Why is it so difficult for people to get mental help

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Nov 8, 2012
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Just trying AA will do nothing, it is a process, and a lifelong commitment for the alcoholic. That sounds about right, acting like she's emotionally still 18, when did she start drinking?

If you "aren't playing that game" you might as well kick her out, psych doctors aren't going to be able to do shit for her.

When did she start drinking? No clue, I haven't known her for too long, she was a coworker of my wife. I do know this: When she gets drunk she starts wanting to emotionally talk to us to the point of possibly just making shit up in order for us to try and feel/talk to her. She says her dad raped her, she says she tries to commit suicide last week, her mom doesn't like her anymore - At this point, it sounds like it's made up for the attention seeking as well.

It's funny, when we have events where normal people drink and have a good time - she actually looks bored! Example: We occasionally have game night with some friends. While everyone is laughing their ass off to some funny games, she's just sitting there looking bored.

We're contemplating kicking her out, believe me... but it's tossing out a decent source of revenue too... sooo.. tough call :\
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Ok - thats what I figured the answer would be - so here is my next question:

As someone that has epilepsy (and has for quite some time) why is it deemed a psychiatrist is the appropriate doctor for a "mental disorder"? As someone that studies the brain... and nothing but the brain - why isn't a neurologist the one to treat these? I mean, if it's a mental disorder, than you are DEEMING it as something defective with the brain, afterall?

It's not a good idea to compartmentalize diseases, meaning you shouldn't say a patient has "x" so you have to fix "y".

Maybe this will put things into perspective. http://www.epilepsymatters.com/english/lwebehavioural.html

Someone who has epilepsy can have psychological problems unrelated to neurology. If the disease itself is amenable to treatment but the patient needs help coping a psychiatrist can take care of both.
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
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congrats, you just figured out why we NEED obama care..

you cant trust a doctor to not be a human, and be a greedy money hog if they have the ability...

i too take a med, a benzo, for anxiety...... 150 bucks a month for the doctor visit..... imagine if i was a low income individual.......i dont even want to imagine, it, and i have so much respect for those who are busting there asses in min wage jobs and suffer through real problems that they could NEVER AFFORD to remedy by seeing a doctor.


it gets really crazy when you learn about how marijuana is really the perfect medicine for MOST of these types of problems...

but your ass is going to jail if you try to self medicate the correct way...
 

Rio Rebel

Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Someonesmind,

AA is only one way to get sober, but it does work for many people. If a person is suffering from depression, it makes it much less likely that she will be able to take the necessary steps. Alcoholics already suffer from delusion and denial, depression only makes that barrier steeper.

There are Intensive Outpatient Programs which will treat both. Here in Indianapolis, I know of several. They are designed to treat a person suffering from both addiction (alcohol or other) and depression. There is hope. But she will have to want it.
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
17
81
Someonesmind,

AA is only one way to get sober, but it does work for many people. If a person is suffering from depression, it makes it much less likely that she will be able to take the necessary steps. Alcoholics already suffer from delusion and denial, depression only makes that barrier steeper.

There are Intensive Outpatient Programs which will treat both. Here in Indianapolis, I know of several. They are designed to treat a person suffering from both addiction (alcohol or other) and depression. There is hope. But she will have to want it.

well said. great post.


i was an addict once. now i'm not... you get my utmost respect if you've went down my path.. the others are just zombie's...
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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If we can prevent one suicide, one murder, one mass shooting,,,, shouldn't we as a society be focused on mental health reform? Why aren't we as a culture having a serious debate on the need for mental health reform?
No, because mental illnesses are imaginary. A blood test can't say how good your mental health is.

And suicide is a personal choice and the govt has done a lot to prevent a safe, painless, guaranteed way out.
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
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I wouldn't say all are imaginary, many result from psychological trauma or abuse and chemical imbalances that are very real to the sufferers.

Although if your problem is you see stuff that isn't there, then yes. You problem is specifically imaginary.
 
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Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
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Not difficult as in finding a doctor, but difficult as in having limited refills, needing health insurance, price of the doctors visit, price of the medicine,,,.

...............shouldn't we as a society be focused on mental health reform?

Why aren't we as a culture having a serious debate on the need for mental health reform?

Quoted from article:

"Mental illness isn’t just a criminal justice problem or a regulatory issue, and we can’t treat it like one. But for the past few decades, that’s exactly what we’ve done: Instead of treating people with serious mental illnesses, we’ve shoved them to the margins of society where they could be easily ignored. According to a 2006 report [PDF] from the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics, more than half of the country’s prison population suffers or has suffered from mental disorders. Only a fraction of that population receives treatment during their incarceration.

Mental illness is also endemic to homelessness. According to the statistics [PDF] from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, nearly two-thirds of the chronically homeless in America “have experienced lifetime mental health problems.”
The roots of America’s poverty-and-punishment solution to mental illness can be traced back to the mid-twentieth century and the once-promising trend of deinstitutionalization. This Kaiser Commission report [PDF] is a good primer on the history of the movement. In the late fifties and early sixties, civil libertarian activists challenged the involuntary commitment of hundreds of thousands of Americans in mental hospitals, saying that it violated civil liberties and that the hospitals themselves often subjected patients to horrible conditions.

At first, according to the report, the downsizing of mental hospitals was accompanied by a serious effort to create infrastructure for a national community health clinic. But a number of institutional, economic and political pressures gradually eroded the burgeoning program. The killing blow came in the Reagonomics area, when President Ronald Reagan dismantled much of the federal welfare state, leaving countless mentally ill Americans without access to income or housing. Federal funding for community mental health clinics dropped by 25%.

Trying to render the mentally ill invisible—or, worse, trying to funnel them through our increasingly corpulent and barbaric criminal justice system—won’t mitigate the problem. Nor will it do any good to stigmatize mental illness, or sensationalize the horrific actions of a small handful of individuals. What is needed here is real support and real treatment".

Link to article above for full reading

I have never understood people (in America) who cannot see that the brain is an organ, like any other organ in the body, that can become diseased, malfunction and or be deformed. If someone has cancer or is born with Spina Bifida or some other condition they are not treated with the same type of malice and disregard, and hate as someone who has a diseased brain.

Mental health in this country is a very serious issue, and yet we have politicians and Governors cutting funding to mental health services back to the extreme, shutting down much needed psychiatric facilities, leading to bed shortages, and placing the mentally ill in jails and prisons, where the staff are ill equipped to deal with them. Those who are in the jails and prisons who are truly mentally ill get far worse there, and often times are not medicated properly, nor given the type of in depth treatment that is needed for stabilization.

We shuffled our mentally ill who are homeless out of hospitals as soon as there is no profit to be made with "one way" tickets to another city, with no support or medications. We beat and even kill our mentally ill via our law enforcement (as in many cases already documented on youtube and news articles).

It is the way society views the mentally ill. The sad fact is that most people with a mental illness such as yourself Texas Hiker are not violent, and with proper treatment can get better and be productive citizens in the world.

There are huge lists of famous people who have mental illnesses, like Robin Williams, Catherine Zeta Jones, Drew Carry, Mel Gibson, and many many others including some famous scientists and artists. But they are the lucky ones who have the money and support.

Yea, that is what it boils down to. Money.. in the end.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
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We have some pharmacists here and some physicians too. I am neither. But I've been on this earth long enough to know that your doctor wants to see you to make sure of several things. Here is a short list that I as a layman am aware of.

Are you still taking your meds? You obviously do. With some forms of mental illness it can be difficult to get the patient to take their meds or to take them consistently.

Is the medication working? People develop resistance to medications. Maybe your dosage should be adjusted. Maybe a different medication is now available with less side effects. Maybe you are seeing a different doctor for a medical condition and that doctor has you on some medication. There could be interactions between those medications.

Have you put on weight or lost weight? Your dosage may be one that needs to be fine tuned.

Have you developed side effects that are potentially dangerous? They may have built up slowly over time to where you don't think much of it. By questioning you, your Doctor may save you further complications. Some medications these days list as a possible side effect, death. Yes, that's right.

These are just some of the good reasons to see your Doctor on the schedule he or she is asking of you.

Thank you for posting this; though it pains me that it's not obvious to people why prescription medicine use needs to be closely monitored..
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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though it pains me that it's not obvious to people why prescription medicine use needs to be closely monitored..

If the medicine works to treat mild depression, why keep making the people go back to the doctor?

If someone is hearing voices, then yea, they probably need to be monitored.

As a matter of public health shouldn't some people be able to get their medicine free and on demand? Or at least get emergency refills without a prescription?

As I have stated earlier in the thread, prescription run out, store refuses to refill, voices tell guy "screw the refill lets go the gun store and teach those bastards a lesson."

Which is the lesser of the two evils, providing emergency refills, or someone running out of their medicine?

Which would be a greater burden upon society, everyone paying a 1 cent tax to provide free medicine to the mentally ill, or having a naval yard shooting every few months?
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Thank you for posting this; though it pains me that it's not obvious to people why prescription medicine use needs to be closely monitored..

Some years back we had what the OP advocates. Physicians would write for unlimited refills with no time limits for medications. Awesome! Why would they change that? Because people were getting very ill or dying as a result. Life is dynamic. Someone seen this year by a practitioner is not the same as the one the year before or next. Disease states change. New problems emerge. This is a way to make sure that no harm comes from avoiding contact between patient and provider. The OP wants everyone to have health care but wants to make sure they can avoid it at the cost of their health. That doesn't work.

Now as far as the topic at hand, mental illness is dynamic. It always has the potential to change and for the worse. Those with problems use this and similar arguments to avoid being seen and the absolute worst judge of mental health is the patient. They are in a box they cannot see out of. Contact isn't an unnecessary burden but the primary means that issues are resolved or at least controlled or mitigated.

The OP brings up shooters. If a person cannot take ownership of their situation and be seen and arrange to get medication and whatever other therapy is appropriate then why should one think they are capable of managing their disease state on their own in perpetuity? What is proposed is a mechanism to make sure that more, not less, tragic situations occur.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
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Its hard to get mental health services because no one gives a fuck about your mental suffering, that is, not until you start shooting. Then it suddenly becomes their problem and they decide to give half a shit.
Also, insurance companies don't give a fuck about your mental suffering. Not rich? Your fucked. Mental health services, long term therapy with shrinks etc, are for people who can pay the $200/hr with their own money. Insurance has something called "crisis prevention" and they will pay for a couple weeks or months, just enough so they can say they tried to save your life before you commit suicide.
The solution, according to doctors, is to drug the shit out of you for the rest of your life. This is cheaper since you can't afford real therapy.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
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The solution, according to doctors, is to drug the shit out of you for the rest of your life. This is cheaper since you can't afford real therapy.

Somethings are past therapy.

A buddy of mine I went to high school with (mid-1980s) started using drugs and abusing alcohol at an early age. Most of his friends tried to get him to stop using, but he would not stop. He was drinking all the time and staying high when he was 15 years old.

His dad kicked him out at 17 years old, he went to live with his sister for a year or so.

Finally he just walked away. He walked away from everything, his friends, his family,,, everything. Nobody knew where he was at for close to a decade.

He finally contacted his older brother who I also went to school with.

Unknown to everyone, including his close friends that he had been hearing voices. To squelch the voices he turned to drugs and alcohol.

The voices told him the world was coming to an end, which he shared what the voices told him with his brother.

My friend killed himself.

Maybe, just maybe if he had gotten the help he needed back in the 1980s he would still be with us today.

I would never thought Steven would have taken his own life. Never in a million years would I have thought that. I, along with his close friends, live with the guilt that his support system failed him. His friends failed him (but what did we know about mental illness at 15, 16 and 17 years old), his parents failed him, and the school system failed him.

But how do you tell the difference between bad behavior, and a mental illness. I think the differentiation gets blurred.

His friends thought he was just a teenager acting bad. When the truth was he had a mental illness.
 
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TeeJay1952

Golden Member
May 28, 2004
1,540
191
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If you ask for help "you aren't that bad." If someone asks for help for you, We have to find out whether they are your enemy. A giant cluster of he said she said. The legal system is confusing and medicine is an art . Makes for difficult calls.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
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Somethings are past therapy.

Yes, they certainly are and I am sorry about your friend. There is a time and place where meds are needed and helpful, but they are abused and used as an easy fix ($$$$). People just don't care about mental health in the US. It is seen as a weakness and it gets laughed away as a simple inconvenience. The thing about mental illness is that people don't get it until they suffer.
Everyone knows what its like to have physical pain, so they expect the system to help others who suffer. But people don't understand mental pain so they don't give a shit! They think its not real. They think its used as an excuse. They think "depression" simply means feeling sad!
 

Rockinacoustic

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2006
2,460
0
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If the medicine works to treat mild depression, why keep making the people go back to the doctor?

If someone is hearing voices, then yea, they probably need to be monitored.

As a matter of public health shouldn't some people be able to get their medicine free and on demand? Or at least get emergency refills without a prescription?

As I have stated earlier in the thread, prescription run out, store refuses to refill, voices tell guy "screw the refill lets go the gun store and teach those bastards a lesson."

Which is the lesser of the two evils, providing emergency refills, or someone running out of their medicine?

Which would be a greater burden upon society, everyone paying a 1 cent tax to provide free medicine to the mentally ill, or having a naval yard shooting every few months?

I'm sorry, but since when does non-compliance to antidepressants and antipsychotics automaticaly = violent outrage?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
I'm sorry, but since when does non-compliance to antidepressants and antipsychotics automaticaly = violent outrage?

You ever come off your depression medicine cold turkey?

Going cold turkey on anything that alters brain chemistry can have bad results.
 
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