Why is male rape such a controversial topic?

[Leros]

Originally posted by: eilute

Where did you hear this? If you do studies on rape, rape culture, etc - you'll come to find that almost half of all women will be forced to have sex without consent in their lives (IE - RAPED).

I thought it was one in eight.

ive heard 1 in 4.

 

[joshw10]

Originally posted by: JToxic

Originally posted by: eilute

Where did you hear this? If you do studies on rape, rape culture, etc - you'll come to find that almost half of all women will be forced to have sex without consent in their lives (IE - RAPED).

I thought it was one in eight.

ive heard 1 in 4.

i heard 2 out of every 1 gets raped

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
"by that cute girl "

"an actual, desirable female."

But you weren't thinking of sex and I was never 11. The understanding I offered you won't find in a dictionary. And what, by the way is the understood noun of the sentence, F@ck you.

Hey, does anybody but me know? Maybe I can check.

Actually, I think implied subject is "you", not "I". The phrase is short for, "Go fvck yourself!"

Oh man, you don't know how to swear. I f@ck you is where it's at, man, can't you feel that in your bones. I'm the boy and you are the girl. I mount you like my dog is wont to do when he tells the neighbor dog who's boss. I am top dog cause I f@ck you. It's the connection between sex and aggression. Please please, don't go f@ck yourself. I will do that for you. You'll be way too damn gentle.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
"by that cute girl "

"an actual, desirable female."

But you weren't thinking of sex and I was never 11.

I was thinking as much about sex when I told her "Fvck you!" as I was when I asked her if I could borrow her pencil, or what answer she'd gotten on problem 17, or when I just looked at her. It was a constant. If anything, that same irritation that inspired my expletive REDUCED the sexual undertones: disharmony is not conducive to arousal.

Getting irritated at her and saying the magic words didn't suddenly transform my mindset or focus my thoughts, any more than calling her an a-hole would indicate that I was suddenly entering an anal frame of mind.

And your argument undermines itself: You are saying that my attraction to the girl inspired the expletive. But if it's sexual attraction that inspires such phrases, how do you explain my uttering that same phrase at age 23 to a potbellied, 65-year-old male moron under completely different circumstances? A desire to sexually dominate that jerk? YECH!!!

I realize that you have a focus on early childhood and the subconscious. That's great, especially if it helps you make sense of the universe. But all theories have their limits, and I think you are over-applying yours here. Sometimes a cigar IS just a cigar. Sometimes (even often) a "Fvck you!" is just a "Fvck you!" and not a message from the loins.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: eilute

Where did you hear this? If you do studies on rape, rape culture, etc - you'll come to find that almost half of all women will be forced to have sex without consent in their lives (IE - RAPED).

I thought it was one in eight.

it might depend on the country you're looking at.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: 2cpuminimum
FYI, in the majority of rapes, the victim is male. The majority of rape victims are female. This is because the majority of rapes occur in prison.

Prove it.

More than 70% of all the US inmates got raped at least once. Lots of statistics on government and academic websites. The inmate conditions in the US are among the worst in any developed country.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Tango

More than 70% of all the US inmates got raped at least once. Lots of statistics on government and academic websites. The inmate conditions in the US are among the worst in any developed country.

70%?

"Research carried out by Cindy Struckman-Johnson and David Struckman-Johnson of the University of South Dakota has found that 22% - 25% of male prisoners in the United States had been the victim of sexual assault, 10% of rape, and 6% of gang rape. Women prisoners are especially vulnerable to assault by guards and other staff members, and the incidence in the United States has been denounced by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch."

I also challenge the conditions of inmates as being the worst in any developed country. They may be bad, but Australia's prison camps for refugees are much worse. I would not be surprised if refugees in European detention centers are treated worse.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I also challenge the conditions of inmates as being the worst in any developed country. They may be bad, but Australia's prison camps for refugees are much worse.

Much worse? lol, maybe you'd like to provide some proof of that. Link, please.

I also wonder why you are comparing a jail with a detention center for so-called 'illegal immigrants'. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
"by that cute girl "

"an actual, desirable female."

But you weren't thinking of sex and I was never 11. The understanding I offered you won't find in a dictionary. And what, by the way is the understood noun of the sentence, F@ck you.

Hey, does anybody but me know? Maybe I can check.

Actually, I think implied subject is "you", not "I". The phrase is short for, "Go fvck yourself!"

Oh man, you don't know how to swear. I f@ck you is where it's at, man, can't you feel that in your bones. I'm the boy and you are the girl. I mount you like my dog is wont to do when he tells the neighbor dog who's boss. I am top dog cause I f@ck you. It's the connection between sex and aggression. Please please, don't go f@ck yourself. I will do that for you. You'll be way too damn gentle.

Maybe that's my problem - too gentle. No alpha male here.

But, really, when I say "Fvck you!" (and in my entire life, I've probably uttered that phrase fewer than 10 times), I'm telling THEM to do something. I'm not telling them what I can or will do.

Think about it this way: You are so outraged by someone, you want to tell them off. But you are required to say either "Go fvck yourself!" or "I fvck you!" Which of those curses "feels" more right? I can totally imagine using the former. It is impossible for me to imagine using the latter or any linguistic equivalent.

I'm not trying to tell them about some action I can or will do to them. I'm dismissing them!

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
"by that cute girl "

"an actual, desirable female."

But you weren't thinking of sex and I was never 11. The understanding I offered you won't find in a dictionary. And what, by the way is the understood noun of the sentence, F@ck you.

Hey, does anybody but me know? Maybe I can check.

Actually, I think implied subject is "you", not "I". The phrase is short for, "Go fvck yourself!"

Oh man, you don't know how to swear. I f@ck you is where it's at, man, can't you feel that in your bones. I'm the boy and you are the girl. I mount you like my dog is wont to do when he tells the neighbor dog who's boss. I am top dog cause I f@ck you. It's the connection between sex and aggression. Please please, don't go f@ck yourself. I will do that for you. You'll be way too damn gentle.

Maybe that's my problem - too gentle. No alpha male here.

But, really, when I say "Fvck you!" (and in my entire life, I've probably uttered that phrase fewer than 10 times), I'm telling THEM to do something. I'm not telling them what I can or will do.

Think about it this way: You are so outraged by someone, you want to tell them off. But you are required to say either "Go fvck yourself!" or "I fvck you!" Which of those curses "feels" more right? I can totally imagine using the former. It is impossible for me to imagine using the latter or any linguistic equivalent.

I'm not trying to tell them about some action I can or will do to them. I'm dismissing them!

Hehe, OK, you can be on top. What you intended to say is what you intended to say. But I will continue to believe that the term FU derives its power from the close relation between aggression and sex. It's sort of like thumping your chest. You don't have to know you are a chimp to be one, you know. We have an animal nature that is below our easy direct perception because it's the water of our being. Maybe electroencephalograms of the sexually aggressive chimp and the human explicative expresser regarding the areas of the brain that light up will shed more light on this matter. Sex and dominance is easy to see in animals and we are animals. I appreciate your spirited defense. I don't win via forcibly persuading you. I also understand the feelings you express and don't see a sexual wish when I scream at the idiot in the next car. I have heard rumors though that sex is good after a fight.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I also challenge the conditions of inmates as being the worst in any developed country. They may be bad, but Australia's prison camps for refugees are much worse.

Much worse? lol, maybe you'd like to provide some proof of that. Link, please.

I also wonder why you are comparing a jail with a detention center for so-called 'illegal immigrants'. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

It's an opinion. I don't know of some sort of rating system that compares the two. Australia's refugee torture centers are horrible. I don't think that we can expect much from a country that had a white-onlyimmigration policy until the 70s.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I also challenge the conditions of inmates as being the worst in any developed country. They may be bad, but Australia's prison camps for refugees are much worse.

Much worse? lol, maybe you'd like to provide some proof of that. Link, please.

I also wonder why you are comparing a jail with a detention center for so-called 'illegal immigrants'. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

It's an opinion. I don't know of some sort of rating system that compares the two. Australia's refugee torture centers are horrible. I don't think that we can expect much from a country that had a white-onlyimmigration policy until the 70s.

It's an opinion that isn't grounded in fact. That is why you are unable to provide a link that supports you ropinion. The dentention centers are not 'torture centers'. The worst that can be said about them is that the detainees are cut off from mainstream society, and outside stimulation, for excessive periods of time, and that that almost certainly is having a negative effect on the detainees' mental health. The people in these centers arrive in Australia via boats, to seek political asylum. They aren't 'tortured'. They are held, until their application for asylum is assessed. Australia has a quite ethnically diverse population, with high numbers of Greeks, Italians, people from all parts of Asia, etc. It's amazing to me that so many different ethnicities can live in this country with so little friction.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I also challenge the conditions of inmates as being the worst in any developed country. They may be bad, but Australia's prison camps for refugees are much worse.

Much worse? lol, maybe you'd like to provide some proof of that. Link, please.

I also wonder why you are comparing a jail with a detention center for so-called 'illegal immigrants'. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

It's an opinion. I don't know of some sort of rating system that compares the two. Australia's refugee torture centers are horrible. I don't think that we can expect much from a country that had a white-onlyimmigration policy until the 70s.

It's an opinion that isn't grounded in fact. That is why you are unable to provide a link that supports you ropinion. The dentention centers are not 'torture centers'. The worst that can be said about them is that the detainees are cut off from mainstream society, and outside stimulation, for excessive periods of time, and that that almost certainly is having a negative effect on the detainees' mental health. The people in these centers arrive in Australia via boats, to seek political asylum. They aren't 'tortured'. They are held, until their application for asylum is assessed.

Your opinion isn't grounded in fact, but blind nationalism.

Australia has a quite ethnically diverse population, with high numbers of Greeks, Italians, people from all parts of Asia, etc. It's amazing to me that so many different ethnicities can live in this country with so little friction.

Australia may have an ethnically diverse population, but it is not racially diverse. You can thank the white-only Australia policy. It's amazing that a developed country had such a policy in the 1970s.

Thanks to Australia's treatment of refugees, it gave European leaders the idea to try to implement their own illegal concentration camps in North Africa.

 

[digiram]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Ever said, "F@ck You", to a guy? Ever thought about what the understood subject of that sentence is? For those to whom grammar is a foreign language, the sentence really reads, I f@ck you. Nice huh. Your a repressed Gay. Who'd a thunk!

Oh, and thanks for the offer, but I'm not Gay.

Hey, fvck you.

Yup, that was the offer I expected.

Moonbeam is the funniest guy on here. You've always got me cracking up. Are you a comedian in real life? If not, then you should consider a career in comic. Seriously!!!

 

[digiram]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: 2cpuminimum
FYI, in the majority of rapes, the victim is male. The majority of rape victims are female. This is because the majority of rapes occur in prison.

Prove it.

More than 70% of all the US inmates got raped at least once. Lots of statistics on government and academic websites. The inmate conditions in the US are among the worst in any developed country.

This should be enough of a reason to obey the law of the land.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: digiram

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Ever said, "F@ck You", to a guy? Ever thought about what the understood subject of that sentence is? For those to whom grammar is a foreign language, the sentence really reads, I f@ck you. Nice huh. Your a repressed Gay. Who'd a thunk!

Oh, and thanks for the offer, but I'm not Gay.

Hey, fvck you.

Yup, that was the offer I expected.

Moonbeam is the funniest guy on here. You've always got me cracking up. Are you a comedian in real life? If not, then you should consider a career in comic. Seriously!!!

I often think of the German saying from the trenches of WWI:

The situation is hopeless, but not serious.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Tango

More than 70% of all the US inmates got raped at least once. Lots of statistics on government and academic websites. The inmate conditions in the US are among the worst in any developed country.

70%?

"Research carried out by Cindy Struckman-Johnson and David Struckman-Johnson of the University of South Dakota has found that 22% - 25% of male prisoners in the United States had been the victim of sexual assault, 10% of rape, and 6% of gang rape. Women prisoners are especially vulnerable to assault by guards and other staff members, and the incidence in the United States has been denounced by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch."

I also challenge the conditions of inmates as being the worst in any developed country. They may be bad, but Australia's prison camps for refugees are much worse. I would not be surprised if refugees in European detention centers are treated worse.

It's very volatile variable, and it's very very hard to get a definitive statistic for this subject, due to under-reporting, fear, and also non-agreement on what a rape is.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report.html
Here you have a lot of data. Some studies showed that more than 20% of the inmate population of a prison was forced into sexual contact just during a study period of some months.

In some point you have some data about young, small-sized inmates: they all get sexually approached in the first week in prison.

More than statistics, you have case studies and interview of former inmates about what the conditions in US detention facilities is.

I said among the worst. Not the worst. I have no data, and probably it's even hard to define something like "the worst conditions". It depends on what you look at. In europe the situation is much better than in the US. In this plays a big role the smaller inmate population. It's very hard to keep people in a human condition if you have too many of them in a small space. But, for example, in most european countries they don't mix young inmates with older ones (if you read those studies, this is like a sure sentence to gang-rape) and also don't have male guards in female detention facilities.

I don't want to turn this debate in yet another US-Europe thing: I was just saying that the US could afford more human conditions for those people. Nobody should ever be sentenced to gang-rape, no matter what.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Tango

More than 70% of all the US inmates got raped at least once. Lots of statistics on government and academic websites. The inmate conditions in the US are among the worst in any developed country.

70%?

"Research carried out by Cindy Struckman-Johnson and David Struckman-Johnson of the University of South Dakota has found that 22% - 25% of male prisoners in the United States had been the victim of sexual assault, 10% of rape, and 6% of gang rape. Women prisoners are especially vulnerable to assault by guards and other staff members, and the incidence in the United States has been denounced by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch."

I also challenge the conditions of inmates as being the worst in any developed country. They may be bad, but Australia's prison camps for refugees are much worse. I would not be surprised if refugees in European detention centers are treated worse.

It's very volatile variable, and it's very very hard to get a definitive statistic for this subject, due to under-reporting, fear, and also non-agreement on what a rape is.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report.html
Here you have a lot of data. Some studies showed that more than 20% of the inmate population of a prison was forced into sexual contact just during a study period of some months.

In some point you have some data about young, small-sized inmates: they all get sexually approached in the first week in prison.

More than statistics, you have case studies and interview of former inmates about what the conditions in US detention facilities is.

I said among the worst. Not the worst. I have no data, and probably it's even hard to define something like "the worst conditions". It depends on what you look at. In europe the situation is much better than in the US. In this plays a big role the smaller inmate population. It's very hard to keep people in a human condition if you have too many of them in a small space. But, for example, in most european countries they don't mix young inmates with older ones (if you read those studies, this is like a sure sentence to gang-rape) and also don't have male guards in female detention facilities.

I don't want to turn this debate in yet another US-Europe thing: I was just saying that the US could afford more human conditions for those people. Nobody should ever be sentenced to gang-rape, no matter what.

Can you provide a link to the data that states 70% of all inmates are raped? It's a pretty big report. The researchers I got my data from are considered experts on the subject and they show a much smaller statistic than what you cited, and they are also mentioned in the HRW report.

I agree with your general statements though.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Tango

More than 70% of all the US inmates got raped at least once. Lots of statistics on government and academic websites. The inmate conditions in the US are among the worst in any developed country.

70%?

"Research carried out by Cindy Struckman-Johnson and David Struckman-Johnson of the University of South Dakota has found that 22% - 25% of male prisoners in the United States had been the victim of sexual assault, 10% of rape, and 6% of gang rape. Women prisoners are especially vulnerable to assault by guards and other staff members, and the incidence in the United States has been denounced by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch."

I also challenge the conditions of inmates as being the worst in any developed country. They may be bad, but Australia's prison camps for refugees are much worse. I would not be surprised if refugees in European detention centers are treated worse.

It's very volatile variable, and it's very very hard to get a definitive statistic for this subject, due to under-reporting, fear, and also non-agreement on what a rape is.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report.html
Here you have a lot of data. Some studies showed that more than 20% of the inmate population of a prison was forced into sexual contact just during a study period of some months.

In some point you have some data about young, small-sized inmates: they all get sexually approached in the first week in prison.

More than statistics, you have case studies and interview of former inmates about what the conditions in US detention facilities is.

I said among the worst. Not the worst. I have no data, and probably it's even hard to define something like "the worst conditions". It depends on what you look at. In europe the situation is much better than in the US. In this plays a big role the smaller inmate population. It's very hard to keep people in a human condition if you have too many of them in a small space. But, for example, in most european countries they don't mix young inmates with older ones (if you read those studies, this is like a sure sentence to gang-rape) and also don't have male guards in female detention facilities.

I don't want to turn this debate in yet another US-Europe thing: I was just saying that the US could afford more human conditions for those people. Nobody should ever be sentenced to gang-rape, no matter what.

Can you provide a link to the data that states 70% of all inmates are raped? It's a pretty big report. The researchers I got my data from are considered experts on the subject and they show a much smaller statistic than what you cited, and they are also mentioned in the HRW report.

I agree with your general statements though.

That 70% figure comes out from somewhere in that study I linked to. It WAS NOT a statistic result, coming from a significant and accurate study. It's just mentioned by somebody in those interviews. Some social workers who study the penitentiary system usually give similar figures for many prisons, but proably are considering only the hard ones. In that study you have a 73 violence percentage, but it doesn't include rapes only. Again, if you think it's too high, I would probably agree. So kick my ass on this...
But again this is not the point of that study. But if you have some experience of Statistics you will know how hard is to build a dataset for something like this: most people would just be too scared/emberassed/frustrated to answer quetions about this. Actually that study had higher figures if you asked the guards than if you interviewed the inmates. Read some of those pages to know why. Accepting the fact that somebody raped you in prison basically means that every other inmate will feel like raping you again, because you accept the fact. So, denial is the most common attitude.
The point is that the most defenseless ones are the ones always getting raped. Young, non street-smart, small individuals get raped within the very first few weeks. Educated people more than the others. People in jail for non-violent crimes more than the others. People with mental problems more than the others.
Also these people usually never recover from the schock. Some of them develop later criminal behaviour when they get out of jail basically because of those experiences. You really cannot think of giving someone a secon chance if you have him spend a period f his life in a place when he is constantly raped, beaten and assaulted.

 

[Kibbo86]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Please please, don't go f@ck yourself. I will do that for you. You'll be way too damn gentle.

Poetry.

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Apparently during Biblical times, raping another male was the ultimate way of degrading and humilating him. This was because it was thought that raping a man is forcing him into the 'submissive' or 'female' role. And becuase the culture in those days was so sexist, the worst thing you could do to a man is treat him 'like' a woman. Women were considered worthless. For example, in the biblical story of Sodom, when the men of the town come to Lot's door and demand to rape his two male guests, he offers them his two daughters instead. The lives of his own daughters were less valuable than the lives of two complete strangers (who were male).

Are you even suggesting that if the Bible and/or morality is removed that such rape is not degrading and humilating? Perhaps you are espousing that it is just a sexual preference and as such should be condoned and even embraced.

I see absolutely nothing in your statement that says such actions are deplorable. I do see in your statement the suggestion, if not defenese, that only the Bible suggests that such actions are bad.

 

[aidanjm]

.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Tango
The point is that the most defenseless ones are the ones always getting raped. Young, non street-smart, small individuals get raped within the very first few weeks. Educated people more than the others. People in jail for non-violent crimes more than the others. People with mental problems more than the others.
Also these people usually never recover from the schock. Some of them develop later criminal behaviour when they get out of jail basically because of those experiences. You really cannot think of giving someone a secon chance if you have him spend a period f his life in a place when he is constantly raped, beaten and assaulted.

Apparently people don't care. The common point of view seems to be that being subject to rape and sexual assault in prison is the price you pay for comitting a criminal act.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: 2cpuminimum
FYI, in the majority of rapes, the victim is male. The majority of rape victims are female. This is because the majority of rapes occur in prison.

Where did you hear this? If you do studies on rape, rape culture, etc - you'll come to find that almost half of all women will be forced to have sex without consent in their lives (IE - RAPED).

This comes from a really bad definition of rape. These numbers are derived from a definition of rape that states that any sexual encounter that the woman acceded to, but would not have chosen with out prompting from her partner, is rape. It completely ignores the most basic definition of rape, which is to force sexual contact against a persons consent.