Why is it aways Muslims/Muslim sects behind recent acts of terrorism globally?

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: J Heartless Slick
How many people in Southeast Asia did the US kill to make the world safe from Communism? How many Iraqis have been killed in the US's latest war against their country? How many people did the Germans killed in the second European world war to make the world a better place for real Germans?

Is there something intrinsic in the US or European character that fosters this total lack of regard for human life?

Considering Christian Europe's and the US's murderous histories, I question the OP's motives and biases for starting this thread.

I think you'll find anyone with a shred of common sense being able to tell you the difference between terrorism and war...and FYI I'm Australian not American.

I asked a perfectly reasonable question, why is it that most acts of terrorism in recent times have been committed by muslims/muslim sects (and if you dispute that fact you've clearly forgotten the Bali bombings and the 11th of september pretty quickly, to name two huge recent examples)?

there really is no difference in terrorism or war. Its killing.

ok there is one difference.....the marketing campaign that precludes it.

edit: there is one other difference....war generates money for rich white people and terrorism causes rich white people to lose money.

umm ok :roll: so you think the Bali bombings and the 11th of september were legitimate acts of war? civilians a fair target?

Why are they not legitamate because they were not approved by rich white men in nice suits?

Ever heard of the Geneva Convention on Armed Warfare? Go away, read up, and learn something Oh, and trolling's bad mmmkay...

I see, so killing tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians is A-OK, as long as you "declare war"?

Small comfort to those who lost someone they love. But then again, you wouldn't know sh1t about it.

What's the REAL difference between war and terrorism? Perspective. And ours is skewed because our media would rather show hours of footage dedicated to terrorism versus a single dead Iraqi civilian lying on the street.

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: Torched

So go give them a hug.

Yeah opressed when the us helped them defeat the russians in afghanistan.

And the US didn't had a vital interest in the so called help? Stop trying to portray America's interests as being the interests of the world. It's not! Don't forget, the US left it's trained fighters there to fester who are now being labelled as terrorists when they attack America back.

And opressed by us giving then tons of money for thier oil.

Tons of money for their oil? By putting sanctions on them and indirectly being the cause of the deaths of millions of children and women? You are doing no one a favour by buying oil from them. Don't forget America needs that oil, not the other way arond.

Opressed as in they nearly control the UN.

You mean the US, right? Their threats to cease their financial support for the UN if it doesn't complies with the US policies is an international blackmail scandal.

Opresssed as in them given the right to practice religion in USA.

Don't other communities have the same rights? I thought America meant freedom...

You want to talk about opressed look into Christianity in china. Christianity in indonesia. Christianity in India. Christianity in :insert muslin nation here: Don't talp about opression.

You want to talk oppressed? Talk about Muslims in America, England (both have plenty of racial discrimination as far as Muslims are concerned - the incidents going unreported are in the thousands), Russia, Kashmir, Palestine, and [insert every Muslim country America has any interest in] here.

The founders of USA were opressed and they rose up in the face of opression to form their own country.

The earliest majority people who came to the US from outside (Britain) were escaped convicted prisoners. It was a safeland for them. Should this tanit their next generations to todays America? No! Talking about oppression? Go look at the French revolution? Didn't the poor people revolt violently?

Muslims have their own countrys already.

There are many Christian majority countries around the world too which you have conveniently forgotten.

Lets take a look at how they run them shall we. Iran, prewar Iraq, prewar afghanistan, Indonesia, etc. Looks to me like there is more opression comming from within their own countries then from the west and the USA whom they continue to attack.

When America has instigated wars between them? When America left Afghanistan to rot after it's interest in the downfall of the Soviet Union was satisfied? These consequences are a result of American history in these regions after they abandoned them.

So give them a hug. They were probably just beaten as children anyways right...Maybe their mommies didn't love them enough.

This is the most foolish post I have seen on AT in quite some time. Quit trolling and go waste someone elses time with your foolish uninformed ramblings.

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: DaShen
Ummmm, have you ever read the whole Bible? It is called taking things in context of the message. Any theologian or philosopher will tell you that. Don't take things our of the context of the passage in any book and your logic will be taken with more than a grain of salt.

Rather than saying stuff that people say all the time without doing research, read a little, like I have about the subject and maybe you will come to teerms with it. :thumbsup: Don't just read the Bible (read the Koran, the BoM, the Bhagavagita, the Torah, Septuagint...), search everything and weigh what you believe. Try to understand all religions, but come to a conclusion instead of pointing things out clearly out of context and not knowing for sure.

I am not trying to be condescending here, try to take my words with a grain of salt, but take them in context as well.

A very sensible suggestion for the trolls on AT.

 

[slayek]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Christianity isn't a religion of peace either, what's your point? And you guys EXCEL at quoting the Quran out of context and without any consideration to the history and time period when it was written. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

I actually disagree with your first statement. Christianity is very much a non-violent religion. It is only when people of power tried to use Christianity as a way of gaining power and fooling the masses that it was viewed as anything different.

And I agree with your second statement.

**CASE & POINT**
One of the rulers that made Christianity such a strong presence in Europe was a guy named Constantine, who incidentally started trying to integrate his own beliefs into Christianity as well for his own political gain. When he was baptized, he was asked to lay down his sword and devote his life to non-violence and peace. Instead Constantine was baptized with one hand above the water with his sword in that hand. He had all his soldiers do the same. Christianity in its true form is non-violent. It is only people like this that used it to control the masses (it was a political move for Constantine more than a moral move, many of his subjects were becoming believers so he found that it was the easiest way to control them), that attempted to change Christianity for their own purposes.

Thats prolly true for every religion. It is some of the scumbugs who misused religion for their own benefits.

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: dug777

the problem is that they CANNOT 'cherry pick' the Koran, since it is literally the word of allah, as spoken by allah, and as such is perfect in it's entirity. Similarly this is why arabic has remained unchanged since mohammed's time, it's allahs language, and thus is perfect and cannot be improved upon. A modern day arabic speaker could converse easily with, and understand, mohammed for example.

There are certain things in the Koran that can be changed by Ijtihad and Ijma (common consensus and opinion of the learned people) and certain things that can't be changed. Furthermore, Arabic was chosen as the language of propagation becuause it was the widely used and prevalent language at that time. An equivalent comparison here will be the use of English if we want to reach the maximum audience in today's world. It was just the language of that time.

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Is that correct? My understanding is that in the more fundamentalist strains of islam, heavy importance is placed on expert scholarly interpetations of islamic holy writings or sayings of mohammed. i.e., people turn to scholars (most of whom have been dead for centuries) rather than seek to critically assess the writings themselves.

You have in a way hit the nail on the head. Muslims have been increasingly consulting what so called scholars say without individual self research into the matters. This has created a (sort of a) monopoly of these scholars who themselves aren't clear on the essential parts of Islam. They are still following the old traditions which have the flexibility to be changed according to the time. That is essentially what makes Islam such a dynamic and flexible religion but this certain attribute is being generously ignored.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: J Heartless Slick
How many people in Southeast Asia did the US kill to make the world safe from Communism? How many Iraqis have been killed in the US's latest war against their country? How many people did the Germans killed in the second European world war to make the world a better place for real Germans?

Is there something intrinsic in the US or European character that fosters this total lack of regard for human life?

Considering Christian Europe's and the US's murderous histories, I question the OP's motives and biases for starting this thread.

I think you'll find anyone with a shred of common sense being able to tell you the difference between terrorism and war...and FYI I'm Australian not American.

I asked a perfectly reasonable question, why is it that most acts of terrorism in recent times have been committed by muslims/muslim sects (and if you dispute that fact you've clearly forgotten the Bali bombings and the 11th of september pretty quickly, to name two huge recent examples)?

there really is no difference in terrorism or war. Its killing.

ok there is one difference.....the marketing campaign that precludes it.

edit: there is one other difference....war generates money for rich white people and terrorism causes rich white people to lose money.

umm ok :roll: so you think the Bali bombings and the 11th of september were legitimate acts of war? civilians a fair target?

Why are they not legitamate because they were not approved by rich white men in nice suits?

Ever heard of the Geneva Convention on Armed Warfare? Go away, read up, and learn something Oh, and trolling's bad mmmkay...

I see, so killing tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians is A-OK, as long as you "declare war"?

Small comfort to those who lost someone they love. But then again, you wouldn't know sh1t about it.

What's the REAL difference between war and terrorism? Perspective. And ours is skewed because our media would rather show hours of footage dedicated to terrorism versus a single dead Iraqi civilian lying on the street.

gotta love AT trolls

If you can't see the difference between terrorism and war, and consider the bali bombings and 9/11 legitimate acts of war (as, clearly does gigapet) then there's little point me or anyone else arguing with you. I'm glad you both managed to stay on topic and answer my question tho' :roll:

 

[0roo0roo]

[napoleon]GOSH[/napoleon]

sure whites/westerner did bad thing in the past. but back then they didn't know better. the general consensus was that such things were natural and right. even the smartest most liberal like jefferson believed that scientifically the blacks were just inferior mentally. the difference is now the muslim terrorists and the societies that nurture them should know better. they are not isolated from knowledge, they simply actively REJECT it.

That is essentially what makes Islam such a dynamic and flexible religion but this certain attribute is being generously ignored.

thats not flexibility. thats called grasping at straws to be an apologist for a deeply flawed ideology. trying to ignore or explain away what you shouldn't have to deal with in the first place. its all a silly game as it makes you essentially and fundamentally a cheater of that religion. you have to be a bad muslim to be a good person as many people are already doing obviously. and so the fundamentalists will always have the strongest case.

 

[Thug Esquire]

Originally posted by: Whisper
There might not be Christian sects blowing the heck out of Jakarta...but they sure do a good job against abortion clinics.

And killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims. *cough*President*cough*

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
[napoleon]GOSH[/napoleon]

sure whites/westerner did bad thing in the past. but back then they didn't know better. the general consensus was that such things were natural and right. even the smartest most liberal like jefferson believed that scientifically the blacks were just inferior mentally.

Trying to justify racism? That's very low. I don't recall reading about any such racial discrimination based on color at that level and at that time anywhere else. It was not a lack of knowledge that caused it. It was plain simple discrimination and racism.

 

[DeeKnow]

to me it is really quite simple...

Islam preaches ignorance -they would rather you go to school only to learn how to recite the quran
kids raised that way have zero chance of making it in life

so they sit around all day watching life pass them by... what's more, they are told it is evil to listen to music, to dance, to drink, to basically do anything that is remotely fun.... you sit around feeling miserable for about twenty years, and BOOM! you reach a stage where you just want to blow up everything in sight...

it is sad, and there's no end in sight

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: DeeKnow
to me it is really quite simple...

Islam preaches ignorance -they would rather you go to school only to learn how to recite the quran
kids raised that way have zero chance of making it in life

so they sit around all day watching life pass them by... what's more, they are told it is evil to listen to music, to dance, to drink, to basically do anything that is remotely fun.... you sit around feeling miserable for about twenty years, and BOOM! you reach a stage where you just want to blow up everything in sight...

it is sad, and there's no end in sight

ahh.. just like christianity, gotcha

 

[DeeKnow]

Originally posted by: Czar

ahh.. just like christianity, gotcha

so the fundamentalist christians want you to go to school to learn how to recite the quran?
damn!!

LOL... just kidding.... but i hear ya

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: DeeKnow
to me it is really quite simple...

Islam preaches ignorance -they would rather you go to school only to learn how to recite the quran
kids raised that way have zero chance of making it in life

so they sit around all day watching life pass them by... what's more, they are told it is evil to listen to music, to dance, to drink, to basically do anything that is remotely fun.... you sit around feeling miserable for about twenty years, and BOOM! you reach a stage where you just want to blow up everything in sight...

it is sad, and there's no end in sight

Remember the catholic church just a few centuries back? It was quite a similar situation except for the fact that the Church's control was even more absolute......

Tell me that even now the church doesn't calls anyone reading the Harry Potter books as a sinner?

I am a Muslim and indulge in all these 'fun things' but no one has ever stopped me. The emphasis is on getting modern education alongside religious one. I don't know when you last read something factual about this but it seems you need to have another go at it.

 

[DeeKnow]

Originally posted by: asadasif

I am a Muslim and indulge in all these 'fun things' but no one has ever stopped me. The emphasis is on getting modern education alongside religious one. I don't know when you last read something factual about this but it seems you need to have another go at it.

well... i did not read anything about this.... just what i saw during my travels...
in my previous job, i spent a fair bit of time in Iran, Saudi, Kuwait, Egypt, Oman and UAE...

I suspect it would be fair to label that as 'factual'....?

 

[meltdown75]

why has this crap remained in OT?

(no offense dug)

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: asadasif

Originally posted by: DeeKnow
to me it is really quite simple...

Islam preaches ignorance -they would rather you go to school only to learn how to recite the quran
kids raised that way have zero chance of making it in life

so they sit around all day watching life pass them by... what's more, they are told it is evil to listen to music, to dance, to drink, to basically do anything that is remotely fun.... you sit around feeling miserable for about twenty years, and BOOM! you reach a stage where you just want to blow up everything in sight...

it is sad, and there's no end in sight

Remember the catholic church just a few centuries back? It was quite a similar situation except for the fact that the Church's control was even more absolute......

Tell me that even now the church doesn't calls anyone reading the Harry Potter books as a sinner?

If you're still talking about Catholicism, they certainly do not view Harry Potter readers as sinners. In fact, the priest at my mom's Catholic church is a huge Potter fan - often talking about the books and has the whole collection available in the day care facility.

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: DeeKnow
well... i did not read anything about this.... just what i saw during my travels...
in my previous job, i spent a fair bit of time in Iran, Saudi, Kuwait, Egypt, Oman and UAE...

I suspect it would be fair to label that as 'factual'....?

I am telling you about NOW. How many years have passed since these supposed travels of yours??

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: DougK62
If you're still talking about Catholicism, they certainly do not view Harry Potter readers as sinners. In fact, the priest at my mom's Catholic church is a huge Potter fan - often talking about the books and has the whole collection available in the day care facility.

I am an avid reader of the HP books. I have read countless articles about this 'HP reader is a sinner' issue. Go to any reputable HP website and search the archives. You will get lots of hits on this particular topic.

There are oddballs in every group. I would call your stated priest to be an exception since my results have always been negative as far as this topic is concerned.

 

[RaDragon]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: asadasif

Originally posted by: DeeKnow
to me it is really quite simple...

Islam preaches ignorance -they would rather you go to school only to learn how to recite the quran
kids raised that way have zero chance of making it in life

so they sit around all day watching life pass them by... what's more, they are told it is evil to listen to music, to dance, to drink, to basically do anything that is remotely fun.... you sit around feeling miserable for about twenty years, and BOOM! you reach a stage where you just want to blow up everything in sight...

it is sad, and there's no end in sight

Remember the catholic church just a few centuries back? It was quite a similar situation except for the fact that the Church's control was even more absolute......

Tell me that even now the church doesn't calls anyone reading the Harry Potter books as a sinner?

If you're still talking about Catholicism, they certainly do not view Harry Potter readers as sinners. In fact, the priest at my mom's Catholic church is a huge Potter fan - often talking about the books and has the whole collection available in the day care facility.

LOL. I dunno how you guys got to discussing HP and Catholicism in a Muslim Thread, but I can tell you that the Catholic church* does not call people who read HP (or "The Da Vinci Code") sinners. We know it's fiction.

[ e d i t ]
*The US Conference of Catholic Bishops have publicly specified that, anyway...

 

[BrokenVisage]

So this is still in OT eh?