Originally posted by: yllus
I don't really think it's a comment on the religion, as much as it is coincidence that the poorest areas of the world are heavily Islamic at this time. If by chance the poles of the world were flipped - North America was predominantly Muslim and the Middle East mostly Christian - I think we'd be saying the same about Christianity.
<-- Owns and has actually read the Koran (in English).
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
It's their fundamental interpretation of the Qu'ran and view of the world telling them to strike.
I think the Bible encourages you to turn the other cheek, not get an eye for an eye.
other parts of the xian bible encourage you to seek revenge, pillage, rape, kill, not to mention murder babies. but contemporary christians cherry pick the xian bible, i.e., take the bits that appeal to them and ignore the rest (or pretend it doesn't exist). within islam, their is not yet a strong liberal or progressive vision of islam. rather, fundamentalist or literalist islam is the mainstream islam. (compare to xianity, where fundamentalist or literalist xianity is practiced by those we marginalise as 'nut jobs'). the only vaguely progressive islam you get at the moment is occuring in places like the usa, western europe.
Originally posted by: mzkhadir
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: dug777
I mean we haven't seen Christian sects blowing the hell out of Jakarta, or Jews bombing nightclubs, or Buddhists hijacking multiple commercial airliners to attack civilian targets...sure you might find the odd example but nothing close to the scale of Muslim terrorism...
I did a unit on the Middle East a few years ago, and it was quite an eye opener, the Islamic attitude to women is nothing short of totally unnacceptable, and shar'iah law is barbaric and backwards by any standard today (look at afghanistan under the taliban)...how you reconcile this 'pure system' of islam with modern beliefs and practices is beyond me...
meh, for them, salvation comes when Satan and his armies have been destroyed, but the Koran doesn't say whether Allah needs a hand, hence the concept of jihad, and we all know where that has led to.
Ummmm....
How about Northern Ireland, with the Catholics and Protestants.
&
Serbia with the ethnic cleansing.
:roll:
yeah, read my bolded bit again more closely maybe
and i can't see how your second point is even slightly related to the matter, thats 'ethnic cleansing'/'genocide', as i understand it...
Most of the time, Muslims are lashing out because they are being opressed.
Originally posted by: BriGy86
religion itself has caused more conflicts (and not always war and death) than anything else on earth
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
It's their fundamental interpretation of the Qu'ran and view of the world telling them to strike.
I think the Bible encourages you to turn the other cheek, not get an eye for an eye.
other parts of the xian bible encourage you to seek revenge, pillage, rape, kill, not to mention murder babies. but contemporary christians cherry pick the xian bible, i.e., take the bits that appeal to them and ignore the rest (or pretend it doesn't exist). within islam, their is not yet a strong liberal or progressive vision of islam. rather, fundamentalist or literalist islam is the mainstream islam. (compare to xianity, where fundamentalist or literalist xianity is practiced by those we marginalise as 'nut jobs'). the only vaguely progressive islam you get at the moment is occuring in places like the usa, western europe.
Originally posted by: Goo
Originally posted by: BriGy86
religion itself has caused more conflicts (and not always war and death) than anything else on earth
Word.
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
It's their fundamental interpretation of the Qu'ran and view of the world telling them to strike.
I think the Bible encourages you to turn the other cheek, not get an eye for an eye.
other parts of the xian bible encourage you to seek revenge, pillage, rape, kill, not to mention murder babies. but contemporary christians cherry pick the xian bible, i.e., take the bits that appeal to them and ignore the rest (or pretend it doesn't exist). within islam, their is not yet a strong liberal or progressive vision of islam. rather, fundamentalist or literalist islam is the mainstream islam. (compare to xianity, where fundamentalist or literalist xianity is practiced by those we marginalise as 'nut jobs'). the only vaguely progressive islam you get at the moment is occuring in places like the usa, western europe.
Ummmm, have you ever read the whole Bible? It is called taking things in context of the message. Any theologian or philosopher will tell you that. Don't take things our of the context of the passage in any book and your logic will be taken with more than a grain of salt.
Rather than saying stuff that people say all the time without doing research, read a little, like I have about the subject and maybe you will come to teerms with it. :thumbsup: Don't just read the Bible (read the Koran, the BoM, the Bhagavagita, the Torah, Septuagint...), search everything and weigh what you believe. Try to understand all religions, but come to a conclusion instead of pointing things out clearly out of context and not knowing for sure.
I am not trying to be condescending here, try to take my words with a grain of salt, but take them in context as well.
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
It's their fundamental interpretation of the Qu'ran and view of the world telling them to strike.
I think the Bible encourages you to turn the other cheek, not get an eye for an eye.
other parts of the xian bible encourage you to seek revenge, pillage, rape, kill, not to mention murder babies. but contemporary christians cherry pick the xian bible, i.e., take the bits that appeal to them and ignore the rest (or pretend it doesn't exist). within islam, their is not yet a strong liberal or progressive vision of islam. rather, fundamentalist or literalist islam is the mainstream islam. (compare to xianity, where fundamentalist or literalist xianity is practiced by those we marginalise as 'nut jobs'). the only vaguely progressive islam you get at the moment is occuring in places like the usa, western europe.
the problem is that they CANNOT 'cherry pick' the Koran, since it is literally the word of allah, as spoken by allah, and as such is perfect in it's entirity.
Originally posted by: dug777
Similarly this is why arabic has remained unchanged since mohammed's time, it's allahs language, and thus is perfect and cannot be improved upon. A modern day arabic speaker could converse easily with, and understand, mohammed for example.
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Originally posted by: Goo
Originally posted by: BriGy86
Division and intolerance has caused more conflicts (and not always war and death) than anything else on earth
Word.
I double that word
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
It's their fundamental interpretation of the Qu'ran and view of the world telling them to strike.
I think the Bible encourages you to turn the other cheek, not get an eye for an eye.
other parts of the xian bible encourage you to seek revenge, pillage, rape, kill, not to mention murder babies. but contemporary christians cherry pick the xian bible, i.e., take the bits that appeal to them and ignore the rest (or pretend it doesn't exist). within islam, their is not yet a strong liberal or progressive vision of islam. rather, fundamentalist or literalist islam is the mainstream islam. (compare to xianity, where fundamentalist or literalist xianity is practiced by those we marginalise as 'nut jobs'). the only vaguely progressive islam you get at the moment is occuring in places like the usa, western europe.
the problem is that they CANNOT 'cherry pick' the Koran, since it is literally the word of allah, as spoken by allah, and as such is perfect in it's entirity.
Yeah, that's the fundamentalism or literalism in action. They just need to get to the point where they CAN 'cherry pick' the Koran (using whatever bogus justification that allows them to sleep at night.) Then you will see the birth of a progressive or 'liberal' islam.
Originally posted by: dug777
Similarly this is why arabic has remained unchanged since mohammed's time, it's allahs language, and thus is perfect and cannot be improved upon. A modern day arabic speaker could converse easily with, and understand, mohammed for example.
Is that correct?
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
It's their fundamental interpretation of the Qu'ran and view of the world telling them to strike.
I think the Bible encourages you to turn the other cheek, not get an eye for an eye.
other parts of the xian bible encourage you to seek revenge, pillage, rape, kill, not to mention murder babies. but contemporary christians cherry pick the xian bible, i.e., take the bits that appeal to them and ignore the rest (or pretend it doesn't exist). within islam, their is not yet a strong liberal or progressive vision of islam. rather, fundamentalist or literalist islam is the mainstream islam. (compare to xianity, where fundamentalist or literalist xianity is practiced by those we marginalise as 'nut jobs'). the only vaguely progressive islam you get at the moment is occuring in places like the usa, western europe.
the problem is that they CANNOT 'cherry pick' the Koran, since it is literally the word of allah, as spoken by allah, and as such is perfect in it's entirity.
Yeah, that's the fundamentalism or literalism in action. They just need to get to the point where they CAN 'cherry pick' the Koran (using whatever bogus justification that allows them to sleep at night.) Then you will see the birth of a progressive or 'liberal' islam.
Originally posted by: dug777
Similarly this is why arabic has remained unchanged since mohammed's time, it's allahs language, and thus is perfect and cannot be improved upon. A modern day arabic speaker could converse easily with, and understand, mohammed for example.
Is that correct?
Originally posted by: mzkhadir
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
It's their fundamental interpretation of the Qu'ran and view of the world telling them to strike.
I think the Bible encourages you to turn the other cheek, not get an eye for an eye.
other parts of the xian bible encourage you to seek revenge, pillage, rape, kill, not to mention murder babies. but contemporary christians cherry pick the xian bible, i.e., take the bits that appeal to them and ignore the rest (or pretend it doesn't exist). within islam, their is not yet a strong liberal or progressive vision of islam. rather, fundamentalist or literalist islam is the mainstream islam. (compare to xianity, where fundamentalist or literalist xianity is practiced by those we marginalise as 'nut jobs'). the only vaguely progressive islam you get at the moment is occuring in places like the usa, western europe.
the problem is that they CANNOT 'cherry pick' the Koran, since it is literally the word of allah, as spoken by allah, and as such is perfect in it's entirity.
Yeah, that's the fundamentalism or literalism in action. They just need to get to the point where they CAN 'cherry pick' the Koran (using whatever bogus justification that allows them to sleep at night.) Then you will see the birth of a progressive or 'liberal' islam.
Originally posted by: dug777
Similarly this is why arabic has remained unchanged since mohammed's time, it's allahs language, and thus is perfect and cannot be improved upon. A modern day arabic speaker could converse easily with, and understand, mohammed for example.
Is that correct?
because you are actually reading/hearing the Holy Quran as it was given to Prophet Mohammed. If it kept changing, there wouldn't be a point to reading the Quran
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: mzkhadir
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
It's their fundamental interpretation of the Qu'ran and view of the world telling them to strike.
I think the Bible encourages you to turn the other cheek, not get an eye for an eye.
other parts of the xian bible encourage you to seek revenge, pillage, rape, kill, not to mention murder babies. but contemporary christians cherry pick the xian bible, i.e., take the bits that appeal to them and ignore the rest (or pretend it doesn't exist). within islam, their is not yet a strong liberal or progressive vision of islam. rather, fundamentalist or literalist islam is the mainstream islam. (compare to xianity, where fundamentalist or literalist xianity is practiced by those we marginalise as 'nut jobs'). the only vaguely progressive islam you get at the moment is occuring in places like the usa, western europe.
the problem is that they CANNOT 'cherry pick' the Koran, since it is literally the word of allah, as spoken by allah, and as such is perfect in it's entirity.
Yeah, that's the fundamentalism or literalism in action. They just need to get to the point where they CAN 'cherry pick' the Koran (using whatever bogus justification that allows them to sleep at night.) Then you will see the birth of a progressive or 'liberal' islam.
Originally posted by: dug777
Similarly this is why arabic has remained unchanged since mohammed's time, it's allahs language, and thus is perfect and cannot be improved upon. A modern day arabic speaker could converse easily with, and understand, mohammed for example.
Is that correct?
because you are actually reading/hearing the Holy Quran as it was given to Prophet Mohammed. If it kept changing, there wouldn't be a point to reading the Quran
So arabic has remained unchanged since mohammed's time? color me skeptical.
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
I'd just like to use the new word Nutjobbery again, as it made me laugh the first time.
Originally posted by: BriGy86
its things like these that make me hate how religion factions off people into diff groups
i believe in a higher being and how you should treate others how you want to be treated, but i wouldn't say im part of any one religion
think about it
religion itself has caused more conflicts (and not always war and death) than anything else on earth
how can this be a good thing if it causes so much chaos and destruction
Originally posted by: dug777
I mean we haven't seen Christian sects blowing the hell out of Jakarta, or Jews bombing nightclubs, or Buddhists hijacking multiple commercial airliners to attack civilian targets...sure you might find the odd example but nothing close to the scale of Muslim terrorism...
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
It's their fundamental interpretation of the Qu'ran and view of the world telling them to strike.
I think the Bible encourages you to turn the other cheek, not get an eye for an eye.
other parts of the xian bible encourage you to seek revenge, pillage, rape, kill, not to mention murder babies. but contemporary christians cherry pick the xian bible, i.e., take the bits that appeal to them and ignore the rest (or pretend it doesn't exist). within islam, their is not yet a strong liberal or progressive vision of islam. rather, fundamentalist or literalist islam is the mainstream islam. (compare to xianity, where fundamentalist or literalist xianity is practiced by those we marginalise as 'nut jobs'). the only vaguely progressive islam you get at the moment is occuring in places like the usa, western europe.
Ummmm, have you ever read the whole Bible? It is called taking things in context of the message.
Originally posted by: DaShen
Any theologian or philosopher will tell you that. Don't take things our of the context of the passage in any book and your logic will be taken with more than a grain of salt.
Originally posted by: DaShen
Rather than saying stuff that people say all the time without doing research, read a little, like I have about the subject and maybe you will come to teerms with it. :thumbsup: Don't just read the Bible (read the Koran, the BoM, the Bhagavagita, the Torah, Septuagint...), search everything and weigh what you believe. Try to understand all religions, but come to a conclusion instead of pointing things out clearly out of context and not knowing for sure.
Originally posted by: DaShen
I am not trying to be condescending here, try to take my words with a grain of salt, but take them in context as well.
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: mzkhadir
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
It's their fundamental interpretation of the Qu'ran and view of the world telling them to strike.
I think the Bible encourages you to turn the other cheek, not get an eye for an eye.
other parts of the xian bible encourage you to seek revenge, pillage, rape, kill, not to mention murder babies. but contemporary christians cherry pick the xian bible, i.e., take the bits that appeal to them and ignore the rest (or pretend it doesn't exist). within islam, their is not yet a strong liberal or progressive vision of islam. rather, fundamentalist or literalist islam is the mainstream islam. (compare to xianity, where fundamentalist or literalist xianity is practiced by those we marginalise as 'nut jobs'). the only vaguely progressive islam you get at the moment is occuring in places like the usa, western europe.
the problem is that they CANNOT 'cherry pick' the Koran, since it is literally the word of allah, as spoken by allah, and as such is perfect in it's entirity.
Yeah, that's the fundamentalism or literalism in action. They just need to get to the point where they CAN 'cherry pick' the Koran (using whatever bogus justification that allows them to sleep at night.) Then you will see the birth of a progressive or 'liberal' islam.
Originally posted by: dug777
Similarly this is why arabic has remained unchanged since mohammed's time, it's allahs language, and thus is perfect and cannot be improved upon. A modern day arabic speaker could converse easily with, and understand, mohammed for example.
Is that correct?
because you are actually reading/hearing the Holy Quran as it was given to Prophet Mohammed. If it kept changing, there wouldn't be a point to reading the Quran
So arabic has remained unchanged since mohammed's time? color me skeptical.
you're welcome to be, but that's the situation as i understand it to be, it has remained essentially unchanged since then
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: mzkhadir
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
It's their fundamental interpretation of the Qu'ran and view of the world telling them to strike.
I think the Bible encourages you to turn the other cheek, not get an eye for an eye.
other parts of the xian bible encourage you to seek revenge, pillage, rape, kill, not to mention murder babies. but contemporary christians cherry pick the xian bible, i.e., take the bits that appeal to them and ignore the rest (or pretend it doesn't exist). within islam, their is not yet a strong liberal or progressive vision of islam. rather, fundamentalist or literalist islam is the mainstream islam. (compare to xianity, where fundamentalist or literalist xianity is practiced by those we marginalise as 'nut jobs'). the only vaguely progressive islam you get at the moment is occuring in places like the usa, western europe.
the problem is that they CANNOT 'cherry pick' the Koran, since it is literally the word of allah, as spoken by allah, and as such is perfect in it's entirity.
Yeah, that's the fundamentalism or literalism in action. They just need to get to the point where they CAN 'cherry pick' the Koran (using whatever bogus justification that allows them to sleep at night.) Then you will see the birth of a progressive or 'liberal' islam.
Originally posted by: dug777
Similarly this is why arabic has remained unchanged since mohammed's time, it's allahs language, and thus is perfect and cannot be improved upon. A modern day arabic speaker could converse easily with, and understand, mohammed for example.
Is that correct?
because you are actually reading/hearing the Holy Quran as it was given to Prophet Mohammed. If it kept changing, there wouldn't be a point to reading the Quran
So arabic has remained unchanged since mohammed's time? color me skeptical.
you're welcome to be, but that's the situation as i understand it to be, it has remained essentially unchanged since then
That statement appears to be incorrect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: DaShen
Any theologian or philosopher will tell you that. Don't take things our of the context of the passage in any book and your logic will be taken with more than a grain of salt.
And who is to say what is "out of context"? You? Lol.
My point is that intepretation can always be argued with a piece of literary fiction such as the koran or xian bible.
And the "correct" (i.e., "in context") interpretation is ALWAYS going to be the interpretation of the guy with the guns, money, and power.
Originally posted by: DaShen
Rather than saying stuff that people say all the time without doing research, read a little, like I have about the subject and maybe you will come to teerms with it. :thumbsup: Don't just read the Bible (read the Koran, the BoM, the Bhagavagita, the Torah, Septuagint...), search everything and weigh what you believe. Try to understand all religions, but come to a conclusion instead of pointing things out clearly out of context and not knowing for sure.
Ah yes, take a lil bit from here, a lil bit from there. Lol.
Originally posted by: DaShen
I am not trying to be condescending here, try to take my words with a grain of salt, but take them in context as well.
I'm not too interested in that kind of wishy-washy, feeble-brained religious eclecticism.
Why sure, little jonny. Only today have I heard in the news that some stores in the UK will no longer sell christmas cards with any kind of religious(christian) symbolism on them. Instead, they will sell only 'seasonal' cards with robins, and maybe snowmen (ooh how sexist of me... snowpeople) on the cover. Similarly, towns are dropping the christmas lights and calling them 'festive' lights."But Loic, what do you mean? could you give me an example?"