Why I'm Supporting Hillary Clinton For President 2008

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Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,923
0
0
Originally posted by: BoberFett
LMFAO, and people like Compuwiz call Paul supporters nuts? This thread is about as crazy as they come.

Let's abolish all taxes! Nothing bad will happen, or my name isn't Ron Paul!
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
A vote for Hillary is a vote for partisanship and political division.

a vote for ANY democrat is a vote for partisanship and political division. there is no universally liked candidate. the clintons are hated culturally by the right, but in actual policy they are moderate and quiet deals can be made under that hate. obama and co are even farther to the left, and right now they are shielded from public hate because of the race issue. the reality is that they are even more divisive than the clintons. a red congress will ensue and the sh*tstorm will engulf the capital rendering all obamas claims of change moot. its funny how people imagine that republicans would rather have a president even further to the left. its the fairy tale aspect of the obama campaign. sure it'll be bad with clinton, but pretending obama wouldn't be worse is just naive to a degree that is frightening.

 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: dennilfloss
:thumbsup:

Hillary becoming president for a couple of terms is the best thing that could happen to you guys.:gift:

Actually, it's one of the worst things that could happen to us.

The fact that all these Socialists from Europe and Canada love Hilary so much isn't exactly helping her cause.

If I wanted to live in a welfare state, I'd move to one!
 

maziwanka

Lifer
Jul 4, 2000
10,419
1
0
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: BoberFett
LMFAO, and people like Compuwiz call Paul supporters nuts? This thread is about as crazy as they come.

Let's abolish all taxes! Nothing bad will happen, or my name isn't Ron Paul!

idiot. because that's paul's stance
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Hillary doesn't have a magic wand to "fix" the economy, neither did she have Paul Volker to make the calls to set up the US economy for a run as it had under Clinton.

What this race needs is a Ross Perot reminding people that "The economy is like your crazy aunt chained up in the basement, everyone knows she's down there, but no one talks about her."
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
In the spirit of the OP, Im curious what people think Bill actually DID to create the economy? Without the help of congress. Without the help of the Fed. Himself.

Just curious.
 

HendrixFan

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2001
4,648
0
71
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
If you want to give Clinton credit then give him credit for being smart enough to look at the Republican victory in 94 and change his direction (give some credit to Dick Morris who helped him come up with triangulation.)

Prior to the Republican take over Clinton proposed nearly one trillion in deficit spending over the five year period between 1996 and 2000. After their take over he proposed a budget that would end up being balanced around 2000.

The reason the budget was balanced prior to 2000 was due to good economic growth and drastic cuts in the defense budget.

When Clinton took office in 93, the previous twelve years of trickle down economics had run large deficits both during economic boom and bust periods. In 93 the annual interest payments on the national debt were the third largest items after defense and social security. Between the large budget deficit and the trade deficit, in order to finance spending and attract that kind of capital without loss in value of the dollar, interest rates had to be high. Those high interest rates worked out to be an indirect tax on people with mortgages, car payments and credit card debt.

His plan was to work the deficit down, which would create new jobs by bringing down interest rates since the government wouldn't be competing with the private sector for borrowing money. The target was to cut the deficit in half in four years. The fear was that the cuts, though good long term, would cause a short term slowdown, so he tied in a small short term targeted spending package along with business tax cuts.

By the time the Republican Congress took over in early 95, Clinton's budget was to balance the budget in ten years. The Republicans proposed to do it in seven years, with large spending cuts in education, health care and environment. Clinton did not want to plan to balance it faster because the contractionary impact, if too large, could risk slowing economic growth. In November the government shut down because both sides, though agreeing on a long term balanced budget outlook, disagreed on where the cuts would come from to pay for that balanced budget. At the time a USA Today/CNN poll suggested Americans by wide margins have soured on the Republican agenda, with 60 percent saying he [Clinton] should veto the budget bill and 33 percent saying he should sign it. Despite the public support the Republicans held strong and kept it a stalemate.

By Clinton's re-election in 96 the budget fight lasted all of 95, caused a shutdown by the end of that year, and for nearly six months dragged on through the first half of 96. It would be misleading to say that the stalemate was responsible for the economy, certainly not for the entire four years he had been in office. During that time, there were 11 million new jobs and the lowest combined unemployment and inflation in 28 years. If you want to say those things happened just because Clinton sat there, go ahead. But it would be impossible to declare that those things happened because of the Republicans. Their first year and a half as the controlling Congress resulted in a stalemate and did not get their economic policies pushed through.

As growth continued to increase, Clinton introduced in 97 a balanced budget within five years. The economic growth took unemployment under 5 percent, boosting payrolls, profits and most importantly, tax revenues. Because the growth was so staggering over the previous four years, the deficit had shrunk from $300 billion plus to a little over $70 billion in five years. Far better than Clinton had planned.

You act as if the significant economic expansion and balanced budgets happened during Republican control of the budget. The majority was already done by the time the Republicans got their first budget passed, and that budget was a compromise since the American people (maybe out of sheer chance) sided with Clinton during the shutdown.

I will give the Republicans alot of credit for the welfare reform passed in 97, it was bipartisan with 70 percent support in both houses. During Clinton's presidency, welfare rolls dropped from 14.1 million to 5.8 million.


 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I don't like Hill and I don't like Bill, but there is no denying that the best, most recent years in our economy were under the Bill Clinton administration.

That said, I believe this is really a 3rd term for Bill, IF Hillary gets elected, BUT, there really are not any good options on the table, are there?

I mean, Ron Who is a joke. McCain will never make it. Romney is a Mormon and on that premise alone will not get elected. Huckabye baby is too irrelevant and Obama is a good candidate, but he's still black, and that is going to be an issue at the polls, sadly to say.

So, what "real" choices do we really have?

I believe, as much as I dislike the Clinton clan, that Hill will be our next President.

Picking Hillary over Obama?
Were you drunk when you made this post?
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I don't like Hill and I don't like Bill, but there is no denying that the best, most recent years in our economy were under the Bill Clinton administration.

That said, I believe this is really a 3rd term for Bill, IF Hillary gets elected, BUT, there really are not any good options on the table, are there?

I mean, Ron Who is a joke. McCain will never make it. Romney is a Mormon and on that premise alone will not get elected. Huckabye baby is too irrelevant and Obama is a good candidate, but he's still black, and that is going to be an issue at the polls, sadly to say.

So, what "real" choices do we really have?

I believe, as much as I dislike the Clinton clan, that Hill will be our next President.

Picking Hillary over Obama?
Were you drunk when you made this post?

i dunno why so many liberals are so quick to be down on clinton. i guess that goes with not having much of a spine.

do the fud spreading of the republicans for free its amusing and sad.

the fact is this. you can say all you want about clinton being hated. but clinton got elected twice despite the hate. remember that.
now clinton has won the lynchpin state of florida.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,432
7,355
136
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

i dunno why so many liberals are so quick to be down on clinton. i guess that goes with not having much of a spine.

do the fud spreading of the republicans for free its amusing and sad.

the fact is this. you can say all you want about clinton being hated. but clinton got elected twice despite the hate. remember that.
now clinton has won the lynchpin state of florida.

Bill may have won twice, that doesn't mean we (in the royal sense) would want Hillary. The Presidency shouldn't be about forming political dynasty's. In addition, the majority of us "Clinton haters" are tired of the partisan politics that she seems willing to perpetuate.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
LOL @ "Clinton Economy". What exactly is that? An economy of economic bubbles. A market with any stock with ".com" in it having a P/E of 100+? A market where businesses with no substantial value grows millionaire CEOs just before the stock crashes into nothingness?

Don't get me wrong, "Bush Economy" sucks too, but I don't see the relevance to the Presidential office, aside from Bush's inability to veto all of these liberal bills.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I don't like Hill and I don't like Bill, but there is no denying that the best, most recent years in our economy were under the Bill Clinton administration.

That said, I believe this is really a 3rd term for Bill, IF Hillary gets elected, BUT, there really are not any good options on the table, are there?

I mean, Ron Who is a joke. McCain will never make it. Romney is a Mormon and on that premise alone will not get elected. Huckabye baby is too irrelevant and Obama is a good candidate, but he's still black, and that is going to be an issue at the polls, sadly to say.

So, what "real" choices do we really have?

I believe, as much as I dislike the Clinton clan, that Hill will be our next President.

Picking Hillary over Obama?
Were you drunk when you made this post?

lol, wtf.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
If you think Hillary can bring back the late 90's economy you really need to take an economics class.

No, you are the one who need to take some economics class to see how fiscal policies from the White house can affect the economy. While you are at it, read Greenspan's Age of Turbulence and see how Clinton is the one that worked most closely with him to get the economy going.

What the fuck are you talking about?

The 90s economy was about the huge bubble in growth stocks, specifically tech/internet stocks.

It was artificial. It was yet another period in the 20th century where some idiots thought that technology somehow changed the fundamental theories of economics and allowed obscene prices on stocks for almost non-existent earnings or prospects of actual earnings.

It was a feel good era where people talked at parties about how they became rich by investing in these stocks. Many people put their savings into these stocks and lost 80+% of it. To put it in perspective, it takes 500% gains to make up for an 80% lost...

Alan Greenspan lost it in his last years and thought he could control the market better than it could control itself. He added fuel to the Housing bubble with the ridiculous interest rate reductions in 2000-3 in an effort to repair the damage of the tech stock bubble.

Really, when you think about it, the current bear market is a lingering result of the fucking tech stock crash of the artificial 90s.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,133
220
106
Well...

A) Ragen like bush was an idiot. Ragen wanted a service economy how would that help anyone is beyond me....

B) The stock market didn't crash.... People were betting on the tech market.... That is what crashed.... You inflate anything too high and it's bound to crash....

C) Allen Greenspan a repug thinks Clinton was the sharpest tool in the shed. Bill did do great things to this economy while in service.

D) All the bush supporters... What your loaded and drunk when you went to the polls ?????? Damn, and you voted for him twice? ouch!

Bush is doing a fine job, I told everyone he'd run the country into the ground before he is done. He still has a bit left to go and so far is doing a FINE job at doing it. I bet by this summer or fall the housing market everywhere will be tanked and we will be in the biggest recession this country has ever seen ... mean while as the bushies have their turkey dinners and sleeping in luxury ... Bush will still be needing almost another 2-3 billion to fight the terror!

Sad...Sad...
 

randym431

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2003
1,270
1
0
What does not make the connect with Obama... is his talk.

He wants to "unite". And have a "one" for all America. Sounds great!!!

Well, a great Disney fairy tale movie theme, maybe, but in reality in this "united"
America, who is it that is going to give up their beliefs?

Healthcare for example... We have either a gov healthcare system or the current private/employer system. Which side is it giving in???

So in Obama's America, who is it that is going to go thru this "change""????

Will the Republican's give in on Gay rights? National healthcare? The war???

Obama talks a great speech, but tell me here... please...
who is it that is going to change their minds and beliefs and convictions???
Them or us??? You or me??? Reagan republicans or Obama liberals???
I really want to know... You tell me Barack.

When you think of it i.e. history, Obama will be another Jimmy Carter.
A real nice man, that could not get anything done as promised.

JFK was not a liberal, not that liberal. It was LBJ that made civil rights a reality of law.
If Obama wants to do what he says, he's has to run as an LBJ, not JFK.
Think about it...
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: compuwiz1

Evan, please read above. Any other thoughts?

Well, IMHO, I think that a vote for HRC (and by association Bill) is a vote for polarization of the Republicans and general division within the Dems, as Obama now has significant traction within the party. Even if she were more honest with voters on the issues and had more sensible policy stances, I still think her history by itself is more harmful than anything else she brings to the table. In other words, I question how effective a leader she can be given those negatives, even if she might be a capable leader, her history is back-breaking to the legislative compromise that must take place to move this country forward.

I also, of course, disagree that Bill had much to do with the roaring 90's economy. If I had to put a percentage on it, I'd say at best 1-2% impact. Now that can be a lot depending on the context of the economy, but GDP was routinely growing at 7-9% during much of the 90's, so it wouldn't have been statistically significant. And even then, I'm probably over-stating his real impact, which I've yet to see an econometric study on.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Bill had nothing to do with the roaring 90's economy.
In fact the economy was on auto pilot...thus enabling Bill to concentrate on his marital infidelity!!
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Originally posted by: Legend
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
If you think Hillary can bring back the late 90's economy you really need to take an economics class.

No, you are the one who need to take some economics class to see how fiscal policies from the White house can affect the economy. While you are at it, read Greenspan's Age of Turbulence and see how Clinton is the one that worked most closely with him to get the economy going.

What the fuck are you talking about?

The 90s economy was about the huge bubble in growth stocks, specifically tech/internet stocks.

It was artificial. It was yet another period in the 20th century where some idiots thought that technology somehow changed the fundamental theories of economics and allowed obscene prices on stocks for almost non-existent earnings or prospects of actual earnings.

It was a feel good era where people talked at parties about how they became rich by investing in these stocks. Many people put their savings into these stocks and lost 80+% of it. To put it in perspective, it takes 500% gains to make up for an 80% lost...

Alan Greenspan lost it in his last years and thought he could control the market better than it could control itself. He added fuel to the Housing bubble with the ridiculous interest rate reductions in 2000-3 in an effort to repair the damage of the tech stock bubble.

Really, when you think about it, the current bear market is a lingering result of the fucking tech stock crash of the artificial 90s.
QFMFT! :thumbsup:

 

Coldkilla

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2004
3,944
0
71
Since most people have not gotten to know Barack over the country, they will most likely vote for the estasblished name... That being Hill. Funny thing is, where Barack and Hill campaign for months and allow the voters to get to know them both, they go Barack, this premise says she'll win super tuesday, sadly....

Barack still needs a high cabinet position.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I don't like Hill and I don't like Bill, but there is no denying that the best, most recent years in our economy were under the Bill Clinton administration.

That said, I believe this is really a 3rd term for Bill, IF Hillary gets elected, BUT, there really are not any good options on the table, are there?

Never happen. Bill's economic forces have been destroyed by the Republicans.

There is no turning back the power Corporations have over the country now.

The death knell can only be slowed but not stopped.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I don't like Hill and I don't like Bill, but there is no denying that the best, most recent years in our economy were under the Bill Clinton administration.

That said, I believe this is really a 3rd term for Bill, IF Hillary gets elected, BUT, there really are not any good options on the table, are there?

Never happen. Bill's economic forces have been destroyed by the Republicans.

There is no turning back the power Corporations have over the country now.

The death knell can only be slowed but not stopped.

A liquidity bubble based on overinflated corporate stock prices was an anti-corporatist economic force?
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

i dunno why so many liberals are so quick to be down on clinton. i guess that goes with not having much of a spine.

do the fud spreading of the republicans for free its amusing and sad.

the fact is this. you can say all you want about clinton being hated. but clinton got elected twice despite the hate. remember that.
now clinton has won the lynchpin state of florida.

Bill may have won twice, that doesn't mean we (in the royal sense) would want Hillary. The Presidency shouldn't be about forming political dynasty's. In addition, the majority of us "Clinton haters" are tired of the partisan politics that she seems willing to perpetuate.

i'm sorry, a bumpkin and his wife who happened to become successful are hardly a dynasty.
they didnt come from politically powerful families. don't even pretend they did.
 
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