Why is MAC preffered?

[Kilrsat]

Originally posted by: mdchesne

Originally posted by: Kilrsat

Originally posted by: mdchesne
It takes alot of skill to manually decrpyt a password from the bank seeing as no program CAN decrypt a unix-encrypted password.

Apparently you've never heard of John the Ripper. Again, if you don't know much about the subject don't go aroung proclaiming the security aspects of each system.

do you know HOW to decrpyt a mac, linux, unix password? because each password is encrypted using it's own unique process for each system, no one program can decrypt every password. That's why those OSes are so secure. the only way to do it is to access the password bank through root or faking a user account. Then you have to manually enter a whole buttload of random words and try to get the encrypted word to look similar to the encrypted password. Eventually with enough patience and a simple-enough password can you find the password itself. regardless of what you say, it DOES take skill



and yes, i've heard of john the ripper. it's a weak password cracking program. in fact, it even says that itself

"John the Ripper is a fast password cracker, currently available for many flavors of Unix (11 are officially supported, not counting different architectures), DOS, Win32, BeOS, and OpenVMS. Its primary purpose is to detect weak Unix passwords"

if your password is "god" or "root" or "sex", then yes, it can find that simple of encrypted password. hell, i could just by guessing. those are some of the top 20 passwords used. but let that retard of a program try to deencrypt passwords such as m2niKk82/[[1' and see how far it goes before crapping out

Unrestricted physical access to a machine means all security bets are off. Consider all passwords compromised. It doesn't matter what system you're on. I know you're this "hacking expert," but your continued statements prove otherwise. A rainbow table based attack would find even your complex "m2niKk82/[[1'" example in a relatively short amount of time, but of course you knew that. Yes, even John the Ripper would be able to find that password on the majority of default *nix installs given a decent amount of time.

 

[mdchesne]

does anyone even get what i'm saying? or are you simply trying to prove me to not know a lick about security? it seems noone wants to admit windows are less secure than mac, but will instead point out any and all flaws that I missed stating like i'm some f*cking legal document and you're pointing out all the loopholes! if you want a report that closes all the inconsistancies in ym 4-sentence postings here, so be it, but my position stands and i bet more than enough people will agree that mac's deserve better than a 7 on login security

 

[prometheusxls]

Originally posted by: Kilrsat
Unrestricted physical access to a machine means all security bets are off. Consider all passwords compromised. It doesn't matter what system you're on. I know you're this "hacking expert," but your continued statements prove otherwise. A rainbow table based attack would find even your complex "m2niKk82/[[1'" example in a relatively short amount of time, but of course you knew that. Yes, even John the Ripper would be able to find that password on the majority of default *nix installs given a decent amount of time.

This is dead on balls accurate. Any password can be cracked if you want to wait a while. That is why physical security is always the #1 priority. If you let any one off the street come and look over your shoulder it won't matter what encrypytion you have.

IMO the biggest security hole in any buisness lan network is was and always will be the person behind the keyboard.

Mdchesne,

I am sure that there is some difference in security between these OS. This doens't change the fact that any and all can be configured in a secure manner and any and all can be configured unsafely. It is up to you to make sure it is doen right and balance security with access needs.

 

[Nothinman]

ask any 5 year old and they'll tell you how to log in safe mode to get past the standard login window.

Last time I checked safe mode and recovery console both required an admin password.

Since mac is unix-based and uses unix encryption, mac is by far more secure than windows. it's not uncrackable, but it is better than a meesly 7 on that chart. windows should be mroe like a 5

Technically NTLM encrypted passwords are more secure than most unixes because a lot of unixes default to plain old DES, on most unixes you have explicitly enabled the shadow file and MD5 password hashing.

It takes alot of skill to manually decrpyt a password from the bank seeing as no program CAN decrypt a unix-encrypted password.

No program can decrypt Windows NTLM passwords either.

if your password is "god" or "root" or "sex", then yes, it can find that simple of encrypted password. hell, i could just by guessing. those are some of the top 20 passwords used. but let that retard of a program try to deencrypt passwords such as m2niKk82/[[1' and see how far it goes before crapping out

It won't crap out, it will crack that password eventually too, it just takes a lot longer.

but my position stands and i bet more than enough people will agree that mac's deserve better than a 7 on login security

Not really, all you have to do is hold down the S key during post and it'll boot into single user mode without requiring any passwords. Now that's secure.

 

[Sunbird]

I would ask the professor, "prefered by whom?"

Since I hardware enthusiast couldn't enjoy Mac OS by istalling it on his new built rig, he won't enjoy it and wont see benefits or prefer it in any way.

Now for other uses I'm sure a Mac would be good since no spyware and such.

So go ask your prof who these hypothetical people that prefer it are, so you can answer him.

(I :heart: arguing with my stupid, vague professors.)

 

[Kevin]

Some / Many websites "require" IE and IE is nolonger supported for MAC.

Thats not the OS fault, its the fault of the web designer who failed to follow standards...

 

[wpd7]

Well, technically if you have the original OS discs or compatible OS discs from Apple for the specific machine, you can boot of the CD, use the password utility on the CD to change 1) the OpenFirmware Password; and 2) any password on the machine, including root and administrator level passwords.

Try it out.

This is for informational purposes only- I do not condone doing any of the above on any Mac you do not own, especially if you dont know what you're doing.

 

[daniel49]

macs are preferred by musicians, graphics people and school teachers.
educational system is skewed because of all the free macs they recieved.

only advantages I can think of is fewer people hate it enough to write virus programs for it.

software selection is crappy.

some view it as simplier to operate but I can't say I would agree with that I think its just a matter of what your used to. Kinda like the way so many americans ( esp older ones resist learning the metric system) Many resist learning how to become competant in windows.

 

[stash]

because there are more options to get past windows than mac supports my initial claim that windows IS NOT more secure on lgin security than mac. to expand this, would you also support the idea that windows is more secure on login than a unix terminal? of course not, that's why anyone who's intelligent will uses a unix network

What the hell are you talking about? Anyone who is intelligent runs a network that does exactly what they want, whether it be Unix, Windows, Mac, or whatever else. But thanks for insulting the intelligence of Windows users around the world, many of whom know far more than you have indicated in this thread.

edit: by the way, you tend you use credibility when you use terms like M$ and Winblows, along with posting your entire computer setup, when this forum has tools specifically designed to avoid that.

 

[mdchesne]

Originally posted by: STaSh

because there are more options to get past windows than mac supports my initial claim that windows IS NOT more secure on lgin security than mac. to expand this, would you also support the idea that windows is more secure on login than a unix terminal? of course not, that's why anyone who's intelligent will uses a unix network

What the hell are you talking about? Anyone who is intelligent runs a network that does exactly what they want, whether it be Unix, Windows, Mac, or whatever else. But thanks for insulting the intelligence of Windows users around the world, many of whom know far more than you have indicated in this thread.

edit: by the way, you tend you use credibility when you use terms like M$ and Winblows, along with posting your entire computer setup, when this forum has tools specifically designed to avoid that.

how many major networks run on windows? less than unix. so before you tear on people, learn a little

 

[stash]

how many major networks run on windows? less than unix. so before you tear on people, learn a little

Define major. Some of the largest Active Directory deployments in the world are comprised of thousands of domain controllers across hundreds of physical sites and 10s of thousands of users. There are quite a few major world wide companies running Active Directories of this size. Are they exclusively Windows? Of course not.

Every branch of the US government and hundreds of government agencies run Windows. Every branch of the military runs Windows. Do they exclusively run Windows? No. But I would consider these 'major' networks.

Also, since I have supported and consulted for a fair amount of these environments, I think I can comment on these networks with some accuracy. Of course, I'm always learning, always trying to gather more knowledge. But I think I've learned a little. I'm not trying to flame you, but your statements are uninformed and incorrect. My comments are not personal.

 

[Nothinman]

how many major networks run on windows? less than unix. so before you tear on people, learn a little

Huh? Most major networks, and most minor networks and all in between, have an extremely large number of Window boxes. To do anything with MS' recent stuff you need AD setup so there goes internal LDAP, DNS and probably DHCP to Windows at least in part.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: Kilrsat

Originally posted by: mdchesne

Originally posted by: Kilrsat

Originally posted by: mdchesne
It takes alot of skill to manually decrpyt a password from the bank seeing as no program CAN decrypt a unix-encrypted password.

Apparently you've never heard of John the Ripper. Again, if you don't know much about the subject don't go aroung proclaiming the security aspects of each system.

do you know HOW to decrpyt a mac, linux, unix password? because each password is encrypted using it's own unique process for each system, no one program can decrypt every password. That's why those OSes are so secure. the only way to do it is to access the password bank through root or faking a user account. Then you have to manually enter a whole buttload of random words and try to get the encrypted word to look similar to the encrypted password. Eventually with enough patience and a simple-enough password can you find the password itself. regardless of what you say, it DOES take skill



and yes, i've heard of john the ripper. it's a weak password cracking program. in fact, it even says that itself

"John the Ripper is a fast password cracker, currently available for many flavors of Unix (11 are officially supported, not counting different architectures), DOS, Win32, BeOS, and OpenVMS. Its primary purpose is to detect weak Unix passwords"

if your password is "god" or "root" or "sex", then yes, it can find that simple of encrypted password. hell, i could just by guessing. those are some of the top 20 passwords used. but let that retard of a program try to deencrypt passwords such as m2niKk82/[[1' and see how far it goes before crapping out

Unrestricted physical access to a machine means all security bets are off. Consider all passwords compromised. It doesn't matter what system you're on. I know you're this "hacking expert," but your continued statements prove otherwise. A rainbow table based attack would find even your complex "m2niKk82/[[1'" example in a relatively short amount of time, but of course you knew that. Yes, even John the Ripper would be able to find that password on the majority of default *nix installs given a decent amount of time.

The only way John the Ripper (aka Opener) can infect the Mac is if some idiot allowed John the Ripper to be installed on your computer. Before you can install ANY app on the Mac, it asks for the administrator password. And John the Ripper cannot infect the Mac without someone actually giving it permission to install on the computer.

Interesting read on John the Ripper.

 

[Beaks]

Originally posted by: STaSh

because there are more options to get past windows than mac supports my initial claim that windows IS NOT more secure on lgin security than mac. to expand this, would you also support the idea that windows is more secure on login than a unix terminal? of course not, that's why anyone who's intelligent will uses a unix network

What the hell are you talking about? Anyone who is intelligent runs a network that does exactly what they want, whether it be Unix, Windows, Mac, or whatever else. But thanks for insulting the intelligence of Windows users around the world, many of whom know far more than you have indicated in this thread.

edit: by the way, you tend you use credibility when you use terms like M$ and Winblows, along with posting your entire computer setup, when this forum has tools specifically designed to avoid that.

http://www.commercialventvac.com/~jeffs/WindowsVsLinuxSecurity.html

Look at any in depth comparison in security between windows and unix systems and the majority will always say unix has the edge, using windows doesn't insult the intelligence of users as it has its advantages as well, but a duel boot system seems to be a good playoff between the 2 systems, as you can utilise the strengths of both.

 

[Nothinman]

The only way John the Ripper (aka Opener) can infect the Mac is if some idiot allowed John the Ripper to be installed on your computer. Before you can install ANY app on the Mac, it asks for the administrator password. And John the Ripper cannot infect the Mac without someone actually giving it permission to install on the computer.

Interesting read on John the Ripper.

John the Ripper isn't a virus, it doesn't infect anything and your article doesn't even seem to mention john.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

The only way John the Ripper (aka Opener) can infect the Mac is if some idiot allowed John the Ripper to be installed on your computer. Before you can install ANY app on the Mac, it asks for the administrator password. And John the Ripper cannot infect the Mac without someone actually giving it permission to install on the computer.

Interesting read on John the Ripper.

John the Ripper isn't a virus, it doesn't infect anything and your article doesn't even seem to mention john.

John the Ripper is aka Opener.

If you had John, then under the Activity Monitor, a process called "john" is eating up processes.

Link

List of what "John the Ripper does."

* Opener tries to install ohphoneX, a teleconferencing program - for spying on you through your webcam I'm sure.
* It kills LittleSnitch before every Internet connection it makes
* It installs a keystroke recorder
* Allows backdoor access in case someone deletes the hidden account
* Grabs the open-firmware password
* Installs OSXvnc
* Grabs your office 2004 PID (serial number), as well as serial numbers for Mac OS XServer, adobe registrations, VirtualPC 6, Final Cut Pro, LittleSnitch, Apple Pro Apps, your DynDNS account, Timbuk2, and webserver users to name a few.
* It tries to decrypts all the MD5 encrypted user passwords
* Decrypts all users keychains.
* Grabs your AIM logs, and tons of other settings and preferences with info you probably don't want folks to have... even your bash (terminal) history
* Grabs stuff from your Classic preferences
* Changes your Limewire settings to max out your upload and files.
* The hidden user account is called LDAP-daemon instead of the name hacker used in earlier versions. Looks more innocent than hacker.
* Even has your daily cron task try to get your password from the virtual memory swapfile
* It installs an app called John The Ripper - a password cracker that uses a dictionary method to crack passwords
* installs dsniff to sniff for passwords...

 

[stash]

Look at any in depth comparison in security between windows and unix systems and the majority will always say unix has the edge

Interesting link, now check out mine: http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCo...814_2005-04-04_19-10-21_n016430_newsml

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

Originally posted by: Nothinman

The only way John the Ripper (aka Opener) can infect the Mac is if some idiot allowed John the Ripper to be installed on your computer. Before you can install ANY app on the Mac, it asks for the administrator password. And John the Ripper cannot infect the Mac without someone actually giving it permission to install on the computer.

Interesting read on John the Ripper.

John the Ripper isn't a virus, it doesn't infect anything and your article doesn't even seem to mention john.

John the Ripper is aka Opener.

If you had John, then under the Activity Monitor, a process called "john" is eating up processes.

Link

List of what "John the Ripper does."

* Opener tries to install ohphoneX, a teleconferencing program - for spying on you through your webcam I'm sure.
* It kills LittleSnitch before every Internet connection it makes
* It installs a keystroke recorder
* Allows backdoor access in case someone deletes the hidden account
* Grabs the open-firmware password
* Installs OSXvnc
* Grabs your office 2004 PID (serial number), as well as serial numbers for Mac OS XServer, adobe registrations, VirtualPC 6, Final Cut Pro, LittleSnitch, Apple Pro Apps, your DynDNS account, Timbuk2, and webserver users to name a few.
* It tries to decrypts all the MD5 encrypted user passwords
* Decrypts all users keychains.
* Grabs your AIM logs, and tons of other settings and preferences with info you probably don't want folks to have... even your bash (terminal) history
* Grabs stuff from your Classic preferences
* Changes your Limewire settings to max out your upload and files.
* The hidden user account is called LDAP-daemon instead of the name hacker used in earlier versions. Looks more innocent than hacker.
* Even has your daily cron task try to get your password from the virtual memory swapfile
* It installs an app called John The Ripper - a password cracker that uses a dictionary method to crack passwords
* installs dsniff to sniff for passwords...

John the ripper installs itself? You don't need to install anything for j-t-r to work, you just need the encrypted passwords which you can then take away to another machine to crack.

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: STaSh

Look at any in depth comparison in security between windows and unix systems and the majority will always say unix has the edge

Interesting link, now check out mine: http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCo...814_2005-04-04_19-10-21_n016430_newsml

Kudos for having the restraint not to link one of those microsoft-funded studies

 

[cleverhandle]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
John the Ripper is aka Opener.

If you had John, then under the Activity Monitor, a process called "john" is eating up processes.

Link

List of what "John the Ripper does." ...

John the Ripper is ancient. It easily predates Opener as well as most of the apps that Opener has anything to do with. It's a simple password cracker - you feed it a bunch of hashes and it tries to find passwords that create those hashes. And as stated, there's no need to "install" it - generally someone would swipe the file containing your hashes (/etc/shadow these days) and run it on their own machines.

Anybody with even a cursory understanding of Unix security knows this. Stop talking smack.

 

[Nothinman]

John the Ripper is aka Opener.

Um, no. Opener is a trojan for OS X which just happens to include John the Ripper. If we followed your logic that would mean that VNC is also a trojan called Opener.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: cleverhandle

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
John the Ripper is aka Opener.

If you had John, then under the Activity Monitor, a process called "john" is eating up processes.

Link

List of what "John the Ripper does." ...

John the Ripper is ancient. It easily predates Opener as well as most of the apps that Opener has anything to do with. It's a simple password cracker - you feed it a bunch of hashes and it tries to find passwords that create those hashes. And as stated, there's no need to "install" it - generally someone would swipe the file containing your hashes (/etc/shadow these days) and run it on their own machines.

Anybody with even a cursory understanding of Unix security knows this. Stop talking smack.

How am I talking smack? Care to explain? I am only quoting what I read.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

John the Ripper is aka Opener.

Um, no. Opener is a trojan for OS X which just happens to include John the Ripper. If we followed your logic that would mean that VNC is also a trojan called Opener.

And VNC happens to install John the Ripper? And VNC does every single thing that Opener does?

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

Originally posted by: Nothinman

John the Ripper is aka Opener.

Um, no. Opener is a trojan for OS X which just happens to include John the Ripper. If we followed your logic that would mean that VNC is also a trojan called Opener.

And VNC happens to install John the Ripper? And VNC does every single thing that Opener does?

No, and that's the point. Opener installs JtR, not the other way around like how you were describing it. Opener is not JtR.

 

[Nothinman]

And VNC happens to install John the Ripper? And VNC does every single thing that Opener does?

Of course not and and John doesn't do everything Opener does either. How about you go back and read the page again, slower this time.