"Why I Prefer French Health Care" from Libertarian mag editor of Reason

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
The Corp-Govt oligarchy is getting pretty embarrassing when Editor in Chief of Reason is calling for universal health care.
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Why I Prefer French Health Care
The U.S. system’s deep flaws make socialism more tempting

Matt Welch from the January 2010 issue

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By now I’m accustomed to being the only person in any given room with my particular set of cockamamie politics. But even within the more familiar confines of the libertarian movement, I am an awkward outlier on the topic of the day (and the topic of this issue of reason): health care.

To put it plainly, when free marketers warn that Democratic health care initiatives will make us more “like France,” a big part of me says, “I wish.” It’s not that I think it’s either feasible or advisable for the United States to adopt a single-payer, government-dominated system. But it’s instructive to confront the comparative advantages of one socialist system abroad to sharpen the arguments for more capitalism at home.

For a dozen years now I’ve led a dual life, spending more than 90 percent of my time and money in the U.S. while receiving 90 percent of my health care in my wife’s native France. On a personal level the comparison is no contest: I’ll take the French experience any day. ObamaCare opponents often warn that a new system will lead to long waiting times, mountains of paperwork, and less choice among doctors. Yet on all three of those counts the French system is significantly better, not worse, than what the U.S. has now.

Need a prescription for muscle relaxers, an anti-fungal cream, or a steroid inhaler for temporary lung trouble? In the U.S. you have to fight to get on the appointment schedule of a doctor within your health insurance network (I’ll conservatively put the average wait time at five days), then have him or her scrawl something unintelligible on a slip of paper, which you take to a drugstore to exchange for your medicine. You might pay the doc $40, but then his office sends you a separate bill for the visit, and for an examination, and those bills also go to your insurance company, which sends you an adjustment sheet weeks after the doctor’s office has sent its third payment notice. By the time it’s all sorted out, you’ve probably paid a few hundred dollars to three different entities, without having a clue about how or why any of the prices were set.

In France, by contrast, you walk to the corner pharmacist, get either a prescription or over-the-counter medication right away, shell out a dozen or so euros, and you’re done. If you need a doctor, it’s not hard to get an appointment within a day or three, you make payments for everything (including X-rays) on the spot, and the amounts are routinely less than the co-payments for U.S. doctor visits. I’ve had back X-rays, detailed ear examinations, even minor oral surgery, and never have I paid more than maybe €300 for any one procedure.

And it’s not like the medical professionals in France are chopped liver. In the U.S., my wife had some lumps in her breast dismissed as harmless by a hurried, indifferent doctor at Kaiser Permanente. Eight months later, during our annual Christmas visit in Lyon, one of the best breast surgeons in the country detected that the lumps were growing and removed them.

We know that the horrific amount of third-party gobbledygook in America, the cost insensitivity, and the price randomness are all products of bad policies that market reforms could significantly improve. We know, too, that France’s low retail costs are subsidized by punitively high tax rates that will have to increase unless benefits are cut. If you are rich and sick (or a healthy doctor), you’re likely better off here. But as long as the U.S. remains this ungainly public-private hybrid, with ever-tighter mandates producing ever-fewer consumer choices, the average consumer’s health care experience will probably be more pleasing in France.

What’s more, none of these anecdotes scratches the surface of France’s chief advantage, and the main reason socialized medicine remains a perennial temptation in this country: In France, you are covered, period. It doesn’t depend on your job, it doesn’t depend on a health maintenance organization, and it doesn’t depend on whether you filled out the paperwork right. Those who (like me) oppose ObamaCare, need to understand (also like me, unfortunately) what it’s like to be serially rejected by insurance companies even though you’re perfectly healthy. It’s an enraging, anxiety-inducing, indelible experience, one that both softens the intellectual ground for increased government intervention and produces active resentment toward anyone who argues that the U.S. has “the best health care in the world.”

Since 1986 I’ve missed exactly three days of work due to illness. I don’t smoke, I don’t (usually) do drugs or drink to excess, and I eat a pretty healthy diet. I have some back pain now and then from a protruding disc, but nothing too serious. And from 1998 to 2001, when I was a freelancer in the world’s capital of freelancers (Los Angeles), I couldn’t get health insurance.

Kaiser rejected me because I had visited the doctor too many times in the 12 months preceding my application (I filled in the “3-5 times” circle, to reflect the three routine and inexpensive check-ups I’d had in France). Blue Cross rejected me too. There weren’t many other options. Months later, an insurance broker told me I’d ruined my chances by failing to file a written appeal. “You’re basically done in California,” he said. “A rejection is like an arrest—if you don’t contest it, you’re guilty, and it’s on your permanent record.”

It wasn’t as if I wanted or needed to consume much health care then. I was in my early 30s, and I wanted to make sure a catastrophic illness or injury wouldn’t bankrupt my family. When I finally found a freelance-journalist collective that allowed me and my wife to pay $212 a month to hedge against a car accident, it a) refused to cover pregnancies or childbirths at any price and b) hiked the monthly rate up to $357 after a year. One of the main attractions of moving from freelance status to a full-time job was the ability to affix a stable price on my health insurance.

This is the exact opposite of the direction in which we should be traveling in a global just-in-time economy, with its ideal of entrepreneurial workers breaking free of corporate command and zipping creatively from project to project. Don’t even get me started on the Kafkaesque ordeal of switching jobs without taking any time off, yet going uncovered by anything except COBRA for nearly two months even though both employers used the same health insurance provider. That incident alone cost me thousands of dollars I wouldn’t have paid if I had controlled my own insurance policy.

I’ve now reached the age where I will better appreciate the premium skill level of American doctors and their high-quality equipment and techniques. And in a very real way my family has voted with its feet when it comes to choosing between the two countries. One of France’s worst problems is the rigidity and expense that comes with an extensive welfare state.

But as you look at the health care solutions discussed in this issue, ask yourself an honest question: Are we better off today, in terms of health policy, than we would have been had we acknowledged more loudly 15 years ago that the status quo is quite awful for a large number of Americans? Would we have been better off focusing less on waiting times in Britain, and more on waiting times in the USA? It’s a question I plan to ask my doctor this Christmas. In French.

Matt Welch is reason's editor in chief.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
U.S. Government =/ French Government

French populace =/ American populace.
 

Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
18
81
Does he live in France? If not and he likes their system so much better than here the simple solution is for him to move there. Problem solved.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Does he live in France? If not and he likes their system so much better than here the simple solution is for him to move there. Problem solved.

How does his moving to Franve solve the problem for oher Americans?

Why should Americans have to leave if they like one thing about another nation better, instead of having America improve?

If you oppose UHC and we adopt it should we tell you move out if you want to push for change?
 
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rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
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I don't see him recommending the French system in the US anywhere in the article. I see him clearly stating that it's the current "public-private hybrid"-ness of the system that is screwing everything up. The rest of the article goes on to say how a market-based approach could remedy the ills of our present system, assuming that the government takes its nose out of the market's business. This is obvious from the very beginning of the article, where he states, "But it’s instructive to confront the comparative advantages of one socialist system abroad to sharpen the arguments for more capitalism at home."
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,424
296
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And all based on personal anecdotes which are not necessarily representative of the whole. I had a nightmare trying to see a doctor in Colorado when I was visiting there. The Greater Denver area is apparently all part of some HMO plan. I called about two dozen practices..."Not taking any new patients"..."need a referral"..."we can see you but it will be a month"..."no cash patients, you must belong to our HMO". I was just visiting from a different state and made sure to clarify this.

But I've lived in both Michigan and California and had absolutely no trouble getting in to see a doctor within a couple days, and I've had health issues for over 10 years now.

Never paid more than $40 for an office visit to a primary care physician, never more than $60 for an office visit to a specialist, except in Colorado where it cost me $150 to get seen at one of those walk-in clinics, which was the only place I could find to see me. The $150 was a mandatory minimum charge for first-time patients. Thereafter, a standard office/doctor visit was $75.00. I about fell over, never heard of such a thing.

Clearly, some regions/communities are doing things a helluva lot better than others. I don't know what the f-ck is going on in the Denver area but something is FUBAR in that local market.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
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Perhaps the author naively believes that real capitalist medicine would be superior to the French system.

He's confused in his argument. On the one hand he praises how the socialist system is pretty great and better than ur mixed syste but he claims for no reason we should not emulate France and do the opposite.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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France becoming more and more "conservative" as of late; the unions are screaming bloody murder but it seems the population has become versed in macroeconomic theory: Protectionism doesn't work.

Good for them I say.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
How does his moving to Franve solve the problem for oher Americans?

Why should Americans have to leave if they like one thing about another nation better, instead of having America improve?

If you oppose UHC and we adopt it should we tell you move out if you want to push for change?


You don't note how he gets this. He pays US taxes and fees and gets French health care for free.

He votes with he feet by moving in two directions at once it seems.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,434
491
126
The problem here is the people who dont have healthcare couldnt come up with 300 euros (450 dollars) just like that for a doctor visit / xrays / etc...
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,434
491
126
Oh...and I can get a doctor the same day usually...not some super long wait.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
He's confused in his argument. On the one hand he praises how the socialist system is pretty great and better than ur mixed syste but he claims for no reason we should not emulate France and do the opposite.
He said the pure socialist system is better than the mess we have now, not that it's perfect. He indicates that the problems which have arisen in our system were caused by the government. The irony in the proposal that only the government can fix its own mess is only lost on those who have a predisposition to agree with this sentiment.
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
318
126
Haha a pure capitalist health care system would cover folks between the age of 14 and 25 and thats about it.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
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The argument is for efficiency and accessibility. There are a wide variety of combinations of government and private than can function well and provide required services at reasonable cost.

The issue is that we already have overbearing and highly inefficient government involvement in the delivery of services and in the payment/reimbursement processes. And that is going to get a lot more onerous under any of the plans under consideration by the Congress. We have so rigged the current system that private services need to play games to garner a reasonable profit. What is being proposed is much, much, much worse.

We really need to start with a clean slate and that is something the entrenched interests aren't going to allow. Certainly not if they are trying to get a law on the books right away before they are voted out of office in 2010 for doing just that. Think more in the line of another full year to craft something that makes sense and gets the buy in of all parties. In an election year? Just won't happen.

Please don't waste time shooting off a response that the gross dollars of profit the health care providers generate are excessive. The percentage of revenue that is profit is not that large and the enterprises are almost always very large, so gross dollars as an argument is specious.

I have been using French health services for about 20 years. (Former in-laws are French docs. Marry well and stay friendly! hehehe.) I agree with the article author that it is very convenient to secure very good care at relatively reasonable cost, even with the slide of the dollar against the euro.

The French system is one that I keep referring back to as a model myself, but it also one that we are unlikely to adopt for a number of reasons. Half the doctors in France are civil service employees, for example, and are paid at 1/3 of the rate that US doctors are. Of course the government pays for their medical schooling and they don't need to pay $60 - 100K a year for medical malpractice insurance there either. Tort reform anyone?

There has been ongoing concern about the deficit of the Sécurité Sociale that is used to pay the government portion of the bill. A 40% personal income tax pays for this and other safety nets and still doesn't cover the actual cost.

Government now needs to contribute around 40% of the total costs to make up the cost differential and this amount is substantially deficit spending. It was only 7% in 1990 around the time when I first registered.

All of this spending doesn't fully fund basic health care, and almost everyone carries private Medigap insurance for the 30% +/- not paid by the primary insurance. As the pricing is generally standardized you don't get into much of a reimbursement issue with the private insurances.

Anyway, I've got to catch a flight, unfortunately not to Nice. (Nor to Thailand as Red Dawn has recently been encouraging me. ;-) )

Some bit of reading for your pleasure -

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/9994.php
 
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CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
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Haha a pure capitalist health care system would cover folks between the age of 14 and 25 and thats about it.
Why would that be the case? If I am a 30-year-old and I'm willing to pay enough, someone would sell me insurance. If I'm a smart 30-year-old and only want insurance to protect against major expenses, then someone will sell me a policy for even less. The unfortunate side effect of such a system is that it would force people to accept the ugly truth: that healthcare is a finite resource which must be divided up among those with infinite need. This truth is true regardless of the system in place. No system will allow you to live forever with excellent quality of life, period. Until we understand that, this debate is useless.
 

zmatt

Member
Nov 5, 2009
152
0
0
I don't see him recommending the French system in the US anywhere in the article. I see him clearly stating that it's the current "public-private hybrid"-ness of the system that is screwing everything up. The rest of the article goes on to say how a market-based approach could remedy the ills of our present system, assuming that the government takes its nose out of the market's business. This is obvious from the very beginning of the article, where he states, "But it’s instructive to confront the comparative advantages of one socialist system abroad to sharpen the arguments for more capitalism at home."

Agreed, his point is anything is better than what we have, and that includes the french system. I would be inclined to agree with him. At least things would make sense then. In our hybrid system it's hard to get anything done. The market is too regulated for the private companies to do much, and that regulation made only a few large insurance companies that have a monopoly on the system.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
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He said the pure socialist system is better than the mess we have now, not that it's perfect. He indicates that the problems which have arisen in our system were caused by the government. The irony in the proposal that only the government can fix its own mess is only lost on those who have a predisposition to agree with this sentiment.

Your post is nearly as confused as his article. Where's the logic in why he's very happy - not perfectly - with a 'socialist' system if government is the ptroblem?

Where is any explanation byhim of why Medicare has such high satisfaction and lower overhead if goverrnment is problematic?

I think you are the one showing a dispotion-derived posdition.
 

daishi5

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2005
1,196
0
76
He's confused in his argument. On the one hand he praises how the socialist system is pretty great and better than ur mixed syste but he claims for no reason we should not emulate France and do the opposite.

He is not confused in his argument, he is presenting the argument as a two choice decision, in which he does not want either choice, but he recognizes one as better than the other. He believes that frances system is better than our current, but he believes there is an even better way in a more free-market type approach, one that is not tied to employers or government. Second, he is not making the argument for his free market health care, he is merely making the argument that since we seem to be faced with only two choices, we would be better off with the france system then the one we have now.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Your post is nearly as confused as his article. Where's the logic in why he's very happy - not perfectly - with a 'socialist' system if government is the ptroblem?
Just because it's better than our current mess hardly makes it the best system. "Happy" is a relative term. If I have the option of stepping off the curb and getting hit by a bus or a VW Beetle, guess which one I'll choose? That's his point: in the false dilemma that the Dems are trumpeting (i.e. the current system or the mess that they're proposing), the mess that they are proposing might indeed be better. However, that does not mean that their mess is good, let alone the best solution. The better solution is to install a pedestrian bridge over the road so I don't have to play in traffic at all.
Where is any explanation byhim of why Medicare has such high satisfaction and lower overhead if goverrnment is problematic?

I think you are the one showing a dispotion-derived posdition.
Medicare has high satisfaction with patients and low overhead. However, this won't last because it is achieved through pure shenanigans. Medicare keeps costs down by not paying doctors and price fixing. Patients are happy because they can skip appointments at no cost to themselves and pay nothing for their treatment. For better or for worse, the doctor also has to get his or he's going to quit and the whole scam will come to a screeching halt.
 

Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
3,189
0
76
Just because it's better than our current mess hardly makes it the best system. "Happy" is a relative term. If I have the option of stepping off the curb and getting hit by a bus or a VW Beetle, guess which one I'll choose? That's his point: in the false dilemma that the Dems are trumpeting (i.e. the current system or the mess that they're proposing), the mess that they are proposing might indeed be better. However, that does not mean that their mess is good, let alone the best solution. The better solution is to install a pedestrian bridge over the road so I don't have to play in traffic at all.

Medicare has high satisfaction with patients and low overhead. However, this won't last because it is achieved through pure shenanigans. Medicare keeps costs down by not paying doctors and price fixing. Patients are happy because they can skip appointments at no cost to themselves and pay nothing for their treatment. For better or for worse, the doctor also has to get his or he's going to quit and the whole scam will come to a screeching halt.

And yet in 40 years this hasn't happened, so where is the evidence supporting your position?
 
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