Why is breastfeeding frowned upon?

[Texashiker]

You obviously didn't read the article if you are saying that 15% is the ideal rate. The whole point of the article was that 15% is a number pulled out of someone's ass with ZERO evidence to support it.

So you and the article you linked to is saying, the World Health Organization just pulls numbers out of its ass and makes stuff up?

That is laughable.

Go look at the google chart I linked to. Infant mortality rates had been on the decrease for 30+ years, and without a large increase in c-sections.

It was not until c-section rates started to rise that infant mortality rates leveled off.

 

[manimal]

everyone knows that breastfeeding is bad because small businesses are harmed if you dont buy overpriced formula...

 

[Codewiz]

So you and the article you linked to is saying, the World Health Organization just pulls numbers out of its ass and makes stuff up?

That is laughable.

Go look at the google chart I linked to. Infant mortality rates had been on the decrease for 30+ years, and without a large increase in c-sections.

It was not until c-section rates started to rise that infant mortality rates leveled off.

Once again, there is no basis for the 15% number. None, nada, zip.....you just want to ignore it.

Are you going to argue there is causation between c-section rates and the leveling off of mortality rates in the US? I really think you should look at causation versus correlation......

It is simple as this, no first world country has less than 15% that keeps accurate records while maintaing acceptable mortality rates. None.

Fact is you are making an argument with nothing to back it up. It isn't my job to disprove you. That isn't how it works. My point is that the numbers support between 22% and 36% c-section rate with low mortality rates for mothers and child.

Anything outside of that isn't supported by science. Simple as that. Heck, I would love to eliminate the need for c-sections but until there is a better way while keeping deaths and damage to a minimum, I will support what the science of the situation is telling us.

 

[Redfraggle]

Let me spell this out for you.

What is the goal of child birth? I hope you can agree that the end goal is a healthy child and healthy mother.

-Home births have a rough chance between 9% - 35% of ending up at the hospital.
-Very little monitoring for home births(see the above stat)
-Home births are twice as likely to result in neonatal death.

That last number is a pretty clear indication it violates the goal of birth.

I love how you turn it into an emotion plea with this 10 people putting their hands on you. There were THREE people that touched my wife during her labor. Our midwife(also a RN), the anesthesiologist, and her actual OBGYN who performed the c-section.

Oh did you know that many OBGYNs use midwives. OMG, amazing.

So yeah, your post represents to me that you are a zealot with very little actual factual information backing up their claim. You prefer emotional BS in place of real facts.

You really do like making things up. I can see discussion with you will not happen. You whine that somebody calls you names, but you continuously do that same thing, and you fail to present real evidence as well.

Well, enjoy being ignorant.

 

[Powermoloch]

breast feeding is normal as breathing and it shouldn't be frowned upon. On the plus side, breast feeding has a ton of benefits :thumbsup:

 

[Codewiz]

You really do like making things up. I can see discussion with you will not happen. You whine that somebody calls you names, but you continuously do that same thing, and you fail to present real evidence as well.

Well, enjoy being ignorant.

What did I make up? Quote me. You seem to know how to do that. You have brought zero to the discussion. Zero.

At least Texas and I are having a civil discussion while trying to present our view. Yeah, you.......not so much because you bring nothing to the table.

As for the name calling, I never called you a nutjob. Just home birthers. Didn't know you were one at the time. As far as zealot, yeah I called you that after you decided that name calling was acceptable in our dialog. And yes, you are obviously a zealot. You hate when facts get in the way of your dogma. You aren't any different than creationists.

 

[Redfraggle]

All good points except the bolded part. Exactly how does your tit know to change the content type of the milk because baby lips are there? I haven't heard, read, or been informed of any such psychic interaction that happens like this. From what I know, content type of the milk depends solely upon what the mother is ingesting. Flow rate may change, but not content type that I'm aware of.

I looked for the article I wanted, but I can't find it. I'll look some more later.

However, even without it, if you read www.kellymom.com you'll be able to find out that the frequency and intensity of nursing affects the amounts of foremilk and hindmilk.

Until I can find the article I'm thinking of, I'll concede that I may misremember the bit about various nutrients changing as well.

Here's this from wisegeek also.

 

[HumblePie]

I looked for the article I wanted, but I can't find it. I'll look some more later.

However, even without it, if you read www.kellymom.com you'll be able to find out that the frequency and intensity of nursing affects the amounts of foremilk and hindmilk.

Until I can find the article I'm thinking of, I'll concede that I may misremember the bit about various nutrients changing as well.

That has to do with your body expecting feeding times. Not the content of the milk. The minerals, vitamins, and fat content are all related to what the mother ingests. It has nothing to do with the feeding cycle. Just pointing out the small error in that post. Shouldn't get upset over it.

 

[Codewiz]

I looked for the article I wanted, but I can't find it. I'll look some more later.

However, even without it, if you read www.kellymom.com you'll be able to find out that the frequency and intensity of nursing affects the amounts of foremilk and hindmilk.

Until I can find the article I'm thinking of, I'll concede that I may misremember the bit about various nutrients changing as well.

The bigger issue with pumping has nothing to do with affecting the changing amounts of foremilk and hindmilk produced.

The bigger issue is that when pumping, a mother is going to end up with bottles at the beginning that are most likely only foremilk. So when you give that bottle to the baby, the baby is only getting foremilk.

The same happens with the hindmilk. So the risk you run is in any given day, you could end up only feeding your child foremilk.

Once again, it is all about specific situations. Our son drank 30-40 ounces of breastmilk by 5 months. He was giant. He went through my wife's whole supply every day. So his milk was typically at most a day old and he was getting both types.

However, it could be an issue for a baby who is eating 15oz a day and the mother is pumping while stocking up on it.

I would still say that breastmilk is going to be superior to formula for a mother who eats healthy. Just the anti-bodies are worth it.

 

[Electric Amish]

I assume I was breast-fed.

I wholeheartedly approve of and encourage breast-feeding.

 

[Redfraggle]

What did I make up? Quote me. You seem to know how to do that. You have brought zero to the discussion. Zero.

At least Texas and I are having a civil discussion while trying to present our view. Yeah, you.......not so much because you bring nothing to the table.

As for the name calling, I never called you a nutjob. Just home birthers. Didn't know you were one at the time. As far as zealot, yeah I called you that after you decided that name calling was acceptable in our dialog. And yes, you are obviously a zealot. You hate when facts get in the way of your dogma. You aren't any different than creationists.

Here's a great example of why I don't continue to try and have productive conversation nor debate with you. You have no skills in it.

I did call you ignorant, yes. Ignorant is a state in which one lacks knowledge. You obviously do.

Also:

zealot |ˈzelət|
noun
a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.

There's your ignorance again. I'm not a zealot at all. Outspoken, yes. Zealot, no.

 

[Codewiz]

I assume I was breast-fed.

I wholeheartedly approve of and encourage breast-feeding.

Why don't you accept PMs? I tried to get your attention in a thread about jobs.

 

[Redfraggle]

That has to do with your body expecting feeding times. Not the content of the milk. The minerals, vitamins, and fat content are all related to what the mother ingests. It has nothing to do with the feeding cycle. Just pointing out the small error in that post. Shouldn't get upset over it.

I'm not upset.

You are actually wrong though: http://kellymom.com/nutrition/mom/mom-diet.html

"Do I need to maintain a perfect diet while breastfeeding?

The short answer to this question is NO – you do not need to maintain a perfect diet in order to provide quality milk for your baby. In fact, research tells us that the quality of a mother’s diet has little influence on her milk. Nature is very forgiving – mother’s milk is designed to provide for and protect baby even in times of hardship and famine. A poor diet is more likely to affect the mother than her breastfed baby."




I was really surprised when I learned that. Certainly diet has an affect, but it's not as big a deal as some people think.

 

[Codewiz]

Here's a great example of why I don't continue to try and have productive conversation nor debate with you. You have no skills in it.

I did call you ignorant, yes. Ignorant is a state in which one lacks knowledge. You obviously do.

Also:

zealot |ˈzelət|
noun
a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.

There's your ignorance again. I'm not a zealot at all. Outspoken, yes. Zealot, no.

See you would rather discuss the word zealot and call me ignorant rather than discuss the topic at hand.

You are the one that said I made up stuff when you can clearly see I stated the statistics WITH links.

You would rather just say I make things up and call me ignorant. Hope that fulfills your life.

 

[BornStar]

Oh did you know that many OBGYNs use midwives. OMG, amazing.

I'd like to address this point. My wife is an OB/GYN and wanted to use a midwife for the delivery process because she didn't want her coworkers having as much intimate knowledge of her as would be required by having an OB/GYN taking care of it. Ultimately she had too many problems that prevented a midwife but the reason for wanting a midwife was social, not medical in nature. I can't speak for the other OB/GYNs out there but I have to imagine that's a large part of it.

 

[HumblePie]

I'm not upset.

You are actually wrong though: http://kellymom.com/nutrition/mom/mom-diet.html

"Do I need to maintain a perfect diet while breastfeeding?

The short answer to this question is NO – you do not need to maintain a perfect diet in order to provide quality milk for your baby. In fact, research tells us that the quality of a mother’s diet has little influence on her milk. Nature is very forgiving – mother’s milk is designed to provide for and protect baby even in times of hardship and famine. A poor diet is more likely to affect the mother than her breastfed baby."

I was really surprised when I learned that. Certainly diet has an affect, but it's not as big a deal as some people think.

Uhh.. how am I wrong. I stated that what she ingest affects the milk and nothing else. That just said I was right. I never said HOW is affected the milk now did I? I was specifically referring to when mothers start starving themselves basically that it affects the milk. Sometimes over ingestion of some food items can also make a difference. For example eating a banana will cause the amount of potassium to increase a lot in breast milk as well as give it a fruitier taste.

Actually, I also have a few links backing up that it affects it more than you know. Specifically with taste.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/116228.php

And here is a study that found a relationship between levels of vitamin A and E in breast milk between maternity diet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11786649

And yet another study showing an increase in lipid and fats.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_6245.cfm


The changes are not always significant, because those contents will be there as the mother will start to consume her own body to produce nutritious enough milk. But eating right and what you eat can change the content of the milk itself. How the baby sucks at the teet or when it sucks does not make a difference.

I think that beats the one blog reference you put up.

 

[moshquerade]

It's only frowned upon by those with unhealthy hang ups and unresolved sexual issues.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

It's only frowned upon by those with unhealthy hang ups and unresolved sexual issues.

I already said Puritanism.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I suppose it's because bare boobies make us feel sinful.

 

[moshquerade]

I already said Puritanism.

So, we agreed, and I didn't read the 143 posts :ninja:

 

[hanoverphist]

im totally for it. all 3 of my kids breastfed for the first 8 months at least. i think extending that to 5 or 7 years old is a bit extreme tho. its also the only way i got to see my ex SiL titties.

 

[Codewiz]

I'd like to address this point. My wife is an OB/GYN and wanted to use a midwife for the delivery process because she didn't want her coworkers having as much intimate knowledge of her as would be required by having an OB/GYN taking care of it. Ultimately she had too many problems that prevented a midwife but the reason for wanting a midwife was social, not medical in nature. I can't speak for the other OB/GYNs out there but I have to imagine that's a large part of it.

I see now that I was not clear in the least.

I was trying to point out that many OBGYN practices staff midwives. My wife's OBGYN practice has midwives on staff that are also their RNs.

Being an RN and a midwife isn't mutually exclusive. That was my only point. For some reason there is a bizarre movement that acts like midwives can't be found in hospitals. Or that midwives aren't part of the medical community.

I live in South freakin Carolina so I know that if I was able to find an OBGYN office that keeps only midwives as their nurses then I am sure bigger cities do the same. We would never see the actual OBGYN until there are problems. And that is when we saw her and ended up with a c-section.

 

[Redfraggle]

Uhh.. how am I wrong. I stated that what she ingest affects the milk and nothing else. That just said I was right. I never said HOW is affected the milk now did I? I was specifically referring to when mothers start starving themselves basically that it affects the milk. Sometimes over ingestion of some food items can also make a difference. For example eating a banana will cause the amount of potassium to increase a lot in breast milk as well as give it a fruitier taste.

Actually, I also have a few links backing up that it affects it more than you know. Specifically with taste.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/116228.php

And here is a study that found a relationship between levels of vitamin A and E in breast milk between maternity diet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11786649

And yet another study showing an increase in lipid and fats.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_6245.cfm


The changes are not always significant, because those contents will be there as the mother will start to consume her own body to produce nutritious enough milk. But eating right and what you eat can change the content of the milk itself. How the baby sucks at the teet or when it sucks does not make a difference.

I think that beats the one blog reference you put up.

The website I put up isn't a blog. It's a respected resource based in scientific studies.

Anyway, perhaps I misunderstood you previously? *shrug* My point was that you can eat whatever, and still make nutritious milk.

What the mother takes in definitely affects the taste. So, it's not that it's "more than I know" just more than I said. Babies will sometimes refuse to nurse for a bit if there was something eaten that gives a unpleasant flavor. Some babies hate it when mom eats garlic. Others don't care.

How the child sucks does affect what the child gets out though. As I said, I can't find the article I wanted right now, so I concede that I can't prove that infant saliva sends any particular signals. However, the intensity of the sucking is absolutely related to what the child gets. Foremilk is watery and comes first. If there is just some lazy sucking involved, that's all the child will get. The body will then make less milk, because less demand is made. If the child sucks voraciously and takes in all the hindmilk as well, the body makes more milk, and more fatty hindmilk, because it was demanded. That's all I was getting at before.

 

[Nik]

Nik, you are ignorant of the realities of breastfeeding, and that's why you think just pumping a bottle of milk for a baby isn't a big deal.

blah blah blah wall of text blah blah

I like how you say I'm ignorant of the realities of breast feeding when I haven't contradicted or denied anything you've said or given you any reason at all to come to that dumbass conclusion.

Typical fucking woman, can't listen and doesn't know what she's talking about even though she knows what she's talking about. Oh brother.

Regardless of all the bullshit you just typed out, which I don't disagree with (or give a shit about for that matter), the point is that you live in a society that, for various reasons, agreed that they don't want to see them in public.

Nobody's saying you can't breast feed your child or that, if you ever use a bottle once, you must therefore continue to use a bottle for the rest of the child's life. Mothers and their children, statistically, spend more time in the home than they do outside. When you DO go outside, you know, into public where the society you choose to live in says that they don't want to see it, obey the rules or change the rules through proper methods, or gtfo.

Living in a community benefits you for many reasons but one thing you must do is sacrifice some things you may like to do. I might like to run around naked and it might be much healthier for me to do so, but nobody wants to see that so I don't.

For those few times you must feed the baby while you're in public, there ARE alternatives and using one of those alternatives every once in a while isn't going to kill you or your child.

 

[Nik]

You really do like making things up. I can see discussion with you will not happen. You whine that somebody calls you names, but you continuously do that same thing, and you fail to present real evidence as well.

Well, enjoy being ignorant.

You like calling people "ignorant" as an insult. Don't think you're someone special just because you're not using a vulgar term to insult other people you don't agree with on the internet.