litigation. (Republican leaning view.)

I'll bet I'm 1:1 ratio on hotbutton issues in terms of what I believe, and I'll bet there isn't a single Senator who will vote for what I believe.

Why? Because they have sacrificed their beliefs to fit in with their political party cronies.

Discuss.

 

[Amplifier]

Politics don't matter.

 

[rsd]

Your first mistake was clicking into P&N, and second caring what dmcowen said.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: rsd
Your first mistake was clicking into P&N, and second caring what dmcowen said.

Agree with the 2nd point.

 

[Rainsford]

I agree, I think of political parties as sort of an "easy" approach to politics for the sports fan mentality. Why bother developing nuanced political views when you can just cheer for the home team?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: EyeMNathan
dmcowen in a recent thread lumped me in with Republicans.

I'm not a Republican. In fact I'm rather cynical about U.S. politics and despise the political party system. It discourages individual thought and encourages people into a "sheep" mentality, where because their party mates are voting for or against something, they should too.

No, I don't have a better solution. But I am not happy with the choices I am given. Republicans, Democrats, or if I want to feel like a rebel I can vote for some radical third party on either side of the spectrum, like Pat Buchanan and his Fourth Reich Constitution party, or any number of the Moore-ite Ultra-Liberals.

Like most 20-somethings, I find my views dont fit with any political party, since unlike the older generation, my views are my own, and I was not expected to share the same views as anyone else.

I am against partial-birth abortion except in life-threatening situations, and believe abortion should be an option for all mothers until the third trimester. (Democratic leaning view.)

I am against strict gun control in the U.S. Once they can guarantee me that criminals won't have guns either, then I will give them my guns willingly. (Republican leaning view.)

I support the right of gays to get married. Marriage doesn't mean anything these days anyway, I don't feel it needs to be "protected". (Democratic leaning view.)

I support ending frivolous litigation. (Republican leaning view.)

I'll bet I'm 1:1 ratio on hotbutton issues in terms of what I believe, and I'll bet there isn't a single Senator who will vote for what I believe.

Why? Because they have sacrificed their beliefs to fit in with their political party cronies.

Discuss.

Many in here use the same talking points as the Republican movement talk show hosts they allow themselves to be brainwashed by therefore that lumps them into the Republican camp, period.

Furthermore the Talk shows all pushed for Bush just like the ones whining in here about being lumped as Republicans.

Now those very same Talk show hosts and posters in here are whining about Bush. Totally inmaterial and moot since said parties supported the Bush Regime 110%.

End of discussion, you have lost all reason to complain against the current Regime you had an opportunity to put to pasture to at least try out a different Regime.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I agree, I think of political parties as sort of an "easy" approach to politics for the sports fan mentality. Why bother developing nuanced political views when you can just cheer for the home team?

Nuance is evil.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
End of discussion, you have lost all reason to complain against the current Regime you had an opportunity to put to pasture to at least try out a different Regime.

So, only Republicans have reason to complain?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
End of discussion, you have lost all reason to complain against the current Regime you had an opportunity to put to pasture to at least try out a different Regime.

So, only Republicans have reason to complain?

No, just the opposite, none of them have any business complaining about Bush at all.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
End of discussion, you have lost all reason to complain against the current Regime you had an opportunity to put to pasture to at least try out a different Regime.

So, only Republicans have reason to complain?

No, just the opposite, none of them have any business complaining about Bush at all.

Why not? He's a great guy to complain about. Apparently, complaining about him even sells ad spots.

 

[Amused]

I feel much the same way.

I oppose the war on drugs.

I support a woman's right to abort her fetus so long as the fetus is biologically dependant on the mother.

I oppose any marriage regulations/restrictions, period. Government has no business regulating adult relationships.

Let's put it this way: I am VERY liberal in that I support freedom. Both civil AND economic freedom.

As for dmcowen674... folks, why bother? This is a man who assumed "neocons" were behind the anti-religion movement:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...hreadid=1392668&enterthread=y&arctab=y

Dave quotes:

Neocons are masquarading Marxists plain and simple.

Neocons like yourself use the new "public property" argument to wipe out Historical references to promote a Socialist Agenda.

Read the thread above to see just how seriously inverted Dave's thinking is. It's almost scary that anyone can be so ignorant and deluded in this day and age.

In short, don't base anything you think or feel on what he says. It's a waste of time and energy.

 

[walkur]

It still amazes me that the US still has a 2 party system.
You'd think that with all the moaning and complaining about both parties, some viable alternatives would have sprouted.

As an outsider it seems that there is only 1 thing that is preventing this from happening.

Money.

Concerning this i'm happy that i live in a small country where the threshold to create a nationwide political party isn't that big.
Altough this has it's disadvantages; you'll almost always have a coalition of different parties ruling the nation, each with it's own agenda resulting in slow decisions.

ow... but to live in an utopian world (altough P&N would be a bit boring then)

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: walkur
It still amazes me that the US still has a 2 party system.
You'd think that with all the moaning and complaining about both parties, some viable alternatives would have sprouted.

As an outsider it seems that there is only 1 thing that is preventing this from happening.

Money.

Chicken or the egg argument.

Do the two major political parties dominate because they have money, or do they have money because they are the most popular parties that the majority favor?

All political money in this country is donated (you get matching federal funds after you win a primary). If they have more money, it's because the majority donate more to them.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: EyeMNathan
dmcowen in a recent thread lumped me in with Republicans.

Discuss.

If you worry what a whack job like Mcowen thinks then you are already lost. Just because he might be right on rare occasion doesn't mean that his opinions meets sh!t, hell even a broken clock is right twice a day.

If I were a Liberal I would be extremely annoyed that Mcowen posts his lunacy here all the while acting like he speaks for all Liberals when in reality he only speaks for the Lunatic Fringe Liberals. Of course if I were Whacko Extremist Conservative I would love Mcowen as he just adds fuel to their BS that all who doesn't think lockstep like they do must be part of the Lunatic Fringe of the Left.

You obviously are not an Extremist (Liberal or Conservative) so just ignore both sides for the Nutjobs that they are.

 

[piasabird]

I have not seen any president that I did not complain about. The only people that cant complain are those that did not vote.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I have not seen any president that I did not complain about. The only people that cant complain are those that did not vote.

Why? I had at least one candidate that I could rest easy voting for. If I had none, you're saying that, by not helping put someone I might despise into office, I would not have the right to complain? That's as lacking in substance as dmcowen's argument.

Anyone affected by the electoral process has a right to complain. If someone had a candidate, and didn't vote out of idiocy, then fine--ignore them. If someone does not vote because they have no candidate to vote for, or because they dislike the electoral process being used, or a part of that process, I fail to see how their right to complain about the situation becomes nullified.

As an example, if I can't get a receipt, and there are not going to be HUMANS, able to PHYSICALLY count my vote, if needed, I won't be voting again. That is out of a deep moral disdain for electronic voting with no trail or redundancy. IMO, my state has betrayed me by implementing the Diebold machines, with no method to be sure the votes are correct, or any additional record-keeping, to check for tampering.

I fail to see how standing by my views should remove my right to present them to, and/or impress them upon, others; where giving in, and failing to act on the views I have formed, validates my right to present these views, which I would have practised as a hypocrite.

(edit: clarification--definitely not grammar! )

 

[Yilar]

Well here in Europe or rather in my country (The Netherlands) we have as much as 15 different parties to vote on, which generally means they need to form a coalition in order to be able to form a government, which is not a bad thing as you get mixed view on policies or concencus. The downside is that everything needs to discussed till the bitter end..

Meaning nothing ground-breaking gets done.. Or as the last elections show, if your are the largest party but have no majority, you just invite enough other small parties so you can do what you want, even though the majority voted left wing instead of right-wing.. I.e. no system is perfect.

But I do agree, the 'U.S. democracy' that Bush always promotes is a joke.. Two parties and most of the politics are formed on the basis of who donated the most to his campaign.. He has a small majority of the voters on his side and he pushes through leglislation which is so contrary to the remaining 47% of the country that didn't vote for him is almost unreal.. It's like an eternal struggle between two juggernaughts and who gives a fvck about what happens to the people we hurt in the progress?? It amazes me time and time again that nothing is done about that man and his goverment.. Quantanamo bay anyone? Why isn't thw world screaming for the prisoners to get a fair trail and humane treatment? Do we not want the same for our POW's?

More and more I get the feeling that our collective governments care nothing for our vote, our trust, our planet or our lives for that matter.. Which is really what they should be doing, or is it?

 

[Cerb]

Yes, they should be, but they will not.
Instead, they somehow get people to stick an angel on their cars, and continue voting for them, and sending them money.

 

[XZeroII]

I agree. I am the same way in that I form my own beliefs that fit niether party very well. I do lean toward the right, but both sides pretty much suck. However, there really is no way to satisfy everyone, so what are we going to do? There are no viable 3rd party candidates because all of them seem to have specific agendas and ignore the rest. I guess that we are just waiting for someone to come along and show us a better way to do things overall.

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: EyeMNathan
dmcowen in a recent thread lumped me in with Republicans.

I'm not a Republican. In fact I'm rather cynical about U.S. politics and despise the political party system. It discourages individual thought and encourages people into a "sheep" mentality, where because their party mates are voting for or against something, they should too.

No, I don't have a better solution. But I am not happy with the choices I am given. Republicans, Democrats, or if I want to feel like a rebel I can vote for some radical third party on either side of the spectrum, like Pat Buchanan and his Fourth Reich Constitution party, or any number of the Moore-ite Ultra-Liberals.

Like most 20-somethings, I find my views dont fit with any political party, since unlike the older generation, my views are my own, and I was not expected to share the same views as anyone else.

I am against partial-birth abortion except in life-threatening situations, and believe abortion should be an option for all mothers until the third trimester. (Democratic leaning view.)

I am against strict gun control in the U.S. Once they can guarantee me that criminals won't have guns either, then I will give them my guns willingly. (Republican leaning view.)

I support the right of gays to get married. Marriage doesn't mean anything these days anyway, I don't feel it needs to be "protected". (Democratic leaning view.)

I support ending frivolous litigation. (Republican leaning view.)

I'll bet I'm 1:1 ratio on hotbutton issues in terms of what I believe, and I'll bet there isn't a single Senator who will vote for what I believe.

Why? Because they have sacrificed their beliefs to fit in with their political party cronies.

Discuss.

The topic summary starts with: "And why you shouldnt assume" and then you prove you do assume by saying "since unlike the older generation."

You sound like the children that say no one should be judged by anyone based on the clothes they wear and that they don't judge others. When asked what they think about "that person" the response usually includes judging based on their clothes. BTW, they don't understand either and will probably not, until they become part of the "older generation." Whatever that is.

 

[EyeMNathan]

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Originally posted by: EyeMNathan
dmcowen in a recent thread lumped me in with Republicans.

I'm not a Republican. In fact I'm rather cynical about U.S. politics and despise the political party system. It discourages individual thought and encourages people into a "sheep" mentality, where because their party mates are voting for or against something, they should too.

No, I don't have a better solution. But I am not happy with the choices I am given. Republicans, Democrats, or if I want to feel like a rebel I can vote for some radical third party on either side of the spectrum, like Pat Buchanan and his Fourth Reich Constitution party, or any number of the Moore-ite Ultra-Liberals.

Like most 20-somethings, I find my views dont fit with any political party, since unlike the older generation, my views are my own, and I was not expected to share the same views as anyone else.

I am against partial-birth abortion except in life-threatening situations, and believe abortion should be an option for all mothers until the third trimester. (Democratic leaning view.)

I am against strict gun control in the U.S. Once they can guarantee me that criminals won't have guns either, then I will give them my guns willingly. (Republican leaning view.)

I support the right of gays to get married. Marriage doesn't mean anything these days anyway, I don't feel it needs to be "protected". (Democratic leaning view.)

I support ending frivolous litigation. (Republican leaning view.)

I'll bet I'm 1:1 ratio on hotbutton issues in terms of what I believe, and I'll bet there isn't a single Senator who will vote for what I believe.

Why? Because they have sacrificed their beliefs to fit in with their political party cronies.

Discuss.

The topic summary starts with: "And why you shouldnt assume" and then you prove you do assume by saying "since unlike the older generation."

You sound like the children that say no one should be judged by anyone based on the clothes they wear and that they don't judge others. When asked what they think about "that person" the response usually includes judging based on their clothes. BTW, they don't understand either and will probably not, until they become part of the "older generation." Whatever that is.

Note that I said "Don't assume people are Democrats or Republicans."

I didn't say "Don't assume anything about anyone, ever."

Some assumptions are pretty safe to make.

And the latter half of your post is just pure garbage.

 

[PKing1977]

It still amazes me that the US still has a 2 party system.
You'd think that with all the moaning and complaining about both parties, some viable alternatives would have sprouted.

As an outsider it seems that there is only 1 thing that is preventing this from happening.

Money.

The US has more then just money standing in the way of a multiparty system. Unlike Europe, the US has a winner take all election approch. For example, Rep 35 Dem 45 Third 20 = Dem wins and that party has all the power. This type of system shuts out any third party from having any power at all. Ross Perot (Sp) had all the money in the world, but he could not get a third party going because of this issue. The US structure would have to change in a fundamental way before any third party would have a shot.

PKing

 

[Dissipate]

I am against strict gun control in the U.S. Once they can guarantee me that criminals won't have guns either, then I will give them my guns willingly.

How foolish can you get?! What are you going to do then when the government sends armed men to take your home and property for whatever reason they choose? You would do nothing is what you would do.

If you think taxes are bad now.... ha. Once they have all our guns there is no limit to what they can grab.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: EyeMNathan
dmcowen in a recent thread lumped me in with Republicans.

I'm not a Republican. In fact I'm rather cynical about U.S. politics and despise the political party system. It discourages individual thought and encourages people into a "sheep" mentality, where because their party mates are voting for or against something, they should too.

No, I don't have a better solution. But I am not happy with the choices I am given. Republicans, Democrats, or if I want to feel like a rebel I can vote for some radical third party on either side of the spectrum, like Pat Buchanan and his Fourth Reich Constitution party, or any number of the Moore-ite Ultra-Liberals.

Like most 20-somethings, I find my views dont fit with any political party, since unlike the older generation, my views are my own, and I was not expected to share the same views as anyone else.

I am against partial-birth abortion except in life-threatening situations, and believe abortion should be an option for all mothers until the third trimester. (Democratic leaning view.)

I am against strict gun control in the U.S. Once they can guarantee me that criminals won't have guns either, then I will give them my guns willingly. (Republican leaning view.)

I support the right of gays to get married. Marriage doesn't mean anything these days anyway, I don't feel it needs to be "protected". (Democratic leaning view.)

I support ending frivolous litigation. (Republican leaning view.)

I'll bet I'm 1:1 ratio on hotbutton issues in terms of what I believe, and I'll bet there isn't a single Senator who will vote for what I believe.

Why? Because they have sacrificed their beliefs to fit in with their political party cronies.

Discuss.

I'm almost exactly the same as yourself with my views. The only place I differ is with gun control laws. I'm more aligned with the Democrats on that.

I agree that the 2 party system sucks, but believe it or not the 2 party system allows politicians to vote their conscious alot more than the European systems which become far more politically charged than our own.

 

[EyeMNathan]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

I am against strict gun control in the U.S. Once they can guarantee me that criminals won't have guns either, then I will give them my guns willingly.

How foolish can you get?! What are you going to do then when the government sends armed men to take your home and property for whatever reason they choose? You would do nothing is what you would do.

If you think taxes are bad now.... ha. Once they have all our guns there is no limit to what they can grab.

I'd move to Canuckistan.