why is it so hard for people from the ghetto to get out of the ghetto?

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eleison

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2006
1,319
0
0
Hiphop and rap music....plus the "man".. who conveniently is disguised as a "black man"....
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
Originally posted by: n yusef
@ric1287, destrekor, et al:

Do you have any experience in poor black urban neighborhoods? Even if you don't, it should be obvious that most poor black people are poor and black because their parents and grandparents are poor and black. Just like most middle class white people are middle class and white because their parents and grandparents are middle class and white. Sure, there are exceptions. You can be an addict or go bankrupt or already be poor, and if you have no support system, end up in a black ghetto. But most of the middle class has some support. If I spent all my money on drugs, my family would send me to rehab. If I lost my job, I would live with my parents. I assume this is the case for most of AnandTech Forums.

right. i can agree with that. while not 100% true i would say it is for the majority that live in such areas.

but then they also have the opportunity to get out of that situation. question is why do so many not take advantage of it? why are those that try looked down on? being born to the ghetto is not a life sentence of living in the ghetto.

Though this is not just confined to poor blacks. Same situation happens to many poor whites.

i suspect that its part of the culture, upbringing, and society that does it. The Asian culture seems to be one of the few that seems to beat the "ghetto" perhaps the difference in how education and family is thought of pay a big reason for it.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: n yusef
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: n yusef
Why are people replying to my post, which is about how one "lands" in the ghetto, with assertions of personal responsibility to get out of the ghetto? All I did was correct the fallacious statement, "the type of decision making and values that lands your family in the ghetto."

Go find another post to reply to with straw arguments.

This right here, this attitude, this culture.

Is EXACTLY why they will never get out of the ghetto. Regardless of skin color this type of thinking is why.

Get a job, work hard, graduate, don't have kids out of wedlock or ones you can't afford, stop commiting crimes and POOF!

You're out of the ghetto.

My ability to stay on topic is why poor black people can't get out of the ghetto? :roll:


No. Black culture is.
 

eleison

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2006
1,319
0
0
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: n yusef
@ric1287, destrekor, et al:

Do you have any experience in poor black urban neighborhoods? Even if you don't, it should be obvious that most poor black people are poor and black because their parents and grandparents are poor and black. Just like most middle class white people are middle class and white because their parents and grandparents are middle class and white. Sure, there are exceptions. You can be an addict or go bankrupt or already be poor, and if you have no support system, end up in a black ghetto. But most of the middle class has some support. If I spent all my money on drugs, my family would send me to rehab. If I lost my job, I would live with my parents. I assume this is the case for most of AnandTech Forums.

many asians came here lower middle class and their kids are now middle/upper-middle/upper class.

is their whole ethnicity an exception to you?

Plus the Jews during the 60's and 70's.. Oh, don't forget about the recent eastern europeans that came here with nothing, and are doing well despite that.. In addition, my mom knows a few "true" africans from Zaire, etc.. a lot of them are doing ok.


Its rap music and hip hop, I tell you.
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,032
2
0
I'm upper middle class, but my grandmother wore potato sacks with no shoes, picking cotton and growing food the first 25 years of her life. Raised 7 kids with an alcoholic husband who had a passion for losing money in shady deals.

I guess now I have a valid excuse if I fuck up in life.
 

n yusef

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2005
2,158
1
0
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: n yusef
@ric1287, destrekor, et al:

Do you have any experience in poor black urban neighborhoods? Even if you don't, it should be obvious that most poor black people are poor and black because their parents and grandparents are poor and black. Just like most middle class white people are middle class and white because their parents and grandparents are middle class and white. Sure, there are exceptions. You can be an addict or go bankrupt or already be poor, and if you have no support system, end up in a black ghetto. But most of the middle class has some support. If I spent all my money on drugs, my family would send me to rehab. If I lost my job, I would live with my parents. I assume this is the case for most of AnandTech Forums.

right. i can agree with that. while not 100% true i would say it is for the majority that live in such areas.

but then they also have the opportunity to get out of that situation. question is why do so many not take advantage of it? why are those that try looked down on? being born to the ghetto is not a life sentence of living in the ghetto.

Though this is not just confined to poor blacks. Same situation happens to many poor whites.

i suspect that its part of the culture, upbringing, and society that does it. The Asian culture seems to be one of the few that seems to beat the "ghetto" perhaps the difference in how education and family is thought of pay a big reason for it.

I realize that my post was incomplete. There are other ethnic and racial groups that generally have social mobility, and many individual cases of economic mobility for black and white people. This can be attributed to many things. Education, family structure and the existence of positive roll models are frequently mentioned. An aspect to economic mobility that is often overlooked is entrepreneurship. Owning and running a business has always been a key to success for immigrants. I see the failure of the black community as a reflection of its low rates of business ownership.
 

Sumguy

Golden Member
Jun 2, 2007
1,409
0
0
Hmm...my parents came here with no money, no degree, and no understanding of the English language. They pretty much fought it out and did they had to do. Some family in the US, but in different areas and all in the same position.

What I've noticed is that kids of (legal) immigrants usually end up doing pretty well. The children grow up in a different environment with different beliefs, and for some things, they can not rely on their parents and need to figure it out alone. I cringe every time I hear one of my friends say "I dont care, my parents pay for it," my line of logic is "Money is money, and this just happens to be my parents money. I'd rather not waste it if I can avoid it."

Of my cousins, whos parents obviously had the same circumstances, a large portion ended up being engineers, dentists, doctors, lawyers, etc. Why? Our parents forced education down our throats. They absolutely did not fuck around with it, you either went to college or found a skill and worked. I don't know what happens if their kids do neither, because that hasn't happened. Imagine Asian parents, only with much darker skin and an islander accent (not Jamaican). My dad HATES the ghetto black culture, to this day he would kick my ass if he saw me wearing pants that hung below my ass. He doesn't even like it when I don't wear a belt. Same with my aunts and uncles.
 

Sumguy

Golden Member
Jun 2, 2007
1,409
0
0
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
Article talking about how Asian, Jewish and West Indian immigrants do far better than other groups.

Text

Well, theres my demographic lol
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
All these "well my family succeeded" stories are nice, but pretty much irrelevant to the experience of growing up poor and black in crime-ridden inner city america. There is simply no immigrant analogue that will reproduce the experience on par with the legacy of slavery and jim crow that remain in this country.
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
Growing up in atmosphere where people tell you you're not worth crap, parents who don't hardly pay attention to you, peer-pressured into "less productive" activities,..... How can anyone grow up not seeing the white coler side of the world or having the confidence or drive to educate themselves?
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: jonks
All these "well my family succeeded" stories are nice, but pretty much irrelevant to the experience of growing up poor and black in crime-ridden inner city america. There is simply no immigrant analogue that will reproduce the experience on par with the legacy of slavery and jim crow that remain in this country.

Oh jesus.....
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,050
3
0
Originally posted by: jonks
All these "well my family succeeded" stories are nice, but pretty much irrelevant to the experience of growing up poor and black in crime-ridden inner city america. There is simply no immigrant analogue that will reproduce the experience on par with the legacy of slavery and jim crow that remain in this country.

are you black?
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: jonks
All these "well my family succeeded" stories are nice, but pretty much irrelevant to the experience of growing up poor and black in crime-ridden inner city america. There is simply no immigrant analogue that will reproduce the experience on par with the legacy of slavery and jim crow that remain in this country.

Here, try this success story.

Or is he an "Uncle Tom" to you?
 

Sumguy

Golden Member
Jun 2, 2007
1,409
0
0
Originally posted by: jonks
All these "well my family succeeded" stories are nice, but pretty much irrelevant to the experience of growing up poor and black in crime-ridden inner city america. There is simply no immigrant analogue that will reproduce the experience on par with the legacy of slavery and jim crow that remain in this country.

Somehow coming from an island makes my parents, aunts, and uncles less black and poor?
 
Apr 17, 2005
13,465
3
81
Originally posted by: Sumguy
Originally posted by: jonks
All these "well my family succeeded" stories are nice, but pretty much irrelevant to the experience of growing up poor and black in crime-ridden inner city america. There is simply no immigrant analogue that will reproduce the experience on par with the legacy of slavery and jim crow that remain in this country.

Somehow coming from an island makes my parents, aunts, and uncles less black and poor?

YEAH! and you guys were never slaves!!!!

wait...

Along with Caribbean blacks, I'm sure African immigrants also do well also. People can talk about race but America is the least racist country in the world...if you can't make it here, you can't make it anywhere.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
91
Originally posted by: eleison

Plus the Jews during the 60's and 70's.. Oh, don't forget about the recent eastern europeans that came here with nothing, and are doing well despite that.. In addition, my mom knows a few "true" africans from Zaire, etc.. a lot of them are doing ok.


Its rap music and hip hop, I tell you.

Black African immigrants are a model minority. You're not off-base with the rap music - culture is a significant factor in holding black Americans back. Black Africans did not grow up in that culture, and have different values. I don't know that you can blame rap music, but rap music is an expression of the values of black America - the values that are holding people back. Parents are largely to blame for raising their kids with the wrong values.

Bill Cosby was right
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
3
76
Honestly the path to success shouldn't be that difficult. Why dont people do this:

Step 1: Dont have any fucking babies
Step 2: Move out of the ghetto (there are lots of areas in the US that have really cheap living but are way safer)
Step 3: Get a job doing something, anything.
Step 4: When you finally get married and have children, make sure they stay in school and get a good education.
Step 5: Profit.

When my parents and I first immigrated to the US, they did all they could to live in a safe part of town that also let me go to a good elementary school. I think we ate cabbage and nearly expired chicken for a year and lived in the living room of a 1 bed room 1 floor house while another couple lived in the bedroom. Either way, you make it work.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Honestly the path to success shouldn't be that difficult. Why dont people do this:

Step 1: Dont have any fucking babies
Step 2: Move out of the ghetto (there are lots of areas in the US that have really cheap living but are way safer)
Step 3: Get a job doing something, anything.
Step 4: When you finally get married and have children, make sure they stay in school and get a good education.
Step 5: Profit.

When my parents and I first immigrated to the US, they did all they could to live in a safe part of town that also let me go to a good elementary school. I think we ate cabbage and nearly expired chicken for a year and lived in the living room of a 1 bed room 1 floor house while another couple lived in the bedroom. Either way, you make it work.

whoa there buddy, TOO LOGICAL. Much easier to blame the man!
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Honestly the path to success shouldn't be that difficult. Why dont people do this:

Step 1: Dont have any fucking babies
Step 2: Move out of the ghetto (there are lots of areas in the US that have really cheap living but are way safer)
Step 3: Get a job doing something, anything.
Step 4: When you finally get married and have children, make sure they stay in school and get a good education.
Step 5: Profit.

This can only happen unless a child has the parental help that they need to do this. Very rarely does a child come from a bad background and achieve. If more of their parents cared, it would totally change everything.
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
3
76
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Honestly the path to success shouldn't be that difficult. Why dont people do this:

Step 1: Dont have any fucking babies
Step 2: Move out of the ghetto (there are lots of areas in the US that have really cheap living but are way safer)
Step 3: Get a job doing something, anything.
Step 4: When you finally get married and have children, make sure they stay in school and get a good education.
Step 5: Profit.

This can only happen unless a child has the parental help that they need to do this. Very rarely does a child come from a bad background and achieve. If more of their parents cared, it would totally change everything.

I think even if your parents are retards and youre now a 20 year old, it's time to move you ass out of the ghetto and do something. Even without an education, there still work you can do
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
Originally posted by: zerocool84
This can only happen unless a child has the parental help that they need to do this. Very rarely does a child come from a bad background and achieve. If more of their parents cared, it would totally change everything.

Apathy is the white man's fault!
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: jonks
All these "well my family succeeded" stories are nice, but pretty much irrelevant to the experience of growing up poor and black in crime-ridden inner city america. There is simply no immigrant analogue that will reproduce the experience on par with the legacy of slavery and jim crow that remain in this country.

lol you gotta be black if you're seriously going to subscribe to that shit.

it's a circle that has come around fully multiple times, and is completely self-fulfilling these days.

Do the inner city blacks WANT to improve the racism and stereotypes against them? Doesn't seem that way, because if I was a store owner, it would have nothing to do with skin color. If someone shows up wearing clothes like they are a thug, they aren't getting the job most likely. They could be white. Hell, they could be asian or middle eastern. Hell, even Jewish. If someone dresses like a thug, they are telling me they don't give a shit.

There's inner city life, which is harsh, and then they're living up every stereotype there is, so you can FIT IN and relish the inner city life. Most of the kids in the inner city do exactly that. They make claims they want to get out, and one day will succeed. They are pushing it off and living in a dream, because the way they keep going about daily life, they're doomed to stay in the ghetto.

The parents seem not to care. Either there are the honest parents who want to do right for their kids but don't put any effort into it and never realize the freedoms they give them are screwing up their opportunity to ever break out on their own.
Hell, a lot of it is honest parents who remember their childhood in the inner city, but if they are somewhat older and have older teens, they may not even understand what is going on for real on their own streets, and don't keep their kids in the clear, because they accept what the kids are saying as fact and never catch up until its too late. I've watched that a few times, and that is definitely not limited to inner-city life.

And then there's the welfare abusing parents who still keep pushing out kids (or maybe they did actually stop after 2 or 3), and either let there kids do whatever, or have no oversight or authority over them.
The broken homes are the worst though, especially once the kids get old enough that the single parent no longer hires someone to watch over them while they work, maybe even more than one job too. With the older, now free kids, trouble happens a LOT if the environment provides the opportunity.

As soon as kids are allowed to succumb to the thug life, outlook for breaking out of the ghetto changes to slim through never-going-to-happen.
It takes a certain kind of parent to keep kids out of trouble. For the ghetto, it's almost an impossible task. For the most part, parents in middle-class neighborhoods can get away with giving a little freedom to the kids. It is expected the kids will get into some mischief but hopefully raised appropriately to never venture into anything terrible. And it tends to work, because the environment provides little since other kids will be equal in level of mischief.
In the ghetto, a kid could be controlled tightly except for a few times, where they get introduced to what really goes on, and the kid is going to want to impress certain peers. Maybe its a girl, maybe its other kids he thinks are readily accepted and praised by peers in school... it's a social thing where kids don't want to be outcast or rejected through failure to live up to the standards of a peer group. Find the wrong peers, and it often isn't really peer pressure, but self pressure, and the troubled ones quickly accept their path. Those mistakes just keep snowballing.
So essentially, it'll take extremely amazing parenting skills, and the ability to properly drill a child into accepting complete responsibility (over something), and accept full authority by you and have complete respect (two-way). But really, it's hell. Because even then, you gotta make sure the kid doesn't incorporate too much of the street image, and speaks clearly (at least around adults, then it's at least certain he can talk that way away from his peers), because his appearance and his verbal delivery will often be the determining criteria for jobs.

Oh, and don't assume many places don't hire people just because they are from the ghetto. Remember how poor education is within the inner city for most cities, and the drive for education is minimal. Plus there are those who never seek a job until suddenly they have to, which often comes at the same time as dropping out of school.
All of this is a negative alone, because, [warning tangent ahead] sorry... fuck affirmative action.

That shit pisses me off, just another thing allowing those in the ghetto to stay that way with no qualms. Hire the qualified individual. Remove the damn ethnicity questions. We try and push color so much, but all it does is encourage the continued separation based on color and ethnic background. Seriously, we're all fucking human. All share the same specific DNA. Human adaptation and genetic separation across the surface of the planet, over the span of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years, resulted in different outside physical appearances. We are a petty species who has to put everything and everyone into groups, no matter the effect. Fucking retarded.

But affirmative action. God damn bullshit. If I ever own a business. I don't care what they look like if they are the most qualified individual. If I have equally qualified individuals then I'll use preference, probably would be how they talk, how they express themselves, how they dress if a uniform isn't involved, etc. But sorry, qualifications matter. I don't care if that meant I ended up having an all-black workplace, or all-asian, or all-white. If those are the people who came to me with the highest qualifications, that's all that matters. Putting someone into a position just to look like I hire all groups (what groups?) equally, why? What if that means I am putting work efficiency at risk, among other things.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Step 2: Move out of the ghetto (there are lots of areas in the US that have really cheap living but are way safer)

The cheapest places to live IS THE GHETTO...if they could do better most would move up a notch.

Originally posted by: Mo0o
I think we ate cabbage and nearly expired chicken for a year and lived in the living room of a 1 bed room 1 floor house while another couple lived in the bedroom. Either way, you make it work.

Most places forbid more than 2 adults per bedroom, so what your family did was bring ghetto life to a nicer neighborhood.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
Originally posted by: alkemyst

Most places forbid more than 2 adults per bedroom, so what your family did was bring ghetto life to a nicer neighborhood.

As long as it was in the house and not on the porch who gives a fuck
 
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