Why is it aways Muslims/Muslim sects behind recent acts of terrorism globally?

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Christianity isn't a religion of peace either, what's your point? And you guys EXCEL at quoting the Quran out of context and without any consideration to the history and time period when it was written. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

I actually disagree with your first statement. Christianity is very much a non-violent religion. It is only when people of power tried to use Christianity as a way of gaining power and fooling the masses that it was viewed as anything different.

And I agree with your second statement.

**CASE & POINT**
One of the rulers that made Christianity such a strong presence in Europe was a guy named Constantine, who incidentally started trying to integrate his own beliefs into Christianity as well for his own political gain. When he was baptized, he was asked to lay down his sword and devote his life to non-violence and peace. Instead Constantine was baptized with one hand above the water with his sword in that hand. He had all his soldiers do the same. Christianity in its true form is non-violent. It is only people like this that used it to control the masses (it was a political move for Constantine more than a moral move, many of his subjects were becoming believers so he found that it was the easiest way to control them), that attempted to change Christianity for their own purposes.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: BigLouis
you damned christians had your crusades, it's our turn

Muslims already had their crusades... I think it's time for another religion to have fun now.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: DaShen

I actually disagree with your first statement. Christianity is very much a non-violent religion. It is only when people of power tried to use Christianity as a way of gaining power and fooling the masses that it was viewed as anything different.

And I agree with your second statement.

I don't think that pacifism is a central element of Christianity like it is with Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. unless you look at minority sects like Quakers.

 

[DaShen]

**CASE & POINT**
One of the rulers that made Christianity such a strong presence in Europe was a guy named Constantine, who incidentally started trying to integrate his own beliefs into Christianity as well for his own political gain. When he was baptized, he was asked to lay down his sword and devote his life to non-violence and peace. Instead Constantine was baptized with one hand above the water with his sword in that hand. He had all his soldiers do the same. Christianity in its true form is non-violent. It is only people like this that used it to control the masses (it was a political move for Constantine more than a moral move, many of his subjects were becoming believers so he found that it was the easiest way to control them), that attempted to change Christianity for their own purposes.

All of Jesus' apostles were non-violent in confrontation. The one time that one of them attacked someone, Jesus stopped him and healed the wounded man.

 

[BigLouis]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BigLouis

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Fraggable
Maybe the reason we hear about muslims being responsible for bombings every few days is because that really is what the Koran teaches. Have any of you ever read it? I have. It teaches that anyone who will not convert to Muslim should be killed. It's the people who are truly muslims that are doing the bombings.

I challenge you to come up with the verse that tells Muslims to kill everyone who will not convert.

It's not a verse that tells you to kill people, it's the attitude and mentality it tells you to have towards those who won't agree. You're supposed to hate them if they won't think the way muslims do. If you hate someone the way you're supposed to, the logical thing to do is get rid of them. The Bible won't tell you to hate 'unbelievers', it says to keep trying to persuade them.

It's not in the verses, but it's attitude/mentality? So basically what you said originally has completely fallen apart.

Now, I challenge you to come up with the verse that tells Muslims to hate 'unbelievers'. Are you going to skip out on that one too?

...slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them. But if they repent and establish [Islamic] worship...their way is free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and Merciful. (Quran; Surah 9:5)

Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them... (Quran; Surah 9:5)

I'm not being a bigot but these are easy to find...

You aren't a bigot for pointing out the truth. jpeyton and sully may be sympathetic to muslims but that doesn't mean that "religion" is one of peace.

Christianity isn't a religion of peace either, what's your point? And you guys EXCEL at quoting the Quran out of context and without any consideration to the history and time period when it was written. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Are you serious? How about muslims today taking consideration of when it was written and not killing people in the name of their religion?

I agree. So what percentage of the world's 1.5 BILLION Muslims should take your advice?

A few thousand Palestinian militants? A few thousand militants in Indonesia? Who else? Add them up, divide by 1,500,000,000 and there is your percentage.

Preach to them.[/quote]

Like you're preaching to us.

I get it. :roll:

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: BigLouis

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BigLouis

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Fraggable
Maybe the reason we hear about muslims being responsible for bombings every few days is because that really is what the Koran teaches. Have any of you ever read it? I have. It teaches that anyone who will not convert to Muslim should be killed. It's the people who are truly muslims that are doing the bombings.

I challenge you to come up with the verse that tells Muslims to kill everyone who will not convert.

It's not a verse that tells you to kill people, it's the attitude and mentality it tells you to have towards those who won't agree. You're supposed to hate them if they won't think the way muslims do. If you hate someone the way you're supposed to, the logical thing to do is get rid of them. The Bible won't tell you to hate 'unbelievers', it says to keep trying to persuade them.

It's not in the verses, but it's attitude/mentality? So basically what you said originally has completely fallen apart.

Now, I challenge you to come up with the verse that tells Muslims to hate 'unbelievers'. Are you going to skip out on that one too?

...slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them. But if they repent and establish [Islamic] worship...their way is free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and Merciful. (Quran; Surah 9:5)

Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them... (Quran; Surah 9:5)

I'm not being a bigot but these are easy to find...

You aren't a bigot for pointing out the truth. jpeyton and sully may be sympathetic to muslims but that doesn't mean that "religion" is one of peace.

Christianity isn't a religion of peace either, what's your point? And you guys EXCEL at quoting the Quran out of context and without any consideration to the history and time period when it was written. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Are you serious? How about muslims today taking consideration of when it was written and not killing people in the name of their religion?

I agree. So what percentage of the world's 1.5 BILLION Muslims should take your advice?

A few thousand Palestinian militants? A few thousand militants in Indonesia? Who else? Add them up, divide by 1,500,000,000 and there is your percentage.

Preach to them.

Like you're preaching to us.

I get it. :roll:[/quote]

I don't pretend that a very small percentage of a specific population speaks for the whole.

 

[ITPaladin]

what the hell is a xian bible?
Is that something followed by Vortigaunts?

 

[BigLouis]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BigLouis

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BigLouis

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Fraggable
Maybe the reason we hear about muslims being responsible for bombings every few days is because that really is what the Koran teaches. Have any of you ever read it? I have. It teaches that anyone who will not convert to Muslim should be killed. It's the people who are truly muslims that are doing the bombings.

I challenge you to come up with the verse that tells Muslims to kill everyone who will not convert.

It's not a verse that tells you to kill people, it's the attitude and mentality it tells you to have towards those who won't agree. You're supposed to hate them if they won't think the way muslims do. If you hate someone the way you're supposed to, the logical thing to do is get rid of them. The Bible won't tell you to hate 'unbelievers', it says to keep trying to persuade them.

It's not in the verses, but it's attitude/mentality? So basically what you said originally has completely fallen apart.

Now, I challenge you to come up with the verse that tells Muslims to hate 'unbelievers'. Are you going to skip out on that one too?

...slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them. But if they repent and establish [Islamic] worship...their way is free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and Merciful. (Quran; Surah 9:5)

Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them... (Quran; Surah 9:5)

I'm not being a bigot but these are easy to find...

You aren't a bigot for pointing out the truth. jpeyton and sully may be sympathetic to muslims but that doesn't mean that "religion" is one of peace.

Christianity isn't a religion of peace either, what's your point? And you guys EXCEL at quoting the Quran out of context and without any consideration to the history and time period when it was written. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Are you serious? How about muslims today taking consideration of when it was written and not killing people in the name of their religion?

I agree. So what percentage of the world's 1.5 BILLION Muslims should take your advice?

A few thousand Palestinian militants? A few thousand militants in Indonesia? Who else? Add them up, divide by 1,500,000,000 and there is your percentage.

Preach to them.

Like you're preaching to us.

I get it. :roll:

I don't pretend that a very small percentage of a specific population speaks for the whole.[/quote]


Two good sayings:

Guilt by association

and

And a few rotten apples spoil the whole bunch

 

[mzkhadir]

Originally posted by: ITPaladin
what the hell is a xian bible?
Is that something followed by Vortigaunts?

xian = christian
xian bible = the christian bible

 

[1prophet]

Many of the christian denominations today belong to the church of Laodecia, and as such have been cast out by Jesus.

14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Constantly in pursuit of wealth at the expense of all else. They have forgotten how to take care of their less fortunate neighbors because it might interfere with the bottom line or take away from their constant pleasure seeking. Always worrying about their neighbors house and goods not realizing their own house is collapsing, decaying and rotting from within, while hiding behind laws and lawyers so their right to this lifestyle is protected. Thinking cheaper is better as long as it doesn't affect their next pay raise or lifestyle, muzzling the ox that plows their field in order to squeeze out that last bit of profit for the their next quarterly bonus.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Now that their world is collapsing and the pieces are being scattered about, they lash out like a wounded animal at the other religions, nations, and people who are picking up their pieces not realizing it is their love of money and departure from true christianity that has caused their many ills.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Because they're illiterate savages who take their archaic religion way too seriously. Sorry if that offends anybody, but its the year 2005 and I'm just drunk enough to be honest. Grow the fvck up and quit killing people over a bunch of ridiculous medieval fairy-tales. The Crusades were a 1000 years ago; we in the West have moved on, so please join us in the 21st century or shut the fvck up.

God, if He exists, would not have you slaughter innocent women and children just because you hate Jews. In fact, please forget the Jew altogether and find a fvcking hobby, or do us all a favor and kill yourself. I'm tired of seeing your rabid ass on the news everynight. There are no virgins in paradise, and you're not going there anyway.

 

[klah]

* February 14: A car bomb kills former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri and 20 others in Beirut.
* February 25: A suicide bombing in Tel Aviv kills five Israelis and undermines a weeks-old truce between the two sides.
* February 28: About 125 Iraqis killed by a suicide car bomb outside a medical centre in Hilla, south of Baghdad.
* March 19: Car bomb attack on theatre in Doha, Qatar, kills one Briton and wounds 12 others.
* April: April 2005 terrorist attacks in Cairo ? On April 7 a suicide bomber blows himself up in Cairo's Khan al Khalili market, killing three foreign tourists and wounding 17 others. In two further attacks on 30 April, suspected accomplices detonate a bomb and spray a tourist coach with gunfire.
* June 1: A suicide bomber blows up in a mosque in Kandahar, Afghanistan, killing 20 people.
* June 12: Bombs explode in the Iranian cities of Ahvaz and Tehran, leaving 10 dead and 80 wounded days before the Iranian presidential election.
* July 5: 2005 Terrorist attack on Ayodhya: Six terrorists belonging to Lashkar-e-Toiba storm the Ayodhya Ram Janmbhomi complex in India. Before the terrorists could reach the main disputed site, they were shot down by Indian security forces. One devotee and two policemen were injured.
* July 7: 7 July 2005 London bombings - Attacks on one double-decker bus and three London Underground trains, killing 56 people and injuring over 700, occur on the first day of the 31st G8 Conference. The attacks are believed by many to be the first suicide bombings in Western Europe.
* July 12: Islamic Jihad takes responsibility for a suicide bombing in Netanya, Israel, which kills five people at a shopping mall.
* July 16: A suicide bomber blows up an oil tanker in the predominantly Shiite town of Musayyib in Iraq, killing 98 people.
* July 21: 21 July 2005 London bombings - Small explosions in 3 London Underground stations and 1 double-decker bus. This was pronounced as a "major incident" rather than an attack, and only minor injuries were reported. These 4 bombs were designed to cause as much damage at the 7 July 2005 London bombings but the explosive had deteriorated and failed to detonate.
* July 23: Sharm el-Sheikh bombings: Car bombs explode at tourist sites in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, killing at least 88 and wounding more than 100.
* August 17: 17 August 2005 Bangladesh bombings: Around 100 home-made bombs explode in 58 different locations in Bangladesh, killing two and wounding 100.
* October 1: A series of explosions occurs in resort areas of Jimabaran Beach and Kuta in Bali, Indonesia.
* October 13: A large group of Chechen rebels launched coordinated attacks on Russian federal buildings, local police stations, and the airport in Nalchik, Kabardino-Balkaria. At least 137 people, including 92 rebels, were killed.
* October 15: Two bombs exploded at a shopping mall in Ahvaz, Khuzestan in Iran. Six people died and over 100 were injured.
* October 24: Multiple car bombs explode outside the Green Zone in Baghdad, Iraq kill at least 11. It is thought that the attacks were targeting journalists inside the Palestine Hotel and the Sheraton Ishtar.
* October 27: A Palestinian suicide bomber detonates a bomb near a falafel stand in Hadera, Israel that kills himself and five others. Twenty-six people were also wounded.
* October 29: Multiple bomb blasts hit markets in New Delhi, India, leaving at least 61 dead and more than 200 injured.


Hmmmm... what do all of these acts have in common. Do I need to post 2004, or can we see the theme from this list?

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Because they're illiterate savages who take their archaic religion way too seriously. Sorry if that offends anybody, but its the year 2005 and I'm just drunk enough to be honest. Grow the fvck up and quit killing people over a bunch of ridiculous medieval fairy-tales. The Crusades were a 1000 years ago; we in the West have moved on, so please join us in the 21st century or shut the fvck up.

God, if He exists, would not have you slaughter innocent women and children just because you hate Jews. In fact, please forget the Jew altogether and find a fvcking hobby, or do us all a favor and kill yourself. I'm tired of seeing your rabid ass on the news everynight. There are no virgins in paradise, and you're not going there anyway.

:shocked:

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Because they're illiterate savages who take their archaic religion way too seriously. Sorry if that offends anybody, but its the year 2005 and I'm just drunk enough to be honest. Grow the fvck up and quit killing people over a bunch of ridiculous medieval fairy-tales. The Crusades were a 1000 years ago; we in the West have moved on, so please join us in the 21st century or shut the fvck up.

God, if He exists, would not have you slaughter innocent women and children just because you hate Jews. In fact, please forget the Jew altogether and find a fvcking hobby, or do us all a favor and kill yourself. I'm tired of seeing your rabid ass on the news everynight. There are no virgins in paradise, and you're not going there anyway.

Everything you said is related to the Palestinians which are less than .0005% of the Muslim population (I just made that number up but im sure Im correct)>

Judaism and Islam are more linked than you think.-Jews are hated by billions of people. It's not just a Muslim thing. They dont even know why they hate the Jews

The quran doesnt say anything about virgins or a virgin heaven

Muslims are on the news every nigth because we are in Iraq ... and because they account for 1/4 of the world population.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: BigLouis

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BigLouis

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Fraggable
Maybe the reason we hear about muslims being responsible for bombings every few days is because that really is what the Koran teaches. Have any of you ever read it? I have. It teaches that anyone who will not convert to Muslim should be killed. It's the people who are truly muslims that are doing the bombings.

I challenge you to come up with the verse that tells Muslims to kill everyone who will not convert.

It's not a verse that tells you to kill people, it's the attitude and mentality it tells you to have towards those who won't agree. You're supposed to hate them if they won't think the way muslims do. If you hate someone the way you're supposed to, the logical thing to do is get rid of them. The Bible won't tell you to hate 'unbelievers', it says to keep trying to persuade them.

It's not in the verses, but it's attitude/mentality? So basically what you said originally has completely fallen apart.

Now, I challenge you to come up with the verse that tells Muslims to hate 'unbelievers'. Are you going to skip out on that one too?

...slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them. But if they repent and establish [Islamic] worship...their way is free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and Merciful. (Quran; Surah 9:5)

Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them... (Quran; Surah 9:5)

I'm not being a bigot but these are easy to find...

You aren't a bigot for pointing out the truth. jpeyton and sully may be sympathetic to muslims but that doesn't mean that "religion" is one of peace.

Christianity isn't a religion of peace either, what's your point? And you guys EXCEL at quoting the Quran out of context and without any consideration to the history and time period when it was written. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Are you serious? How about muslims today taking consideration of when it was written and not killing people in the name of their religion?

I agree. So what percentage of the world's 1.5 BILLION Muslims should take your advice?

A few thousand Palestinian militants? A few thousand militants in Indonesia? Who else? Add them up, divide by 1,500,000,000 and there is your percentage.

Preach to them.

Like you're preaching to us.

I get it. :roll:[/quote]

yea... as said before, its not all that sympathise with the cause of militants to various degrees become militants. but the general atmosphere of acceptance encourages their rise and actions.

and really its still ignoring the fundamental fact that the koranic scripture is UNQUESTIONABLE. its the direct word of god through muhammed after all. not scribblings of deciples you can more or less discount if you want. be politically correct all you want, but all you are doing is ignoring the simple ugly facts.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: BigLouis

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BigLouis

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Fraggable
Maybe the reason we hear about muslims being responsible for bombings every few days is because that really is what the Koran teaches. Have any of you ever read it? I have. It teaches that anyone who will not convert to Muslim should be killed. It's the people who are truly muslims that are doing the bombings.

I challenge you to come up with the verse that tells Muslims to kill everyone who will not convert.

It's not a verse that tells you to kill people, it's the attitude and mentality it tells you to have towards those who won't agree. You're supposed to hate them if they won't think the way muslims do. If you hate someone the way you're supposed to, the logical thing to do is get rid of them. The Bible won't tell you to hate 'unbelievers', it says to keep trying to persuade them.

It's not in the verses, but it's attitude/mentality? So basically what you said originally has completely fallen apart.

Now, I challenge you to come up with the verse that tells Muslims to hate 'unbelievers'. Are you going to skip out on that one too?

...slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them. But if they repent and establish [Islamic] worship...their way is free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and Merciful. (Quran; Surah 9:5)

Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them... (Quran; Surah 9:5)

I'm not being a bigot but these are easy to find...

You aren't a bigot for pointing out the truth. jpeyton and sully may be sympathetic to muslims but that doesn't mean that "religion" is one of peace.

Christianity isn't a religion of peace either, what's your point? And you guys EXCEL at quoting the Quran out of context and without any consideration to the history and time period when it was written. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Are you serious? How about muslims today taking consideration of when it was written and not killing people in the name of their religion?

I agree. So what percentage of the world's 1.5 BILLION Muslims should take your advice?

A few thousand Palestinian militants? A few thousand militants in Indonesia? Who else? Add them up, divide by 1,500,000,000 and there is your percentage.

Preach to them.

Like you're preaching to us.

I get it. :roll:

yea... as said before, its not all that sympathise with the cause of militants to various degrees become militants. but the general atmosphere of acceptance encourages their rise and actions.

and really its still ignoring the fundamental fact that the koranic scripture is UNQUESTIONABLE. its the direct word of god through muhammed after all. not scribblings of deciples you can more or less discount if you want. be politically correct all you want, but all you are doing is ignoring the simple ugly facts.

[/quote]

Show me a religion that is peaceful. Go ahead.. name them all.

All you do is preach on how bad Islam is. It gets you nowhere and I dont think anyone is listening.

I think Islam is a slave religion but I dont go around trying to convince people of it.

 

[tfcmasta97]

Originally posted by: Kenazo
There are extremeists in every group.

Christians were historically quite violent (not sure where the misinterpretation of the Bible happened that caused that though)
Jews/Israel are currently pretty extreme
Islam is currently the "bad apple" of the big 3, and always has been more of a "warring" religion (or maybe the ppl that follow it are just into war, I've really got no clue what the Koran actually says on the topic)
Atheists blow up animal testing labs....

We all have our nut jobs.

Correction: Hippies blow up animal testing labs
or whatever you want to call the group of people who tell everyone to not eat animals and wear fur cuz its evil.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Fraggable
Maybe the reason we hear about muslims being responsible for bombings every few days is because that really is what the Koran teaches. Have any of you ever read it? I have. It teaches that anyone who will not convert to Muslim should be killed. It's the people who are truly muslims that are doing the bombings.

I challenge you to come up with the verse that tells Muslims to kill everyone who will not convert.

It's not a verse that tells you to kill people, it's the attitude and mentality it tells you to have towards those who won't agree. You're supposed to hate them if they won't think the way muslims do. If you hate someone the way you're supposed to, the logical thing to do is get rid of them. The Bible won't tell you to hate 'unbelievers', it says to keep trying to persuade them.

It's not in the verses, but it's attitude/mentality? So basically what you said originally has completely fallen apart.

Now, I challenge you to come up with the verse that tells Muslims to hate 'unbelievers'. Are you going to skip out on that one too?

...slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them. But if they repent and establish [Islamic] worship...their way is free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and Merciful. (Quran; Surah 9:5)

Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them... (Quran; Surah 9:5)

I'm not being a bigot but these are easy to find...[/quote]

These verses as explained before were sent down when the Muslim nation was about to be attacked by the non-believers. Read the verses in context, and add the verses before and after.

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: dug777
I mean we haven't seen Christian sects blowing the hell out of Jakarta, or Jews bombing nightclubs, or Buddhists hijacking multiple commercial airliners to attack civilian targets...sure you might find the odd example but nothing close to the scale of Muslim terrorism...

I did a unit on the Middle East a few years ago, and it was quite an eye opener, the Islamic attitude to women is nothing short of totally unnacceptable, and shar'iah law is barbaric and backwards by any standard today (look at afghanistan under the taliban)...how you reconcile this 'pure system' of islam with modern beliefs and practices is beyond me...

meh, for them, salvation comes when Satan and his armies have been destroyed, but the Koran doesn't say whether Allah needs a hand, hence the concept of jihad, and we all know where that has led to.

Every religion has a few people who take the extremist path. Go through history. You will find such examples for all religions (Christianity, Jews, Hindus). You are taking a limited time frame and basing your ideas on it. Being a Muslim doesn't means that you are a terrorist even if some delusional psychotic fools like to think so. I find the term 'Muslim terrorism' very racial and offensive.

Some of the most rigid Muslims live in the Middle East. You are basing your ideas on a select group of people which makes your stand very suspicious.

Women in Islam are a widely exploited topic. I find the status of women in Islam to be much better than some other religions. Islam lays down equal rights for women in most areas. It is upto the people to follow them and not let their regional traditions hamper their understanding of Islam.

Jihad; another word widely used in the wrong context. Jihad in it's essence means 'to do one's utmost for the betterment of oneself and people'. I am doing Jihad by getting education which would enable me to become a successful citizen of my country. Does that makes me a terrorist? Not at all! Armed jihad is valid under certain conditions and the agenda of the terrorists certainly doesn't meets the criteria of armed jihad. Anyone who says suicide bombings will get you into heaven is uttering falsehood and misleading people. Any one who commits suicide; be it by bombing or by jumping off the roof of a skyscraper, will never get into heaven.

You need to get your info straight before posting such racist comments. IMO, you seem to be exploiting a sensetive topic for some ulterior benefit of yours.

Shame on you!

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: dug777
You do know that the only proper way to read the Koran is in Arabic, since it is literally the word of Allah? The difference between the Koran and other holy books is that the muslims believe the Koran is 'literally' the word of allah, and thus is absolutely perfect as it is...

Yes, reading it in Arabic is the proper way but there are accepted translations available. Go buy one and spend sometime reading it.

Koran is the word of Allah. Arabic is a very finicky language, in that, the same sentence can be interpreted in different ways. That's what the terrorists exploit to their own ends.

For that matter, Bible also was the word of Allah before it was modified. Valid religions are identified by 'people of the book'; namely Muslims, Christian, Jews. There are others which have different arguments.

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Crusades

/thread.

What does something that happened 900 years ago have to do with Islamo-facists beheading Christian schoolgirls today? (link)

Some non-Muslim but monotheistic societies in the medieval period had comparable laws. For instance, after Europe became Catholic, severe and harsh restrictions were imposed on European Jews before Islam came to Spain. However, the Arian Visigoths of Spain had been tolerant of Jews, a tradition that lingered in post-Visigothic Septimania, exemplified by the career of Ferreol, Bishop of Uzès (died 581). Visigothic persecution of Jews had to wait for the conversion to Catholicism of the Visigothic king Reccared. The same synod of Catholic bishops in 633 that usurped the Visigothic nobles' right to confirm the election of a king declared that all Jews must be baptised. Then the Visigothic Code (or Forum Judicum) was introduced, with an entire book dedicated to laws concerning Jews. It forced Jews not to prevent their children from baptism, prohibited them from celebrating Passover, undergoing circumcision, marriage of relatives, observing dietary laws, reading books that the Christian faith rejects, and testifying against Christians?as well as forbidding Christians from defending or protecting Jews, and forcing Jews to abstain from labor on Sundays and Christian holidays: see Visigothic Law Code.

Dress codes and other restrictions were forced by Christians on Jews, as well as Muslims in Europe. In Spain they were enforced, and penalties were levied if mudejars did not observe them. As early as 1215 the Fourth Council of the Lateran under Pope Innocent III issued a decree that Muslims and Jews shall wear a special dress to distinguish them from Christians.

Link

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: asadasif

Originally posted by: dug777
I mean we haven't seen Christian sects blowing the hell out of Jakarta, or Jews bombing nightclubs, or Buddhists hijacking multiple commercial airliners to attack civilian targets...sure you might find the odd example but nothing close to the scale of Muslim terrorism...

I did a unit on the Middle East a few years ago, and it was quite an eye opener, the Islamic attitude to women is nothing short of totally unnacceptable, and shar'iah law is barbaric and backwards by any standard today (look at afghanistan under the taliban)...how you reconcile this 'pure system' of islam with modern beliefs and practices is beyond me...

meh, for them, salvation comes when Satan and his armies have been destroyed, but the Koran doesn't say whether Allah needs a hand, hence the concept of jihad, and we all know where that has led to.

Every religion has a few people who take the extremist path. Go through history. You will find such examples for all religions (Christianity, Jews, Hindus). You are taking a limited time frame and basing your ideas on it. Being a Muslim doesn't means that you are a terrorist even if some delusional psychotic fools like to think so. I find the term 'Muslim terrorism' very racial and offensive.

Some of the most rigid Muslims live in the Middle East. You are basing your ideas on a select group of people which makes your stand very suspicious.

Women in Islam are a widely exploited topic. I find the status of women in Islam to be much better than some other religions. Islam lays down equal rights for women in most areas. It is upto the people to follow them and not let their regional traditions hamper their understanding of Islam.

Jihad; another word widely used in the wrong context. Jihad in it's essence means 'to do one's utmost for the betterment of oneself and people'. I am doing Jihad by getting education which would enable me to become a successful citizen of my country. Does that makes me a terrorist? Not at all! Armed jihad is valid under certain conditions and the agenda of the terrorists certainly doesn't meets the criteria of armed jihad. Anyone who says suicide bombings will get you into heaven is uttering falsehood and misleading people. Any one who commits suicide; be it by bombing or by jumping off the roof of a skyscraper, will never get into heaven.

You need to get your info straight before posting such racist comments. IMO, you seem to be exploiting a sensetive topic for some ulterior benefit of yours.

Shame on you!

First what ulterior motive could i possibly have? Have you ever seen one evident in my 12000 odd posts in the last year here? I think not :roll: (other than the unashamed promotion of all things Australian )

Secondly, when is armed jihad acceptable?, thats a worrying thing to be saying i find, my unerstanding (see, feel free to enlighten me ) is that if a 'mujahid' dies in the process of fighting for the causes of allah and islam, in a fight for national independence (because without this there is no possibility of installing a true and ideal islamic regime (which i gather afghanistan under the taliban was supposed to be)), in a fight to get rid of a corrupt muslim regime ('you could be the most pious muslim, attendiung meticuloulsy to all you duties, but if the regime is corrupt, wicked, un-islamic and you did nothing to change the situation, you would be punished on the day of judgement and cannot expect to enter paradise'), to fight against the enemies of Islam and Allah, to fight so that the true islamic order may reign supreme, then as a reward for his martydom he will go directly and immediately to paradise...whats your response to this as a good muslim?

And thirdly, if an act of terrorism is perpetrated by a muslim group (as most of the acts of terrorism globally in recent times have been), it's an act of 'muslim terrorism', nothing racist about it, just a descriptive term...if it was greenpeace i'd say environmental terrorism, if it was the jews i'd say jewish terrorism...would you prefer it i said 'muslim fundamentalist' terrorism?

So why should i feel ashamed for bringing this topic up?

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: asadasif

Originally posted by: dug777
I mean we haven't seen Christian sects blowing the hell out of Jakarta, or Jews bombing nightclubs, or Buddhists hijacking multiple commercial airliners to attack civilian targets...sure you might find the odd example but nothing close to the scale of Muslim terrorism...

I did a unit on the Middle East a few years ago, and it was quite an eye opener, the Islamic attitude to women is nothing short of totally unnacceptable, and shar'iah law is barbaric and backwards by any standard today (look at afghanistan under the taliban)...how you reconcile this 'pure system' of islam with modern beliefs and practices is beyond me...

meh, for them, salvation comes when Satan and his armies have been destroyed, but the Koran doesn't say whether Allah needs a hand, hence the concept of jihad, and we all know where that has led to.

Every religion has a few people who take the extremist path. Go through history. You will find such examples for all religions (Christianity, Jews, Hindus). You are taking a limited time frame and basing your ideas on it. Being a Muslim doesn't means that you are a terrorist even if some delusional psychotic fools like to think so. I find the term 'Muslim terrorism' very racial and offensive.

Some of the most rigid Muslims live in the Middle East. You are basing your ideas on a select group of people which makes your stand very suspicious.

Women in Islam are a widely exploited topic. I find the status of women in Islam to be much better than some other religions. Islam lays down equal rights for women in most areas. It is upto the people to follow them and not let their regional traditions hamper their understanding of Islam.

Jihad; another word widely used in the wrong context. Jihad in it's essence means 'to do one's utmost for the betterment of oneself and people'. I am doing Jihad by getting education which would enable me to become a successful citizen of my country. Does that makes me a terrorist? Not at all! Armed jihad is valid under certain conditions and the agenda of the terrorists certainly doesn't meets the criteria of armed jihad. Anyone who says suicide bombings will get you into heaven is uttering falsehood and misleading people. Any one who commits suicide; be it by bombing or by jumping off the roof of a skyscraper, will never get into heaven.

You need to get your info straight before posting such racist comments. IMO, you seem to be exploiting a sensetive topic for some ulterior benefit of yours.

Shame on you!

First what ulterior motive could i possibly have? Have you ever seen one evident in my 12000 odd posts in the last year here? I think not :roll:

Secondly, when is armed jihad acceptable?, thats a worrying thing to be saying i find, my unerstanding (see, feel free to enlighten me ) is that if a 'mujahid' dies in the process of fighting for the causes of allah and islam, in a fight for national independence (because without this there is no possibility of installing a true and ideal islamic regime (which i gather afghanistan under the taliban was supposed to be)), in a fight to get rid of a corrupt muslim regime ('you could be the most pious muslim, attendiung meticuloulsy to all you duties, but if the regime is corrupt, wicked, un-islamic and you did nothing to change the situation, you would be punished on the day of judgement and cannot expect to enter paradise'), to fight against the enemies of Islam and Allah, to fight so that the true islamic order may reign supreme, then as a reward for his martydom he will go directly and immediately to paradise...whats your response to this as a good muslim?

And thirdly, if an act of terrorism is perpetrated by a muslim group (as most of the acts of terrorism globally in recent times have been), it's an act of 'muslim terrorism', nothing racist about it, just a descriptive term...if it was greenpeace i'd say environmental terrorism, if it was the jews i'd say jewish terrorism...would you prefer it i said 'muslim fundamentalist' terrorism?

So why should i feel ashamed for bringing this topic up?

Armed Jihad is only acceptable under the call of the Caliph (or leader of the entire Muslim nation) on account of attack on the nation or when the sovereignity is threated (for example, stopping water supply, etc). That is IT.

Apart from that, Jihad basically means "struggle" and a good Muslim must struggle every day to conform to Islamic teachings, be it in his daily life or to change a corrupt Islamic government. That does not imply living in a non-Muslim land and Jihadofying to change the non-Islamic government into an Islamic government

As to your last point, I am a Muslim, and I am not associated with terrorism. Bringing in my identity with those who committed an act contrary to a Muslim's belief is offensive to me and to the majority Muslims who have nothing to do with such acts.

Hope that helps and leads to your enlightenment

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: asadasif

Originally posted by: dug777
I mean we haven't seen Christian sects blowing the hell out of Jakarta, or Jews bombing nightclubs, or Buddhists hijacking multiple commercial airliners to attack civilian targets...sure you might find the odd example but nothing close to the scale of Muslim terrorism...

I did a unit on the Middle East a few years ago, and it was quite an eye opener, the Islamic attitude to women is nothing short of totally unnacceptable, and shar'iah law is barbaric and backwards by any standard today (look at afghanistan under the taliban)...how you reconcile this 'pure system' of islam with modern beliefs and practices is beyond me...

meh, for them, salvation comes when Satan and his armies have been destroyed, but the Koran doesn't say whether Allah needs a hand, hence the concept of jihad, and we all know where that has led to.

Every religion has a few people who take the extremist path. Go through history. You will find such examples for all religions (Christianity, Jews, Hindus). You are taking a limited time frame and basing your ideas on it. Being a Muslim doesn't means that you are a terrorist even if some delusional psychotic fools like to think so. I find the term 'Muslim terrorism' very racial and offensive.

Some of the most rigid Muslims live in the Middle East. You are basing your ideas on a select group of people which makes your stand very suspicious.

Women in Islam are a widely exploited topic. I find the status of women in Islam to be much better than some other religions. Islam lays down equal rights for women in most areas. It is upto the people to follow them and not let their regional traditions hamper their understanding of Islam.

Jihad; another word widely used in the wrong context. Jihad in it's essence means 'to do one's utmost for the betterment of oneself and people'. I am doing Jihad by getting education which would enable me to become a successful citizen of my country. Does that makes me a terrorist? Not at all! Armed jihad is valid under certain conditions and the agenda of the terrorists certainly doesn't meets the criteria of armed jihad. Anyone who says suicide bombings will get you into heaven is uttering falsehood and misleading people. Any one who commits suicide; be it by bombing or by jumping off the roof of a skyscraper, will never get into heaven.

You need to get your info straight before posting such racist comments. IMO, you seem to be exploiting a sensetive topic for some ulterior benefit of yours.

Shame on you!

First what ulterior motive could i possibly have? Have you ever seen one evident in my 12000 odd posts in the last year here? I think not :roll:

Secondly, when is armed jihad acceptable?, thats a worrying thing to be saying i find, my unerstanding (see, feel free to enlighten me ) is that if a 'mujahid' dies in the process of fighting for the causes of allah and islam, in a fight for national independence (because without this there is no possibility of installing a true and ideal islamic regime (which i gather afghanistan under the taliban was supposed to be)), in a fight to get rid of a corrupt muslim regime ('you could be the most pious muslim, attendiung meticuloulsy to all you duties, but if the regime is corrupt, wicked, un-islamic and you did nothing to change the situation, you would be punished on the day of judgement and cannot expect to enter paradise'), to fight against the enemies of Islam and Allah, to fight so that the true islamic order may reign supreme, then as a reward for his martydom he will go directly and immediately to paradise...whats your response to this as a good muslim?

And thirdly, if an act of terrorism is perpetrated by a muslim group (as most of the acts of terrorism globally in recent times have been), it's an act of 'muslim terrorism', nothing racist about it, just a descriptive term...if it was greenpeace i'd say environmental terrorism, if it was the jews i'd say jewish terrorism...would you prefer it i said 'muslim fundamentalist' terrorism?

So why should i feel ashamed for bringing this topic up?

Armed Jihad is only acceptable under the call of the Caliph (or leader of the entire Muslim nation) on account of attack on the nation or when the sovereignity is threated (for example, stopping water supply, etc). That is IT.

Apart from that, Jihad basically means "struggle" and a good Muslim must struggle every day to conform to Islamic teachings, be it in his daily life or to change a corrupt Islamic government. That does not imply living in a non-Muslim land and Jihadofying to change the non-Islamic government into an Islamic government

As to your last point, I am a Muslim, and I am not associated with terrorism. Bringing in my identity with those who committed an act contrary to a Muslim's belief is offensive to me and to the majority Muslims who have nothing to do with such acts.

Hope that helps and leads to your enlightenment

And there is no country in the world at this time which can be said to be truly representing Islam and whose leader could be called a true Caliph. A call to armed Jihad by anyone else doesn't holds any meaning.

When people generalize and say Islamic terrorism or Muslim terrorists, that is an insult to me when I am not involved in any such radical acts. Would you prefer I use Christian terrorists promoting abortion or Jewish terrorists commiting a systematic genocide of Palestinians? (And no, it isn't posted to offend anyone, I am just stressing the point of generalization)

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Nice little flamefest on Eid eh?