Why is not illegal to smoke in a car with children inside?

[dabuddha]

So the people who think second hand smoke isn't harmful are actually stupid enough to think it's good for people to breathe that crap into their lungs?

 

[SeaSerpent]

Why not just outlaw the damn things altogether. They serve absolutely no purpose besides thinning out the heard, and maybe
getting your local government rich.


WeLcOmE tO CrAzY wOrLd!



(and I smoke)

 

[Chunkee]

Originally posted by: love1u0
Why not just outlaw the damn things altogether. They serve absolutely no purpose besides thinning out the heard, and maybe
getting your local government rich.


WeLcOmE tO CrAzY wOrLd!



(and I smoke)

nice to see someone that does smoke speak up and feel this way

 

[xboxist]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: xboxist
Good freaking lord man... Mill, Red Dawn... if you're so damn ignorant to not understand how smoking in a car with children is truly sickening and irresponsible... just stay out of this converstation and go drive off a cliff or something. Seriously. You're hopeless. Damn heartless, brainless robots.

EDIT: I stopped reading this thread after the first few posts and I don't mean to single out the above two users. Everyone else who's voiced their opinion that smokers should be able to smoke in front of kids is a part of this, and needs to get a clue. It's not about government regulation. It's about simple common sense. Get off of your unjustified power trips and stop acting like the non-smoking community is the out of their minds.

Heartless and brainless? Pot, meet the kettle. If you think they are ranting because they think it's OK to smoke in the car with children, I must argue that you are the ignorant, brainless robot.

Their argument (and mine) has nothing to do with smoking and everything to do with government.

It's the same reason I oppose seat belt laws - not because I oppose seatbelts, but because you can't legislate stupidity and such laws are a waste of time and resources.

I agree that stupidity cannot be legislated. If people would rather have a small comfort (to not be strapped in) than potentially save their own lives... fine. Die away. But the seatbelt law is two-fold by potentially saving a ton of money on healthcare/life insurance costs. I think it's a fairly legit law.

But about my original comments, I'm sorry. Horrible mood today. I hate smoking and always will. I grew up with parents who smoked away without regard to my own comfort and health. It made me stink. It made me cough. It was embarassing to bring friends or a girl over to my house, and I simply avoided being around them whenever possible. Because they didn't care enough to take the super small effort to smoke away from me, it really affected my relationship with them. I love them to death, but I'll always hold a grudge against them for being so selfless about their nasty habbit.

They've since quit.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: xboxist
Good freaking lord man... Mill, Red Dawn... if you're so damn ignorant to not understand how smoking in a car with children is truly sickening and irresponsible... just stay out of this converstation and go drive off a cliff or something. Seriously. You're hopeless. Damn heartless, brainless robots.

EDIT: I stopped reading this thread after the first few posts and I don't mean to single out the above two users. Everyone else who's voiced their opinion that smokers should be able to smoke in front of kids is a part of this, and needs to get a clue. It's not about government regulation. It's about simple common sense. Get off of your unjustified power trips and stop acting like the non-smoking community is the out of their minds.

Hey I never said it was cool to smoke in the car with children, I'm just saying that we don't need the Government to get involved. Should we have Child Services inspect every household where there is children to make sure that there is no sharp objects laying ab out, all outlets have covers and that the bathroom and kitchen be spotless so the kids don't get sick with E Coli?

The only places where common sense is legislated is in places like Red China abd North Korea.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: xboxist

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: xboxist
Good freaking lord man... Mill, Red Dawn... if you're so damn ignorant to not understand how smoking in a car with children is truly sickening and irresponsible... just stay out of this converstation and go drive off a cliff or something. Seriously. You're hopeless. Damn heartless, brainless robots.

EDIT: I stopped reading this thread after the first few posts and I don't mean to single out the above two users. Everyone else who's voiced their opinion that smokers should be able to smoke in front of kids is a part of this, and needs to get a clue. It's not about government regulation. It's about simple common sense. Get off of your unjustified power trips and stop acting like the non-smoking community is the out of their minds.

Heartless and brainless? Pot, meet the kettle. If you think they are ranting because they think it's OK to smoke in the car with children, I must argue that you are the ignorant, brainless robot.

Their argument (and mine) has nothing to do with smoking and everything to do with government.

It's the same reason I oppose seat belt laws - not because I oppose seatbelts, but because you can't legislate stupidity and such laws are a waste of time and resources.

I agree that stupidity cannot be legislated. If people would rather have a small comfort (to not be strapped in) than potentially save their own lives... fine. Die away. But the seatbelt law is two-fold by potentially saving a ton of money on healthcare/life insurance costs. I think it's a fairly legit law.

But about my original comments, I'm sorry. Horrible mood today. I hate smoking and always will. I grew up with parents who smoked away without regard to my own comfort and health. It made me stink. It made me cough. It was embarassing to bring friends or a girl over to my house, and I simply avoided being around them whenever possible. Because they didn't care enough to take the super small effort to smoke away from me, it really affected my relationship with them. I love them to death, but I'll always hold a grudge against them for being so selfless about their nasty habbit.

They've since quit.

Sounds to me like you need to see a therapist to try and resolve your issues have with your folks.

 

[xboxist]

No, I'm positive I don't need a therapist - thanks. I see them often, and we're fine. I'm just glad they quit. I've always been super-picky with my comfort levels, and smoke and smoke smells completely destroy that.

Sorry about the personal attack. I'm not one to normally do that.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: xboxist
No, I'm positive I don't need a therapist - thanks. I see them often, and we're fine. I'm just glad they quit. I've always been super-picky with my comfort levels, and smoke and smoke smells completely destroy that.

Sorry about the personal attack. I'm not one to normally do that.

Well you included a disclaimer so I didn't take it personally.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: dabuddha
So the people who think second hand smoke isn't harmful are actually stupid enough to think it's good for people to breathe that crap into their lungs?

Hi, my name is dabuddha and I can't read and I only use fallacies.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Why is anyone wasting their time talking to the fscktard Mill?

edit: Or Red Dawn for that matter.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Why is anyone wasting their time talking to the fscktard Mill?

edit: Or Red Dawn for that matter.

Probably because it's much more interesting that talking to a simpleton like you.

 

[Modeps]

why isnt stupidity illegal? (in reference to this whole topic)

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Why is anyone wasting their time talking to the fscktard Mill?

edit: Or Red Dawn for that matter.

Probably because it's much more interesting that talking to a simpleton like you.

Yes yes, look at meeeee, look at meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

You make my point so precisely. Let's not talk about the issue, let's throw kiddy insults around all day trying to look like a badass.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Chunkee

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Chunkee

Originally posted by: Mill
Children have free will. If it bothers them they can get out of the car.

absurd

How?

what 6 month old child has free will you mOmO

What the fvck is a mOmO? Is that some type of backwoods TN insult? Anyway, every 6 month old child has free will. If you are willing to smoke around them, then I have to think you are passing on ignorant, tainted genes, so the best bet would be that both of you live short lives.

hmmm, now we're harping on genes? Maybe you should be tested for any hereditary diseases and disposed of?

hmmm, gattica anyone?

So you are saying stupidity and ignorance are medical conditions? Surely you jest.

c'mon Mill. You were the one stating "passing on ignorant, tainted genes".

Hence I can associate you with nanny state nazis and want your kind off the planet. Or possibly in some country where govenment runs the lives of its citizens.

Also how is it stupid and ignorant to smoke with a child in the car? Careless, yes. Irresponsible even.

ignorant, No. (learn the use of the word first)
Stupid, No.

Sorry, it is stupid and ignorant. Maybe YOU should peruse the dictionary more often. Regardless, I'm hardly a nanny-stater. Your zealotry must be interfering with your delusional self. I'm on your side in this debate. There is no reason for more laws about something like this. I'm tired of people screaming there should be a law about something every time they see something they don't like. Maybe read my posts for context next time instead of making stupid assumptions. However, I love that you try to say it isn't ignorant or stupid. It simply is. You should have a right to be stupid or ignorant however, but don't expect help from the government or I when you fvck yourself over. Simple as that.

nevermind then. Guess we agree. I get too heated up when we're talking freedom - even the freedom to do ignorant, stupid stuff.

<---fartknocker

HAHAHAHAH - haven't used that word in years, it's now my word of the day.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Why is anyone wasting their time talking to the fscktard Mill?

edit: Or Red Dawn for that matter.

Probably because it's much more interesting that talking to a simpleton like you.

Yes yes, look at meeeee, look at meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

You make my point so precisely. Let's not talk about the issue, let's throw kiddy insults around all day trying to look like a badass.

Obviously school is out

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: dabuddha
So the people who think second hand smoke isn't harmful are actually stupid enough to think it's good for people to breathe that crap into their lungs?

English MOTHERFVCKER!!!! CAN YOU COMPREHEND IT!?!?!?!?

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Why is anyone wasting their time talking to the fscktard Mill?

edit: Or Red Dawn for that matter.

Because they're the only ones who are actually making a compelling argument, and that's all to often the case with AT. After reading the whole thread, they are some of the few posters who are making logical posts in this sea of dolts.

 

[KK]

Just throwing this out there for discussion:

Should kids be able to sue their parents for any medical conditions that are positively linked back to their parents smoking around them.

KK

 

[MrDudeMan]

i find it sort of ironic that shanti wonders why we dont have a law prohibiting punishment such as locking the kid in a closet and buring it with a cigarette...and then states the government should step in if the punishment you administer to your child will have long lasting effects...

im pretty sure burning your kid with a cig or locking it in the closet for days will have long lasting effects. that was pretty stupid.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Why is anyone wasting their time talking to the fscktard Mill?

edit: Or Red Dawn for that matter.

Stupidity deserves insults. Maybe now you realize why you're always on the other end whenever I speak to you. I could write a treatise on ETS and the government's role in raising kids, but what exactly is the point? The OP had a preconceived notion based on a fallacious idea. He deserved what he got.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: KK
Just throwing this out there for discussion:

Should kids be able to sue their parents for any medical conditions that are positively linked back to their parents smoking around them.

KK

Only if the parents can counter-sue for compensation for 18+ years of room, board, wisdon, discipline, advice and education...

 

[Abrasive]

[andy rooney voice] ya ever notice that these same peole are usually the ones that don't put there children in a setbelt too?[/andy rooney voice]

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: Shanti
Second-hand smoke (which is sometimes called environmental tobacco smoke or ETS) contains toxic substances, over 40 of which cause cancer. Some of these substances are in stronger concentrations in second-hand smoke than they are in the smoke that goes directly into smokers? lungs.

ETS is causally linked with a number of adverse health effects in children (under 18), including:

lower respiratory tract infections (i.e. croup, bronchitis and pneumonia)
increased fluid in the middle ear
upper respiratory tract irritation
reduced lung function
additional episodes of asthma
increased severity of asthmatic symptoms in children
reduced oxygen flow to tissues, comparable to children with anemia, cyanotic heart disease or chronic lung disease ?
ETS is also associated with:

Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS)
acute middle ear infections (otitis media)
tonsillectomy
meningococcal infections
cancers and leukemias in childhood
slower growth
adverse neurobehavioural effects
upper respiratory tract infections (colds and sore throats)
unfavorable cholesterol levels and initiation of atherosclerosis (heart disease) ?
A British study found that SIDS deaths could be reduced by two-thirds if parents did not smoke.***

A U.S. analysis** of over 100 reports on p&aelig;diatric diseases concluded that children?s exposure to tobacco smoke is responsible for up to:

13% of ear infection
(approximately 220,000 ear infections in Canadian children)*

26% of tympanostomy tube insertions
(approximately 16,500 in Canada)

24% of tonsillectomies and adenoidectomies
(approx. 2,100 Canadian operations)

13% of asthma cases
(approx. 52,200 cases in Canada)

16% of physician visits for cough
(approx. 200,000 visits in Canada)

20% of all lung infections in children under 5
(approx. 43,600 cases of bronchitis in Canada and 19,000 cases of pneumonia in Canada)

136-212 childhood deaths from lower respiratory infection
(approx. 13-20 in Canada)

148 childhood deaths from fires started by tobacco products
(approx. 15 in Canada)

1868-2708 SIDS deaths?
(approx. 180-270 in Canada)

* the number of Canadian cases is extrapolated from U.S. estimates
? [Samet, JM. Synthesis: The Health Effects of Tobacco Smoke Exposure on Children. January 7, 1999]
?[California EPA. Final Report: Health Effects of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke, Sept. 1997]
** Joseph diFranza and Robert Lew, Morbidity and Mortality in Children Associated with the Use of Tobacco Products by Other People, Paediatrics, 1996, 97:560-568].
*** Peter Blair et al. Smoking and the sudden infant death syndrome: results from 1993-5 case-control study for confidential inquiry into stillbirths and deaths in infancy. British Medical Journal, 1996: 313.

Cite me the studies, type of study conducted, sample size, who was conducting the study, etc etc etc., with links.

Does that help?

I haven't looked at the research, but I think it's fairly clear cut that second hand smoke causes at least some health issues in children.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
i find it sort of ironic that shanti wonders why we dont have a law prohibiting punishment such as locking the kid in a closet and buring it with a cigarette...and then states the government should step in if the punishment you administer to your child will have long lasting effects...

im pretty sure burning your kid with a cig or locking it in the closet for days will have long lasting effects. that was pretty stupid.

WTF are you talking about?
Do I need to explicitly state when I'm being sarcastic?

Of course we have laws against those things. It's called child abuse and it's illegal.
That is exactly the point. You can't say that government should NEVER step in and tell us how to treat our children.

As I said, if you want to argue that smoking in the car is not bad enough for them to be considered abuse, go ahead.
But don't just say that government shouldn't be involved because that doesn't make any sense unless you think parents should be allowed to do ANYTHING they want to their kids.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Shanti

Does that help?

I haven't looked at the research, but I think it's fairly clear cut that second hand smoke causes at least some health issues in children.

No, not particularly. I looked at the Samet paper, which was a meta-analysis and contained no original research; The EPA Final Report was a joke, and has been known as such for a long time; look at the original 30 studies they used in their meta-analysis and the overwhelmingly insignificant statistical risk proven by those 30 (NOT just the 6); The diFranza and Lew study, meta-analysis, unfortunately I could not find the full text of the study. The Blair study was interesting, but had both a small sample size and relied on survey data.

Take a look here. Show me more studies.