Why is it even a question that Bush's domestic spying is illegal?

[shady28]

Bump.

I thought it was relevant.

 

[OutHouse]

lol, i remember this thread. there a few who are eating crow right now...

 

[BoberFett]

"War", gentlemen? What "War"? The phony "War on Terror"?

War exists only between nations, not between nations and nebulous puffed-up boogeymen....

Once the whole ruse is exposed, then the rationale for citizen surveillance falls apart....

..until Obama wins, then everything is copacetic.

Spy away boys! The Democrats are in charge! Anything goes!

LOL, funny bump.

 

[ivwshane]

..until Obama wins, then everything is copacetic.

Spy away boys! The Democrats are in charge! Anything goes!

LOL, funny bump.

Interesting because I've never once seen jhnnn support Obamas continued spying or wiretapping of Americans.

So yeah, I guess it must seem funny to you to see people be consistent even when "their guy" is in office.

 

[shady28]

..until Obama wins, then everything is copacetic.

Spy away boys! The Democrats are in charge! Anything goes!

LOL, funny bump.

Meh, not really. While I characterize myself conservative, I wrote against this.

My main argument was that the principle used, relativism, where we don't need to follow the constitution, merely re-interpret it. The thing is, that thought process gets used all over the place.

Like "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." gets interpreted to mean we can still regulate weapons, because <insert explanation>. That is not what it says though.

In this case "..no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation.." gets re-interpreted to, if you're 3 levels removed from a suspected terrorist and a computer program picks it up, we can search without a warrant.

We just keep getting farther and farther away from what the constitution actually says, all over the board, until it is quite literally meaningless.

I'm not real sure who started all of that sliding on constitutional interpretation, but I suspect it was Herbert Hoover.

 

[rudder]

"War", gentlemen? What "War"? The phony "War on Terror"?

War exists only between nations, not between nations and nebulous puffed-up boogeymen....

Once the whole ruse is exposed, then the rationale for citizen surveillance falls apart....

Good thing Obama declared the war on terror over... now the NSA spying can stop.

 

[thraashman]

Well, technically there is a difference. When Bush did it, it was illegal. During the late Bush years the FISA law was updated to make certain foreign surveillance legal that previously wasn't. In addition for any of the wiretapping Obama has done domestically he did get permission from the FISA court, even if it was rubber stamp permission.

None of that makes Obama's wiretapping ok, just not illegal.

 

[waggy]

Well, technically there is a difference. When Bush did it, it was illegal. During the late Bush years the FISA law was updated to make certain foreign surveillance legal that previously wasn't. In addition for any of the wiretapping Obama has done domestically he did get permission from the FISA court, even if it was rubber stamp permission.

None of that makes Obama's wiretapping ok, just not illegal.

hahahahahhaa

 

[ThinClient]

The constitution requires warrants for searches. Isn't that clear?



And isn't the government required to follow the law?

The domestic spying is done without warrants.

ummm....?

So why is it even a question that Bush's domestic spying is illegal?

Oh shut up about Bush. Bush has become the default whiner's target. Bush this, Bush that, whine whine whine whine whine.

This crap has been going on since the end of WW2 when five nations got together to agree to do this in secret, called the Echelon program.

Bush had nothing to do with starting or continuing it.

 

[sm625]

Why is it even a question that Bush's domestic spying is illegal??? Because the country has been taken over by a foreign enemy, and that enemy has managed to destroy the minds of about 70-80% of americans to the point where they are incapable of making a rational decision or even assessing the tactical situation. We are literally under the control of a hostile enemy power and most people literally cannot see it. No hyperbole, this is really happening and has been this way for quite some time. They control most of the educational system, so most people grow up under the enemy propaganda and never even think to question it. And most of them never will. They never read books, they never study history, so they have no hope to ever really see what's going on. It's just absolutely crazy how blind they are to not see it, but they simply refuse to. Meanwhile, while most of the country is stunned by the enemy's technological flash-grenade, the enemy is sucking out all the wealth and implementing eugenics. It gets crazier and crazier but still people refuse to see the enemy. So when the enemy does something blatantly unconstitutional, of course there is little resistance to it because there is just so little mental power left in the people.

 

[monovillage]

Another delicious old thread where we get to see our lefties eat their words.

 

[ThinClient]

Why is it even a question that Bush's domestic spying is illegal??? Because the country has been taken over by a foreign enemy, and that enemy has managed to destroy the minds of about 70-80% of americans to the point where they are incapable of making a rational decision or even assessing the tactical situation. We are literally under the control of a hostile enemy power and most people literally cannot see it. No hyperbole, this is really happening and has been this way for quite some time. They control most of the educational system, so most people grow up under the enemy propaganda and never even think to question it. And most of them never will. They never read books, they never study history, so they have no hope to ever really see what's going on. It's just absolutely crazy how blind they are to not see it, but they simply refuse to. Meanwhile, while most of the country is stunned by the enemy's technological flash-grenade, the enemy is sucking out all the wealth and implementing eugenics. It gets crazier and crazier but still people refuse to see the enemy. So when the enemy does something blatantly unconstitutional, of course there is little resistance to it because there is just so little mental power left in the people.

You say "they" a lot but you never say who "they" is and you don't provide any links to support your tinfoil hat wearing monologue.

 

[ivwshane]

Another delicious old thread where we get to see our lefties eat their words.

Yeah? How so?

 

[Fern]

I don't see anything wrong with the the Patriot Act as designed and passed. Spying on foreigners is nothing new, nor unconstitutional. And after passage both Dems and Repubs bipartisanly passed amendments to prevent the type of domestic spying we now have.

But according to Snowden Obama changed it. I would guess that Holder's fingerprints are all over it. And contrary to the poster above I see no evidence that the FISA court approved the policy change. Nor do I believe they have that ability. The FISA court isn't actually a court. A court has both sides represented, and the FISA court hears only the govt's side.

WASHINGTON &#8212; Since 2010, the National Security Agency has been exploiting its huge collections of data to create sophisticated graphs of some Americans&#8217; social connections that can identify their associates, their locations at certain times, their traveling companions and other personal information, according to newly disclosed documents and interviews with officials.

The spy agency began allowing the analysis of phone call and e-mail logs in November 2010 to examine Americans&#8217; networks of associations for foreign intelligence purposes after N.S.A. officials lifted restrictions on the practice, according to documents provided by Edward J. Snowden, the former N.S.A. contractor.

The policy shift was intended to help the agency &#8220;discover and track&#8221; connections between intelligence targets overseas and people in the United States, according to an N.S.A. memorandum from January 2011. The agency was authorized to conduct &#8220;large-scale graph analysis on very large sets of communications metadata without having to check foreignness&#8221; of every e-mail address, phone number or other identifier, the document said. Because of concerns about infringing on the privacy of American citizens, the computer analysis of such data had previously been permitted only for foreigners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/u...works-of-us-citizens.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Fern

 

[rudder]

Yeah? How so?

"War", gentlemen? What "War"? The phony "War on Terror"?

War exists only between nations, not between nations and nebulous puffed-up boogeymen....

Once the whole ruse is exposed, then the rationale for citizen surveillance falls apart....

Lol