Why is it that MP3s suck compared to CDs? What, you don't think so? What's your opinion?

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Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,753
1,311
126
I'll answer some questions and make some comments, in no particular order.

SACD. Sony's own vapourware version of high resolution audio.

CD audio is 1.4 Mbit (stereo) if you consider 1000000 bits to be 1 Mbit. If Phalkon's calculation is half the right size. 128 kbps is 10:1 and 256 is 5:1.

CD isn't a perfect solution. I think I'd prefer 96 KHz 20-bit just for piece of mind, yet still maintain some flexibility for multiple channels. 192/24 takes up too much space for a consumer format (for now). At that size, a standard DVD would only hold 1/2 an hour of stereo music. At 96/20, we could have several hours of 6 channel music with space left over for extras on the disc or alternate versions, etc. Plus, it would be easier to migrate to the technology, since the current spec calls for all DVD players to be 96/24 compatible anyway. 192 is another story.

Noting that CDs aren't perfect, they're still pretty good. And MP3 can come very close. I wouldn't use any downloaded MP3s for testing. Much of the stuff on the net is crap, regardless of the bit rate. I encode my own, and in fact updated my system specifically for MP3 encoding. I use two drives widely known for their excellent DAE quality. I use several different MP3 codecs, depending on my intentions. I use Fraunhofer HQ 256 CBR for hard to get stuff, and Xing VBR High (up to 320) for speed. However, even though MP3 is a convenience format, I consider 128 kbps from ANY codec to be unacceptable quality (although some are less unacceptable than others). Furthermore, 99% of computer sound cards are also inadequate for testing if you're using the computer speakers or analogue output.

Here's a clue. I belong to a couple of professional audio groups. At one meeting, we ran a CD through a Dolby encoder and digital delay that gave 100% accurate data with enough delay to match the output from the encoder in time. We then subtracted one output from the other. What remained was just the parts that the computer removed. Every person in that room who was experienced in recording was shocked. What we heard was a bunch of subtle subtextures, such as room echos and other audible cues that no experienced recordist would want left out of their carefully crafted mix. In other words, such schemes will never give you an exact copy of your CD.

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but...

This of course is unsurprising, especially if you're talking the ultra low 384 kbps 6 channel Dolby. At the standard Dolby rates, stereo takes up all of 128 kbps. As I've said above, MP3 at that rate using any MP3 codec is just unacceptable. I think DD uses up to 192 for stereo, but still... However, regardless of this fact I have not seen a blinded study proving that it would be noticeable even to most trained ears if higher bit rates and proper settings were used. It's definitely irritating knowing that lossy compression algorithms are imperfect, but in real life it may be irrelevant. (Just playing the devil's advocate here.) The whole point is that we are not making archival material with these convenience formats.
 

kami

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
17,627
5
81
I'll second DFX. I have DFX 3.3 and it's the shit. Best thing is, when you write wav files to burn on CDs you can use the plugin too.
 

Napalm381

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,724
0
0
Eug makes a good point that with most computer soundcards and speakers, it would be virtually impossible to discern the difference between a high quality MP3 and CD audio. On the other hand, comparing an MP3 played through my soundcard doesn't compare remotely to a CD on a standalone Sony CD player, even through the same high quality stereo speakers.
 

BlkDragon6

Senior member
Jan 7, 2000
270
0
0
Quite honestly I can say that I cannot hear the difference between 128 mp3s and Cd audio, and yes, I have listened to both formats of the same song. I think a lot of it is people psyching themselves out (yeah.. I think I hear a difference.. yeah.. oh yeah, for sure there is a difference.. hint hint). I play my mp3's loud and it sounds fine, probably 'cause I have really nice speakers hooked up to my computer and cd player. But hey, maybe my ears are tweaked and I'm just extremely lucky.

As for Napster downloads, never had a problem. Once in awhile I'll run into one that was cut off short, but hey.. download from the next person.

Anyways, just my spare change.
 

Sacotool

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2000
2,877
0
0
What's it mean when you see the frequency change from 128 to 160 back and forth? Sometimes the song sounds tolerable
 

FrontlineWarrior

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2000
4,905
1
0
jeez you guys have sensitive ears. me use fraunhofer. it sound good. 90% bad on napster? you must have bad luck bro.
 

Warrenton

Banned
Aug 7, 2000
777
0
0
I guess I fail.. because what the encoder leaves out sounds like static, thats all, hardly any of the beats or rythmn is left in it. Its just wavering static. And when I try to encode that stuff to upload it, well the output is silent.

So my conclusion is that at 192, what it left out is not that important anyway. I mean its important, but for me, its not worth worrying over. Especially since most music I listen to was recorden in the 1950 and early 1960s...
 

pen^2

Banned
Apr 1, 2000
2,845
0
0
harvey, an OT question for ya! what is your take on klipsh promedia vs. midiland s2 4100? jus wanted to hear your input
 

Imannewbie

Junior Member
Sep 6, 2000
14
0
0
I'm Totally Agree with RSI

MP3 sounds so bad at whatever bitrate compare to CDs

That's why I don't have any MP3 in my computer at all.

I just buy CDs.

but I raely use my computer to play CDs, I use my PLaystation2 + Onkyo TX-DS989 + Bose AM15 + Extra 2 Speakers when I listen to CDs.

It's just so great that don't even think of using MP3 to compare with it.
 
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