Why is LSD illegal?

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Ns1

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Ns1
Nobody made a comment on rosetta stoned?

it's the perfect LSD song

never liked LSD
ill stick to schooms and dried cacti

Same premise, really

yea i found that they were more mellow and less intense then lsd and much more my kinda ride

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: JackMDS
When One loses a leg, One knows that the leg is Not growing up again. But when people do things that damage the brain they do not see the damages, so ?out of sight out of mind? they think that everything is an OK. The main reason that Drugs makes One feel they way they do when taken is because they alter Brain Neurochemistry, and thus create an illusionary states.

This isn't true at all. People who rely on drugs know they have a problem, because the majority of drug addictions are caused by severe depression. Upwards of 50% of alcoholics have clinical depression, and they use alcohol in an attempt to self-medicate. They'll only deny they have a problem if you ask the wrong question.

Example:
Q: Is alcohol a problem in your life?
A: No, because alcohol is seen as the solution to depression

Q: Is depression a problem in your life?
A: Yes, that's why they have problems with drug abuse (duh)

These types of drugs have the very High potential to alter the Neurotransmitters, and they would stay way. I.e. altered.

This is true for maybe 1% of cases, if you round up.

Example:
Alcohol increases the level of GABA in your brain. GABA is a transmitter responsible for controlling what can almost be described as your brain's operating range; people with bipolar disorder have abnormally low levels of GABA, and that's why their behavior is so wild and unpredictable. People who binge drink on weekends generally do not see any long-term change in their brain chemistry, even though they are heavy users of alcohol. The only people who have brain problems caused by alcohol are people who stay intoxicated over a long period of time. Your brain gets lazy and stops controlling GABA by itself. When an alcoholic stops drinking, the brain now has abnormally low levels of GABA. This low level of GABA is why alcoholics can have seizures and sometimes even die when they try to stop drinking. This severe damage to the GABA system in your brain only happens if you stay intoxicated for a long period of time, and the damage is greater when the sustained level of intoxication is higher.

Methamphetamine does this same kind of damage to your dopamine system.
Extacy does this kind of damage to your serotonin system.

Again, it only happens if you keep taking alcohol, meth, or extacy in high doses over a long period of time. Those white trash people you see on Cops probably have severe brain damage from alcohol and meth. The average guy hanging out at the bar on a friday does not have brain damage caused by drinking, and your son taking Adderall will likely not have any brain damage from that either.

When taken there is always physiological outcome whether One can see it or Not. People that are knowledgeable and experience in work with people that acquire Brain Injuries can spot a person that does this stuff very easily even when the person is Not "high".

Roughly 7% of children in the US are on amphetamine (Adderall), and I really doubt you could pick them out in a crowd. Some kids stand out when they stare at nothing with a blank face, but you can't easily pick which 7 kids in a group of 100 are on amphetamine, because their behavior is similar to that of people who already have strange behavior. A kid is acting withdrawn, as if he's not part of the group. Is he on Adderall, or is he just shy? That hyper kid who likes to talk. Is he on Ritalin, or is he just naturally like that? That kid who mumbles, is he drunk or is he just lazy? The kid who talks about lions and tigers, is he hallucinating on Paxil (common side-effect), or does he just have a good imagination?

Schizophrenia?s Brain Neurochemistry has a chemical structure similar to LSD

This is off. Schizophrenia is caused by abnormally high levels of dopamine in the brain, and it is very reproducible in controlled conditions. Here is a youtube video showing what "amphetamine psychosis" looks like, which is basically the same as schizophrenia (incredibly high dopamine levels). People who are going through amphetamine psychosis are extremely dangerous because they are very motivated, and they will do drastic things to overcome imagined problems. If they think you're a zombie, they're as likely to run as they are to kill you.

LSD has its own kind of temporary psychosis, but it's a very passive one. People on LSD are generally not dangerous because LSD causes a more relaxed high, similar to marijuana. You might freak out, but you won't hurt anyone other than yourself.

There are many cases of people that became permanent Schizophrenic from one doze of LCD; others needed more ?Trips? to permanently alter the system.

That's called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. You see the exact same thing in Vietnam war veterans, or people who have had other traumatic experiences like being raped.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Nitemare
We live in a repressive society?

Help, help, I'm bein' repressed!

What business is it of the state on what you do behind closed doors(to yourself or with other consenting adults)?

That's why I live in an anarcho-syndicalist commune.

 

[Alistar7]

Never had a bad trip in 50+ journeys and have used the following: liquid acid, paper acid, liquid laced sugar cubes, mushrooms, & mescaline (man made peyote). The best was the mescaline, the softer, entire body/sensory encompassing psychedelic effects of shrooms combined with the mental magic of LSD. I also came down very soft as I did on shrooms, and still experienced light, pleasant effects the next day. Shrooms a close second, hard to beat mother nature. It's all mental, and far too enjoyable to waste on a "bad trip".

MJ made illegal due to Mexican immigrants, hhhhmmmm, not even close but

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Never had a bad trip in 50+ journeys and have used the following: liquid acid, paper acid, liquid laced sugar cubes, mushrooms, & mescaline (man made peyote). The best was the mescaline, the softer, entire body/sensory encompassing psychedelic effects of shrooms combined with the mental magic of LSD. I also came down very soft as I did on shrooms, and still experienced light, pleasant effects the next day. Shrooms a close second, hard to beat mother nature. It's all mental, and far too enjoyable to waste on a "bad trip".

MJ made illegal due to Mexican immigrants, hhhhmmmm, not even close but

Actually combining them is quite fun. Mescaline + Shrooms = one hella fun trip.

 

[I Saw OJ]

Because they saw that video of that cat tripping on LSD and got freaked out.

 

[ShawnD1]

LSD tested on British soldiers

"almost immediately the section commander tried to use a map to find the location of troop headquarters, and a prisoners escort had to have the way pointed out to him although it was in plain sight, 700 yards away, over open country"

 

[mitchel]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
LSD tested on British soldiers

"almost immediately the section commander tried to use a map to find the location of troop headquarters, and a prisoners escort had to have the way pointed out to him although it was in plain sight, 700 yards away, over open country"

Lol that's like an advertisement for recreational LSD use.

 

[JackMDS]

ShawnD1

I have few of peer reviewed scientific publications on PTSD, and it some thing totally different than what we discuss here.

As for the Rest of the post.

Let me give you real examples that I came across.

Client 1, minor Brain Injury in the left side of the Brain.

Profession, Professor of literature.

Result, cannot go to work because of Mild Verbal processing "quirkiness? due to left hemispheric damage.

Client 2, minor Brain Injury in the right side.

Profession, Auto Mechanic specializing in High tech. Carburetors.

Result, cannot go to work because of difficulties in processing Spatial Relations due to right hemispheric damage.

Should the situation be reversed (and I saw similar cases like this) the physiological outcome would be the same but the people could resume normal working life.

I.e. with minor right hemispheric problem you can perform well a Job that is up to Left Hemispheric skills and vice versa.

In other words, functional reality (which is what most people judge by and report) can be different in different people even if the objective Brain Malfunction is the same.

As far as I know almost all heavy drinkers eventually get a form of head Injury too, the difference is that with Alcohol it takes much longer time while with hard core drugs can do it in a matter of days/weeks.

Many people would not realize that they suffer from reduced intellectual functioning due to Alcohol and drug abuse because whatever they do in live does not necessitate high level of intellectual functions to begin with

In case of Alcohol most people associate the reduction of mental capacity with age and retire from high level jobs not being aware that their reduced cognition is in big parts a result of life time abuse of Alcohol.

Many young people that do drug and Alcohol might end up with low level employment and lesser level of education, claiming that that is what they feel comfortable with, and not knowing that they abused their cognitive system by drinking and doing drugs. I.e. in young people substance abuse is one of the major agent in reducing long term potential for successful life.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: JackMDS
Many young people that do drug and Alcohol might end up with low level employment and lesser level of education, claiming that that is what they feel comfortable with, and not knowing that they abused their cognitive system by drinking and doing drugs. I.e. in young people substance abuse is one of the major agent in reducing long term potential for successful life.

There's some truth to what you're saying, but it's also true that the biggest user group for amphetamine, not including gay men as a group, is college students.

http://media.www.loyolagreyhou....The.Rise-780786.shtml

The amphetamines, Ritalin and Adderall, are used illegally to enhance studying by as many as 20 percent of college students nationwide, according to a study published in The Johns Hopkins News-Letter in November 2002.

They're taking amphetamine because it's essentially cheating. I attribute a significant portion of my college degree to the incredibly high caffeine consumption I had during that time, which is not all that different from Adderall and ephedrine that classmates were taking. On the flip side of that, some people drink alcohol on weekends in order to stay relaxed and more mentally stable for the rest of the week, and that works really good for some people. As soon as college is over, binge drinking and amphetamine use drops off because they are no longer useful.

Most people I know have done drugs, and most of them are normal people. I only know of 1 exception, a fat guy who did meth for a few years. He's as stupid now as he ever was, and he's still friendly, but he constantly makes up stories. We'll call him on it every time he does it, and he never stops. It's like he'll dream something, think the dream was real, then tell everyone that his dream really happened.
The only reason I think that's caused by his drug use is because I saw a video on youtube where a guy was saying some crazy story about meeting george clooney on his birthday and playing guitar with led zeppelin, and the text on the video said something to the effect of "he makes up stories like this all the time, ever since he started doing meth". The guy was acting exactly like meth-friend, and the youtube video said meth caused it, so....

 

[DoubleROFL]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V4K7FepKw4

 

[Muse]

Originally it was not illegal, and I was paying close attention back then. It was only a matter of time before legislation was coming. Back in the 1960's (early 60's) LSD was being investigated by cognoscenti such as Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert at Harvard University. I believe they were psychology professors, and they published the Psychedelic Review, a periodical. I got copies and read with great interest. At that time, it was NOT illegal. A few years later it was. By that time it was somewhat popular in the hippie culture. Leary and Alpert were well aware that there were alternative drugs, and there are many, but the ones that they focused on were peyote (and the derivative mescaline) and psylocibin (the mushrooms and derivative compound).

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Because it allows you to see how the man is fucking you over. Can't have any of that.

and that goes for pot too.

Originally posted by: Ns1

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel

Originally posted by: Ns1
lsd is not for the noobish.

I never worked up the guts to try it. Heard a few nightmare stories of trips gone crazy. Can a bad trip actually scar you (psychologically) for life?

Never happened to me, but look at Syd Barret.


On a semi related note, I somewhat bad tripped once. I was really into Pink Floyd at the time, and I somehow convinced myself that I was Syd Barret, gone completely insane and to remain that way for the rest of my life.

I should've listened to myself the first time I said "just go to sleep and everything will be fine in the morning"


LSD is definitely not some newbie shit.

Syd Barret abused LSD. He took it way too casually, way way too often. It's not a drug you want to take lightly. Like has been posted above, you should really have a spotter, especially if you are inexperienced: a setting you feel secure in, with people you trust, preferably with some beautiful things around you. IMO, only an idiot would take it daily or even weekly.

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Hyperlite

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel

Originally posted by: Ns1
lsd is not for the noobish.

I never worked up the guts to try it. Heard a few nightmare stories of trips gone crazy. Can a bad trip actually scar you (psychologically) for life?

Not for any normal person.

When the government was doing research on the subject, the doses required to fsck someones mind over were mind boggling. Nobody would ever do that much at once on their own.

There is no logical reason LSD is illegal, just like there is no logical reason marijuana is illegal.

Granted, LSD shouldn't be compared to marijuana, but it is arguably just as safe. It isn't going to kill you. It's not addictive. I've never heard of an LSD junkie. You just don't do that.

It has a strange "hard drug" stigma around it with most people. Many of the same people have no problems with mushrooms, though. Even though LSD is more intense than mushrooms, its certainly in the same vein.

LSD isn't something people do just to get fucked up on a whim, like you can with marijuana or alcohol. It tends to be more planned out and purposeful.

IT isn't going to kill you, but the argument is that what you might do while on it could kill you.

I dunno. I guess.

I'm always completely lucid, aware of my surroundings and my actions when I trip, but I do understand that not everyone is like this.

Same problem with alcohol, or really any other drug though....

You probably don't take very high doses if you remain completely lucid the whole time. Back in the early 1960's, Leary and Alpert were experimenting with higher doses, around 400 micrograms. At doses like that you want a controlled environment, or so they maintained, because you are going to hallucinate in a major way. An LCD trip like that lasts around 8 hours.

 

[JackMDS]

A simple exercise in reality can be done by looking at the nature of most of the Posts in this thread and finding the combination of the Defenses used by the posters uniqoe way of dealing with the issues of drug abuse..

Categorization of Defense Mechanisms

Level 1 Defense Mechanisms
? Denial: Refusal to accept external reality because it is too threatening; arguing against an anxiety provoking stimuli by stating it doesn't exist; resolution of emotional conflict and reduce anxiety by refusing to perceive or consciously acknowledge the more unpleasant aspects of external reality.
? Distortion: A gross reshaping of external reality to meet internal needs.
? Delusional Projection: Grossly frank delusions about external reality, usually of a persecutory nature.

Level 2 Defense Mechanisms
These include:
? Fantasy: Tendency to retreat into fantasy in order to resolve inner and outer conflicts
? Projection: Projection is a primitive form of paranoia. Projection also reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the undesirable impulses or desires without becoming consciously aware of them; attributing one's own unacknowledged unacceptable/unwanted thoughts and emotions to another; includes severe prejudice, severe jealousy, hypervigilance to external danger, and "injustice collecting". It is shifting one's unacceptable thoughts, feelings and impulses within oneself onto someone else, such that those same thoughts, feelings, beliefs and motivations as perceived as being possessed by the other.
? Hypochondriasis (a.k.a. somatization): The transformation of negative feelings towards others into negative feelings toward self, pain, illness and anxiety
? Passive aggression: Aggression towards others expressed indirectly or passively
? Acting out: Direct expression of an unconscious wish or impulse without conscious awareness of the emotion that drives that expressive behavior.
? Idealization: Subconsciously choosing to perceive another individual as having more positive qualities than they may actually have.[2]
?
Level 3 Defense Mechanisms
? Displacement: Defense mechanism that shifts sexual or aggressive impulses to a more acceptable or less threatening target; redirecting emotion to a safer outlet; separation of emotion from its real object and redirection of the intense emotion toward someone or something that is less offensive or threatening in order to avoid dealing directly with what is frightening or threatening. For example, a mother may yell at her child because she is angry with her husband.
? Dissociation: Temporary drastic modification of one's personal identity or character to avoid emotional distress; separation or postponement of a feeling that normally would accompany a situation or thought.
? Isolation: Separation of feelings from ideas and events, for example, describing a murder with graphic details with no emotional response.
? Intellectualization: A form of isolation; concentrating on the intellectual components of a situations so as to distance oneself from the associated anxiety-provoking emotions; separation of emotion from ideas; thinking about wishes in formal, affectively bland terms and not acting on them; avoiding unacceptable emotions by focusing on the intellectual aspects (e.g. rationalizations).
? Reaction Formation: Converting unconscious wishes or impulses that are perceived to be dangerous into their opposites; behavior that is completely the opposite of what one really wants or feels; taking the opposite belief because the true belief causes anxiety. This defense can work effectively for coping in the short term, but will eventually break down.
? Repression: Process of pulling thoughts into the unconscious and preventing painful or dangerous thoughts from entering consciousness; seemingly unexplainable naivety, memory lapse or lack of awareness of one's own situation and condition; the emotion is conscious, but the idea behind it is absent.

Level 4 Defense Mechanisms
? Altruism: Constructive service to others that brings pleasure and personal satisfaction
? Anticipation: Realistic planning for future discomfort
? Humor: Overt expression of ideas and feelings (especially those that are unpleasant to focus on or too terrible to talk about) that gives pleasure to others. Humor enables someone to call a spade a spade, while "wit" is a form of displacement (see above under Category 3)
? Identification: The unconscious modeling of one's self upon another person's character and behavior
? Introjection: Identifying with some idea or object so deeply that it becomes a part of that person
? Sublimation: Transformation of negative emotions or instincts into positive actions, behavior, or emotion
? Suppression: The conscious process of pushing thoughts into the preconscious; the conscious decision to delay paying attention to an emotion or need in order to cope with the present reality; able to later access uncomfortable or distressing emotions and accept them.

The above is partial quote from, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_mechanism

 

[RKS]

Originally posted by: JackMDS


... in young people substance abuse is one of the major agent in reducing long term potential for successful life.[/b]

I did a lot of 'stuff' in HS that I would never want my kids to do, many doses of LSD included. Maybe I was supposed to be a genius and the usage brought me down to a 'normal' level of intellectual capacity but I was able to get a professional degree.

Now, it may take me a week to figure out my wireless router settings but I can smell a personal injury from a mile away. :laugh:

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: JackMDS

text

The above is partial quote from, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_mechanism

I'm sorry, I was way too lazy to read it. I might try again when I'm trippin balls.

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: RKS
Now, it may take me a week to figure out my wireless router settings but I can smell a personal injury from a mile away. :laugh:

For Next time. - :thumbsup:

My Wireless does not work - http://www.ezlan.net/wireless.html

Wireless Basic Configuration - http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Config.html

Wireless Security - http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Security.html

 

[GasX]

acid trips blow your mind. for some people it is a near religious experience and for others it is a permanent mind fuck. It's not easy to predict...

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: Mwilding
acid trips blow your mind. for some people it is a near religious experience and for others it is a permanent mind fuck. It's not easy to predict...

Predicting the topic of the trip is possible since it has to do with the person's Emotional status and Cultural needs.

Permanent mind damage cannot be predicted while the person is alive, we have No countable way to evaluate Brain Neurochemistry while people are alive.

There is ways to do it in part during Post-mortem examination. But then it is too late.

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: Ns1

Originally posted by: JackMDS

text

The above is partial quote from, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_mechanism

I'm sorry, I was way too lazy to read it. I might try again when I'm trippin balls.

Sorry it is Not on You tube, yet

 

[schizoid77]

They couldn't control it back in the day, so they just ban it from everyone.

America is like a giant kindergarten class.

Meanwhile, alcohol is legal and kills people on a daily basis.

Oh, wait, let me find which Defense Mechanism I just used.

Gimme a break. America is all about control, not freedom.

 

[deepred98]

Originally posted by: JackMDS
A simple exercise in reality can be done by looking at the nature of most of the Posts in this thread and finding the combination of the Defenses used by the posters uniqoe way of dealing with the issues of drug abuse..

Categorization of Defense Mechanisms


Level 3 Defense Mechanisms
? Displacement: Defense mechanism that shifts sexual or aggressive impulses to a more acceptable or less threatening target; redirecting emotion to a safer outlet; separation of emotion from its real object and redirection of the intense emotion toward someone or something that is less offensive or threatening in order to avoid dealing directly with what is frightening or threatening. For example, a mother may yell at her child because she is angry with her husband.
? Dissociation: Temporary drastic modification of one's personal identity or character to avoid emotional distress; separation or postponement of a feeling that normally would accompany a situation or thought.
? Isolation: Separation of feelings from ideas and events, for example, describing a murder with graphic details with no emotional response.
? Intellectualization: A form of isolation; concentrating on the intellectual components of a situations so as to distance oneself from the associated anxiety-provoking emotions; separation of emotion from ideas; thinking about wishes in formal, affectively bland terms and not acting on them; avoiding unacceptable emotions by focusing on the intellectual aspects (e.g. rationalizations).
? Reaction Formation: Converting unconscious wishes or impulses that are perceived to be dangerous into their opposites; behavior that is completely the opposite of what one really wants or feels; taking the opposite belief because the true belief causes anxiety. This defense can work effectively for coping in the short term, but will eventually break down.
? Repression: Process of pulling thoughts into the unconscious and preventing painful or dangerous thoughts from entering consciousness; seemingly unexplainable naivety, memory lapse or lack of awareness of one's own situation and condition; the emotion is conscious, but the idea behind it is absent.


The above is partial quote from, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_mechanism

I'd say posting a useless wiki link that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand counts as that.

Oh and i'm pretty sure resorting to attacking the posters and "drug abusers" here counts as some other kind of wiki article.

EDIT: to save precious screen space

 

[schizoid77]

Good catch, I usually skip over his/her posts.

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: JackMDS

Originally posted by: Mwilding
acid trips blow your mind. for some people it is a near religious experience and for others it is a permanent mind fuck. It's not easy to predict...

Predicting the topic of the trip is possible since it has to do with the person's Emotional status and Cultural needs.

Permanent mind damage cannot be predicted while the person is alive, we have No countable way to evaluate Brain Neurochemistry while people are alive.

There is ways to do it in part during Post-mortem examination. But then it is too late.

The only time I ever hallucinated, I saw ants building pyramids. I was in a pyramid building mood and needed giant ant overlords?

Predicting the trip is impossible. Good trips can go bad, and bad trips can suddenly turn amazing.

Your posts certainly seem to be following the whole "If you do this, you will die/go crazy/ permanantly get fucked in the head." It's not that at all. Sure there is a chance something bad will happen, but there's a chance of bad things happening at any place, with any activity.

What is your experience with mind altering substances?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Canai

The only time I ever hallucinated, I saw ants building pyramids. I was in a pyramid building mood and needed giant ant overlords?

Predicting the trip is impossible. Good trips can go bad, and bad trips can suddenly turn amazing.

Your posts certainly seem to be following the whole "If you do this, you will die/go crazy/ permanantly get fucked in the head." It's not that at all. Sure there is a chance something bad will happen, but there's a chance of bad things happening at any place, with any activity.

What is your experience with mind altering substances?

That's weird. All the acid I've done there were ALWAYS massive mind blowing hallucinations.

The demons slicing up my flesh and carrying it away to eat in their little group wasn't that fun.