Why is no one talking about the elephant in the room, the coming 20-50% tariffs

[ImpulsE69]

. I don't think China has the same types of restrictions like we do here in the US.

Well, I mean...there's a reason for that...say what you will but regulations are a good thing.

 

[Hugo Drax]

I'm old enough to remember when Japan had exactly that same sort of reputation in America about the goods they were producing. But by the 1970s their quality made most consumer goods produced in the US look like garbage. China is in exactly the same spot now. If they're producing crap, it's only because of the price-point sought by the companies putting those products on the shelves. They can make goods to any standard level wanted now. If the same goods were made in the US, they'd be every bit as crappy, and twice as expensive.

How much does it actually cost in labor to make that 900 dollar iphone? They could make it in the US and still sell it for 900 dollars.

 

[zerocool84]

How much does it actually cost in labor to make that 900 dollar iphone? They could make it in the US and still sell it for 900 dollars.

Well yea but Apple would make SIGNIFICANTLY less on that iPhone if it was made here.

It's not how much you sell something for, it's how much you make when you sell it. They don't call it cheap Chinese labor for nothing.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I just learned that there are also some serious tariffs on solar stuff. I've been having trouble finding solar panels without having to pay an arm and a leg for the panels themselves, or for the shipping. Now i know why. Even cells are tariffed so this is affecting local manufacturers too since the only place to get them is China.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/arti...e-Solar-Panels-Could-Hurt-Canadian-Renewables

I'm all for imposing tariffs on stuff that you actually can get locally at an equal price, but the few local manufactures charge hundreds of dollars for shipping when you can get them from China with free shipping.

I've been trying to source out some solar panels for a project and now I know why it's so hard. I may have to cancel this project, or learn how to fab my own cells, or look towards another renewable like wind, or thermal.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

The city has deeper pockets then a small business owner like me so a court battle would be out of the question.

That's actually the important part. A big company with money to throw around gets to do whatever they can pay their lawyers to make legal. Because the city doesn't have infinite legal dollars either.

 

[Red Squirrel]

That's actually the important part. A big company with money to throw around gets to do whatever they can pay their lawyers to make legal. Because the city doesn't have infinite legal dollars either.

This is where the legal system sucks. The rich get what they want, while the poor can get stepped on. IP law is the worse for that. As a small guy if you patent something a big company can rip it off, it costs millions of dollars to defend a patent so you won't be able to defend it. But if you accidentally infringe on a patent of a big company then they'll drag your ass to court for millions of dollars and you pretty much have no choice but to fold your company and also personally declare bankruptcy as they'll go after your personal assets too.

 

[mindless1]

I'm old enough to remember when Japan had exactly that same sort of reputation in America about the goods they were producing. But by the 1970s their quality made most consumer goods produced in the US look like garbage. China is in exactly the same spot now. If they're producing crap, it's only because of the price-point sought by the companies putting those products on the shelves. They can make goods to any standard level wanted now. If the same goods were made in the US, they'd be every bit as crappy, and twice as expensive.

You have the wrong decade, in the '70s the things made in Japan were still considered garbage.

China has indeed improved the quality of their goods but they are not at all in the same spot. Japan prides itself in doing a thing to perfection. China prides itself in doing a thing the cheapest way possible.

Yes China "can" produce good quality, but that is not the way to make profit from exports. If the same goods were made int he US, they wouldn't be remotely as crapping. That's ridiculous.

Hint: We are not stealing many Chinese patents and cheap ass manufacturing methods. Our products don't smell like burnt rubber and fall apart in 3 years.

 

[Mai72]

I went to Walmart the other day to buy my Dirt Devil. When I pulled it from the shelf I told the Walmart Worker of the impending tarrif war, and how this vacuum is going to be 20% higher.

She just looked at me.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

First, it has nothing to do with manufacturers. Any sizeable business in the USA will immediately count beans before anything else, and if three beans can be saved in China then so it goes--even if it takes 20 years to get to the three beans. My employer is no exception and when you consider what my employer does for business you might think it is hard for them to do that but they've been doing it for more than a decade. In fact my employer continues to maintain an overseas workforce of aout 20% of my center even during the loss of Obama ear subsidies that made it profitable to have them. Now they are more expensive to have yet they skirted the last and upcoming workforce reductions. American companies that are VERY anti-American when it comes to employees.

 

[Carson Dyle]

You have the wrong decade, in the '70s the things made in Japan were still considered garbage.

No, I don't have the wrong decade. In the 1970s things were still considered garbage, because that thinking doesn't just go away overnight. It's exactly like the wrong-headed opinions of Chinese made goods today. They may have produced mostly low-end goods at one time, but not any longer.

 

[bbhaag]

Well, I mean...there's a reason for that...say what you will but regulations are a good thing.

Right I agree certain regulations are a good thing. Until they turn those regulations into a means to your government putting the screws to your business and then letting you know that they can make your life and your families life hell if you oppose their regulations.

That's actually the important part. A big company with money to throw around gets to do whatever they can pay their lawyers to make legal. Because the city doesn't have infinite legal dollars either.

This is actually the worse part and what Red Squirrel is alluding to. Big business has an army of lawyers and almost unlimited money that is ready and willing to go to battle and tie a small business in court. A big company with big money is unstoppable here in the US. They will get their way every time.

This is where the legal system sucks. The rich get what they want, while the poor can get stepped on. IP law is the worse for that. As a small guy if you patent something a big company can rip it off, it costs millions of dollars to defend a patent so you won't be able to defend it. But if you accidentally infringe on a patent of a big company then they'll drag your ass to court for millions of dollars and you pretty much have no choice but to fold your company and also personally declare bankruptcy as they'll go after your personal assets too.

Exactly. Big developers in my area can convince the city to see it their way and the city always sides with big business. It doesn't help that we are in one of the few cities in central Illinois that is growing both in residence and business'. It is very frustrating for us because we don't fall into the cities long term plan.

 

[magicrat03]

I'm old enough to remember when Japan had exactly that same sort of reputation in America about the goods they were producing. But by the 1970s their quality made most consumer goods produced in the US look like garbage. China is in exactly the same spot now. If they're producing crap, it's only because of the price-point sought by the companies putting those products on the shelves. They can make goods to any standard level wanted now. If the same goods were made in the US, they'd be every bit as crappy, and twice as expensive.

So sort of close but not quite they way it happened.

tldr version of my link and quote below:

The Japanese makers of TVs got together dumped TVs below cost in America to run us incompetent Americans out of business. Better quality? Maybe but doubtful since they sort of copied everything we did. But hey what do I know?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...d59869a/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.779087173bfc

With the help of these secret rebates, already low "check prices" and high profits from domestic sales, the Japanese could easily underprice their American compeititors, often selling below production cost. Jobs in the U.S. television manufacturing industry fell 50 percent between 1966 and 1970. They dropped an additional 30 percent between 1971 and 1975, and 25 percent more between 1977 and 1981. When U.S. manufacturers realized what the Japanese were doing, they sought legal protection.

In March 1968, the Import Committee of the U.S. Electronics Industries Association filed a petition with the Treasury Department alleging that TV sets from Japan were being illegally "dumped" on the U.S. market. The Treasury Department began an investigation, sending questionnaires to five major Japanese TV makers -- Sony, Sharp, Matsushita, Toshiba and Hitachi -- seeking information about their U.S. sales.

The Japanese simply stonewalled the requests.

 

[Sonikku]

I think that China will cave before the tariffs get that extreme. They need us for sales revenue more than we need them for poorly made mass produced crap.

I think China's president is smarter than our president gives him credit for.

 

[mindless1]

No, I don't have the wrong decade. In the 1970s things were still considered garbage, because that thinking doesn't just go away overnight. It's exactly like the wrong-headed opinions of Chinese made goods today. They may have produced mostly low-end goods at one time, but not any longer.

It depends entirely on whether they are left to their free will or held to the standards of some western manufacturer.

Chinese manufacturers rarely export anything but junk UNLESS they have a contractual obligation to meet higher standards. AKA, brand names.

I still think you have the wrong decade. It is practically universally agreed upon that you only settle for Chinese manufacturing if quality is the lowest importance. Chinese exports do not match Taiwanese, let alone european or american, except in the rare cases where they are denied the ability to make any Chinese-oriented choices, (lol) are instead commanded to pull their heads out of their asses and do things properly based on a US contract.

 

[KeithTalent]

You guys worked hard for these tariffs. Enjoy!

KT

 

[Muse]

I think that China will cave before the tariffs get that extreme. They need us for sales revenue more than we need them for poorly made mass produced crap.

Don't be so sure. Trump needs fireworks, that's what this is really all about. What gets burned in the process is beyond his ken.