Why is it such a crime to believe in an intelligent creator?

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KingGheedora

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2006
3,248
1
81
I know belief in God is majorly unpopular on this forum but even still I can't help but to ask the question why is it so hard to believe that it's possible that God could have created life?

No one ever questions that someone invented computers, the internet, the wheel, power tools, automobiles, etc.. All of those things pale in comparison to the complexity of even the most basic cellular life form. Scientists have known for years that the Earth and the universe are governed by the laws of physics. That suggests planning and deliberate intention. The law of gravity, the water cycle, procreation and the DNA strand are all examples of regulated structure. It's hard to believe that examples such as these could have *all* happened by pure circumstance.

How does it suggest planning? If a being so amazing and intelligent and power enough that they could create the universe existed, wouldn't that being be at least as amazing and complex as the universe (if not more), and therefore wouldn't that just create an even more complicated and unanswerable question: Who created "God"?

We accept that people invented cars, internet, etc, because we know the men and women who invented those things.


If that were the case we would be witnessing such miracles as these on a constant basis, we would see new and radical forms of life evolving around us at an unprecedented rate.

This conclusion also doesn't make sense.

We don't have evidence to disprove the existence of God, but at the same time there is no evidence to justify belief in a God. Any other magical explanation for the existence of the Universe is just as valid as "God". God was an idea thought up by men thousands of years ago.

God in the sense of an intelligent creator is more believable than God in the Christian/Judaic/Islamic sense (anthropomorphic deity who communicates with men).

To get a better perspective on religion one has to understand that information that begets itself lasts longer than information that doesn't. This is how culture arose. In that sense it is similar to life, because once an idea, like a religion, exists and has within it the constructs to spread and perpetuate itself, it is "alive". It can battle against other ideas for dominance. Life is just a complex phenomena that happens on top of the Universe, dependent upon the rules that govern things at the molecular level. Lower than that, the quantum rules work together to give us the atomic/molecular world. Higher than human life, ideas and culture lives overlayed onto the collective human minds.

The Universe is just information that behaves according to rules. Atoms aren't really any more real than Christianity. We experience matter as "real", but it's not really any more real than energy or gravity. Our minds are built to experience matter as real/substantial, because that is the primary dimension we experience. Religion is the same -- it is just as real as a basketball or a cat. I sometimes like to think that all that really exists is logic. Logic is the purest and most real aspect of the universe. But that could be totally wrong.

The only reason religion exists is because it is one of the ideas that was the fittest at surviving. The interesting thing about this is those in the thrall of religion are subjugated by it, and usually conditioned to believe the religion as dogma. Christianity exists due to a combination of its "fitness" and circumstance -- but most Christians would assume it is because it is "right". But take any other religion on the planet.

There are a billion of other humans across the planet born into Islam. It's just luck of the draw that determines which one you're born into. Are they any more wrong than Christians, or Jews? Those religions don't really get a long with one another and to those within, the others are as different as night and day. But they are really just branches and offshoots of a single monotheistic ideas.

Just like species diverge when they are separated, ideas (like religions) branch and diverge from one another. Sometimes they meet up again after hundreds or thousands of years and meld back again (the same way species do).

Looking at the world through the lens of religion will (hopefully) one or two thousand years from now be a thing of the past. Your question is representative of the battle happening right now between the new Idea on the block (scientific method) vs Religion. One may win over the other. It really just depends on the fitness of each idea, or they may eventually both reach an equilibrium of coexistence, where they occupy different niches rather than competing with each other. Just like some animals occupy different environments, or become diurnal to avoid competing with the nocturnal species that would otherwise be their adversaries. Right now science and religion are fighting or negotiating to see who will be in charge of determining how humans interpret the ontological aspects of the universe. In the medieval and renaissance periods Science fought religion for control of explaining the physical world and the solar system, and won that battle. At least for the most part.

So to ask the questions you have asked is to boil down the true beauty of everything I have written here (my articulation of these ideas doesn't do the subject justice) to an overly simplistic and misleading dichotomy. Open your eyes and look at things for what they really are.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
I have no issue with it, I just don't believe in it. Unless you count the trial and error of mother earth in giving birth to us over the millions(billions?) of years as "intelligent creator"
 

GotIssues

Golden Member
Jan 31, 2003
1,631
0
76
The belief and disbelief in God has it's roots in the exact same part of human nature - the desire to explain everything.

Those who believe in God do so because they need an explanation of why things exist.

Those who don't believe in God do so because the existance of God can't be explained.

Personally, I find the first set of reasoning lazy and irrational and the second set of reasoning narcissistic and illogical.
 

qliveur

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2007
4,089
70
91
It isn't a crime. It only becomes a crime when you try to pass your beliefs on others through legislation, or corrupt the beliefs of foreign cultures under the guise of "help".
Or cram it down your children's throats.
 

YoungGun21

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,551
1
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/loading Cerpin Taxt
Insofar as creationism does not necessarily involve logical contradiction, it is therefore possible. It just doesn't seem to be borne out by reality.


We have clear evidence of the existence of those inventors and an understanding of their methods.


If you cannot produce a method by which these things were allegedly intelligently designed, the proposition is scientifically meaningless. Science doesn't care who did something. It wants to know how. "Magic" is not a suitable answer.


I disagree. The persistent regularities of the universe actually suggest a stark absence of intermeddling magic beings that might disrupt the patterns in our observations.


Regulated by what? Please do not confuse our abstracted patterns for actual limitations on the behaviors of reality.


I think it is reasonable to believe that these things were inevitable, in fact. On an infinite timeline, every non-zero probability approaches 1.


This is a misunderstanding of evolutionary mechanics.

This...was awesome.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Wind is the consequence of differences in barometric pressure. You can create it in an aquarium using hot and cold on opposing ends of a tank, for example. I'm pretty sure I saw it on Mr. Wizard once.

Got any other head-scratchers, Poindexter?
Or in the shower if the room is a bit cold. The warm air rises out the top of the shower, and cold air forces its way in by pushing the curtain inward.

So in short, a temperature difference is all you need. And guess what - at any one time, half the planet is in sunlight, and half is not.
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
5
76
So in short, a temperature difference is all you need. And guess what - at any one time, half the planet is in sunlight, and half is not.

Oh and sunlight does not just contain the wavelengths which are visible to our human eye. We see only a small part of the spectrum.. we are mostly blind in that sense.

So much for intelligent design.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
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I know belief in God is majorly unpopular on this forum but even still I can't help but to ask the question why is it so hard to believe that it's possible that God could have created life
Most atheists are willing to accept the possibility that there might be a God even if they don't believe that there is enough evidence to believe in the supernatural with any certainty. Are you willing to believe that there isn't a God even though you see some evidence of his existence in your life? If you approach the debate from a standpoint of "this is what I believe, I refuse to consider counter-arguments, you are wrong if you disagree with me," then the discussion has nowhere to go and is meaningless.

Can you picture a universe without God?
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,898
12,365
126
www.anyf.ca
Funny thing is people are willing to have faith in all sorts of other things but as soon as it comes to God it's the end of the world. We will never be able to explain every aspect of this world, just move on. I hate how some people's lives are devoted to trying to disprove God. Atheists are like a big cult and they want everyone to join them. Soon they'll even start going door to door.
 

qliveur

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2007
4,089
70
91
I hate how some people's lives are devoted to trying to disprove God.
How is that any worse than devoting one's life to a fairy tale?

Yes, a lot of atheists are arrogant pricks who just want to feel superior, but many others are genuinely concerned because they find the notion of a huge percentage of the population being deceived by a lie rather disturbing.
 
Last edited:
Nov 29, 2006
15,657
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Funny thing is people are willing to have faith in all sorts of other things but as soon as it comes to God it's the end of the world. We will never be able to explain every aspect of this world, just move on. I hate how some people's lives are devoted to trying to disprove God. Atheists are like a big cult and they want everyone to join them. Soon they'll even start going door to door.

Reality: Mr. Red Squirrel, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Red Squirrel: Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine.
 

Beev

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2006
7,775
0
0
How is that any worse than devoting one's life to a fairy tale?

Yes, a lot of atheists are arrogant pricks who just want to feel superior, but many others are genuinely concerned because they find the notion of a huge percentage of the population being deceived by a lie rather disturbing.

This. The fact that our country is still "one nation under god" is ridiculous. It's 2011, not god damn 1011. Religion affects everyone and it needs to be more of a personal thing you keep the fuck to yourself.

And it REALLY needs to get out of the government.
 
Dec 26, 2007
11,783
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Funny thing is people are willing to have faith in all sorts of other things but as soon as it comes to God it's the end of the world. We will never be able to explain every aspect of this world, just move on. I hate how some people's lives are devoted to trying to disprove God. Atheists are like a big cult and they want everyone to join them. Soon they'll even start going door to door.

That might be true for some, but not myself. I believe what I can backup with science, evidence, facts, and rational/logical thought processes based in reality.

My largest issue with belief in God is that it tends to create real world issues. The middle east, gay marriage, the wars, and hundreds of thousands of other things in this world are directly related to and/or caused by religion and religious beliefs. I see religion as a detriment to humanity on the whole. Due to the Dark Ages humanity actually lost knowledge and if it hadn't have happened we would have had ~1,000 years more to develop knowledge and science.

More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other singular reason.
 
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