Why is everyone obsessed with 4K?

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Just too new IMHO, is like SSD's were when they came out.

Not even content for most things.
 
Last edited:

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
It's a bit silly really. 4K is nice for work real estate without needing multi-monitor configs but for gaming I don't really see a major benefit (yet). And most of the 4K panels are TN based which kind of defeats the purpose for gaming.

Most "gaming" panels ARE TN based though. IPS while having improved still isn't as fast as TN
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
6,734
514
126
www.facebook.com
Because of DSR/VSR, it's the best form of AA for 1080/1440p. 4K performance is thus applicable to everyone.

Its only applicable when the performance is there. Unless the player is sticking with 4+ year old games, the performance isn't there yet (except for those few running CFX or SLI on Fury X or 980 TI). Better to run at 1440p DSR or just use AA at 1080p right now.
 

omek

Member
Nov 18, 2007
137
0
0
I don't know. I can find plenty of ways to saturate two cards pushing one 1080p monitor between using 120Hz, anti-aliasing, post, oversampling, sweetfx, sharpening ect. You can almost completely rid shimmering by using SMAA in combination with FXAA and using a high level of sharpening, it ends up looking excellent and sharp.
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
7,357
20
81
This is a tech site. Though a very small percentage of the overall user base, there are quite a few of us that already have 4k monitors.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
Its only applicable when the performance is there. Unless the player is sticking with 4+ year old games, the performance isn't there yet (except for those few running CFX or SLI on Fury X or 980 TI). Better to run at 1440p DSR or just use AA at 1080p right now.

Of course you don't have to play at max settings. There is a balance between high PPI and settings, and being maxed at either end has diminishing returns on IQ.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
4K is the new "but will it run crysis" it's a benchmark and it's here to stay.
 

Wall Street

Senior member
Mar 28, 2012
691
44
91
I think that 4k is being discussed more than it is actually used because many discussions are about the 980 Ti or Fury X and Titan X. If you look at the benchmarks of those cards it makes no sense to talk about 1080p because frame rates are 100+ and it makes little sense to talk about 1440p because frame rates are almost all 60-80. For these two cards it makes sense only to discuss 4k where playable frame rates are harder to achieve. Since those cards are the talking points de jour, so is 4k.

In contrast, the discussion of GTX 980, 970, 960, R9 290(X), 280(X), etc. at 1080 and 1440 have been done to death so nobody talks about those topics anymore. Even though a lot more people are still buying those cards, no real reason to talk about them.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,271
323
126
4K is not affordable for cutting edge gaming. But the majority of PC gamers play F2P and online games. And these are pretty damn easy to drive at 4K, even a GTX 960/970 can do it at 100+ fps at max details. And it looks way sharper than 1080p.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
76
Of course you don't have to play at max settings. There is a balance between high PPI and settings, and being maxed at either end has diminishing returns on IQ.

Exactly this. There's many settings on maxed that kills performance for minimal image quality gains, it's best to manual config your games so you get the best fidelity & performance. It just so happens that a lot of games now don't even have MSAA, but come with blur AA, which is why I really like that NV added DSR and forced AMD to follow suit with VSR. Such a great feature to have, its a wonder why it wasn't available before!

Interestingly, I find that VSR incur less of a performance hit than actual MSAA, it must be due to engines moving to deferred rendering. In DA:I, I had better IQ & performance VSR from 1440p down to my 1080p monitor than running 1080p with 4x MSAA (which doesn't cover a lot of objects due to the deferred rendering Frostbite engine).

Still waiting for a nice 4K monitor with Freesync before I jump onboard the 4K train.
 
Last edited:

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
I think it depends on what you are doing. For text/ graphic work, the higher resolution would be nice, but that would depend on how well the OS and programs handle scaling. Just look at how much nicer the retina screen on an iPad, for example, looks compared to the original. For games, I wouldnt go 4k.

1080p for computers is getting a bit too low res, especially for monitors above 24".

Hell back in my day we made do with 640x480 and liked it!
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
I remember back in the day that we'd change resolutions all the time, and balance the settings to resolution until we found an IQ we liked. Now it seems people would rather play at 640x480 than turn down their settings at all.
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
7,357
20
81
Personally I find 1080p 24" good enough too for gaming / general usage. For larger 27-32" monitors for professional work, 1440P is still the "sweet spot" (fewer "scaling" issues in Windows, higher performance in games for same larger monitor size, etc). Can't work out the "hype" behind "not needing AA" (as some claim, whilst others disagree). There's nothing wrong with AA for most people, and stuff like SMAA is an order of magnitude more hardware friendly for most during actual gameplay (outside of side by side static screenshot comparisons often involving zoomed cut outs and red arrows to highlight relatively trivial differences for epeen).

To each there own. If you need zoomed cut outs and red arrows to notice the difference between these two images, the problem is your eyes, not the technology. Exact same graphics settings, one at 1080p, the other at 4k.



 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
I remember back in the day that we'd change resolutions all the time, and balance the settings to resolution until we found an IQ we liked. Now it seems people would rather play at 640x480 than turn down their settings at all.

Can't say I agree with that assessment. If anything it's resolution people don't want to change these days because of how LCD's work compared to the old CRT monitors. Native resolution is usually the highest priority.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,271
323
126
Exactly this. There's many settings on maxed that kills performance for minimal image quality gains, it's best to manual config your games so you get the best fidelity & performance. It just so happens that a lot of games now don't even have MSAA, but come with blur AA, which is why I really like that NV added DSR and forced AMD to follow suit with VSR. Such a great feature to have, its a wonder why it wasn't available before!

Interestingly, I find that VSR incur less of a performance hit than actual MSAA, it must be due to engines moving to deferred rendering. In DA:I, I had better IQ & performance VSR from 1440p down to my 1080p monitor than running 1080p with 4x MSAA (which doesn't cover a lot of objects due to the deferred rendering Frostbite engine).

Still waiting for a nice 4K monitor with Freesync before I jump onboard the 4K train.

This might be what you are looking for :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x905qfFUA_s

Samung UE850 4K IPS 32" Freesync monitor.

It's listed in European shops at 1399 Euro though...might be more than most are willing to swing.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,362
5,033
136
I tried 4K for a while and went back to 1440p @ 120Hz.

1440p in a 27" IPS panel is good DPI and the 120Hz refresh rate is something my GPUs can handle.

Those Steam hardware settings show even 1440p guys are 1%ers, lol. Looks like it will be some years yet before 4K even hits 10% in the gaming world. Hopefully with 14nm/16nm in 2017.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
121
The one benefit to 4K is at really high resolutions say at 70 inches or greater, you can see the individual pixels on 1080P televisions.. having it in 4K would eliminate that. If you do really have money to throw around, 4K on a large 30 inch computer monitor is viable because with a couple of 980 ti's, you can make 4K games like skyrim look stunning as some have mentioned here already. Also more screen real estate if you're a stock trader for charts and stuff.

Outside that nobody is going to notice much of a difference. I have nothing against 4K, I just don't see enough economic incentive to upgrade.. the gains are not there for me to respend on new hardware when my existing setup works fine.
Summing up the reason I care about 4k performance. My 80 inch projector finally setup so happy to have my setup up and running again .
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
Can't say I agree with that assessment. If anything it's resolution people don't want to change these days because of how LCD's work compared to the old CRT monitors. Native resolution is usually the highest priority.

You kind of missed the point. I realize that LCD's have a native resolution, but peoples inability to imagine turning down settings, something we used to do with great frequency, is not an option to today's enthusiast. As a result, most won't consider a 4k monitor.

Back when we used CRT's, we could see there is a balance between settings and resolution. For some reason, possibly because people never change their resolution, people are not willing to adjust settings.
 

Jeff007245

Member
Aug 31, 2007
125
1
81
Still enjoying gaming in Eyefinity HD3D (1080p x 3). Love the screen estate while working on MS Project, Visio, and Excel.

Will do 4k once decent Ultra Wide 21:9 IPS Freesync screens hit the market. Right now the market is stuck with 1440p, and Graphics Cards have yet to mature to take advantage of 4k gaming (max settings and > 60fps).
 
Last edited:

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,301
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
It is just because 4k displays are out now, so obviously 4k must be the best?

Objectively higher resolution gives you better image quality and more desktop space, for those people interested in quality then yes they will probably be interested in 4k. This is hardly new, people have been interested in higher screen resolutions since we've been able to produce displays, every few years we get new standards with bigger and better resolutions, 4k is in no way any different it's just that there's a corresponding media standard like with 1080p that means it will probably be adopted a lot for home cinema/tv/movies.

Yup, just give me a 32", 1440p, 144Hz IPS, freesync monitor.

And the bad colour that goes with trying to run IPS panels with slow pixel response rates at 144hz.

When I can get a single $400 GPU to game at 4K then I might care.

In what games?

The vast majority of games out will run just fine in 4k with either max settings or close to max settings, there's only a handful of games that require any significant sacrifice to achieve 4k, I play games like GTAV in 4k on my GTX980 OC and last night was playing Wolfenstein Old Blood in max settings and 4k with 2xMSAA and it looked amazing.

If you want 4K, I think 34" monitor is the minimum but then that means you need a minimum of 2 high end GPUs or preferably 4 to sustain a 60+ FPS.

It turns out that at least for me 32" is actually comfortable to use at 4k, and again what GPUs you need for 4k depends on a few factors like what games you're playing and in what settings. If for example all you play is CS:GO and DOTA then 4k is absolutely do-able with a single high end GPU, if you want absolute max settings in the latest AAA games at 4k then you'll need a few GPUs, if you can handle disabling 1-2 performance intensive graphics options then you'll run a lot of the modern AAA games at 4k just fine.

And most of the 4K panels are TN based which kind of defeats the purpose for gaming.

Most of the 1080p panels are TN based, so what? There are IPS 4k panels out and I have one, and it blows my old 2560x1600 IPS out of the water, this is simply a non-argument. If you want IPS then don't buy TN, obviously?

The major advances in panel technology have been with G-Synch / Freesync along with IPS displays fast enough to game with

All of which are either available in 4k or coming to 4k this year. My 4k IPS is 4ms and great for gaming.

At over a grand, it's not exactly available.

There's loads of cheap TN 4k panels around now if all you're interested in is additional desktop real estate for work/productivity, you don't need to spend $1k

4K monitors are great because of the super high PPI and fidelity you get from that. Unfortunately we don't have GPUs really up to the task to run that as a gaming resolution without compromises. So it becomes a choice of great pixel density but turning game settings down or maxing game settings at a lower resolution.

See this is a fairly balanced point of view which actually acknowledges the nuance. It's worth saying that if you're a long time gamer who has a large library of games (my steam list is over 500 games) then the vast majority of them (99%+) will run at 4k maxed out just fine on a single high end GPU.

It's only the handful of super high end AAA modern games which push the boundaries such as GTAV which need any significant amount of settings to be dropped. And lets be completely fair here, most people with high end GPUs cannot run this game completely maxed out even at 1080p because they left the graphics scaling of the game very open ended. Chasing the white rabbit of maxing things out in some circumstances is just silly.

If this thread teaches us anything it's that people are generally extremely misinformed about 4k and benchmarks of the absolutely harshest graphical games in 4k does not translate to real world experience.

If we used this same bent logic we could also say that 2560x1600/2560x1440 and even maybe 1080p are simply not playable on a single high end GPU because there exists a few games which you cannot max out, it's just dumb.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,224
1,598
136
Me too mate, on my 18.4" screen on my Alienware 18, even 1920x1080 resolution is a bit too small for my liking so I have to do a DPI scaling of 125%, cannot even imagine they are selling bloody 15" laptops with 4K screens! that must be a big joke! I've had a friend buy a Lenovo Yoga 15" with a 4K display and she either has to hold a magnifier on the screen to see stuff or has to do a 250% scaling to see things at a good size but then not all programs play well with DPI scaling so you get wrongly placed buttons, text, etc.

Exactly. Windows issues with high res displays are still not resolved. maybe it's better with Windows 10 but then but probably not for all applications. 4k on a 15" display is just asking for trouble.

My next display will be a 1440p 120 hz one.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |