Why is privacy so valuable?

[PaperclipGod]

Just asking from an academic position. Personally I'm very much a fan of limited government intervention and maximum individual privacy. A majority of folks in the US agree with that statement (to varying degrees) as well.

But... why? I mean, when I try to think about it from a neutral perspective, it seems that privacy only serves to conceal criminal acts. If you're doing something that isn't illegal, then why does it matter if it's private or not?

The only flaw I can see with that argument is that the entity viewing this private data is itself led by humans, which implies that mistakes, abuses, and errors are bound to happen. So, does privacy exist soley because there is no impartial entity to review this otherwise private data? It's like a hedged bet, in which the responsibility and risk of human nature is shared between individuals (with privacy, but capable of malicious acts) and government (with oversight, but capable of tyranny).

Hmm... actually, I've been thinking as I write this, and that seems like a pretty good explanation. Anyone have any thoughts/comments/disagreements?

 

[yllus]

Sounds like you have it down.

Information is control, so because of our innate (and generally well-founded) distrust in large organizations of any case we try to give up as little as possible to keep society functioning.

 

[child of wonder]

The more information one has about an individual, the more power they have over that individual.

It's a control thing. Imagine if your boss at work knew everything about you.

"Sorry, PaperclipGod, I see you paid off your car so, technically, you already gave yourself a raise and don't need another."

 

[Jaskalas]

Public dissent is a target for persecution.

Ergo, to remove privacy you'd remove dissent as people do not suffer attacks well. Dissent comes in many forms from any sort of large or minuscule alternative choice from the time you sleep, to the foods you eat, and even the people you talk to. Public knowledge of any of these things allows them to be criticized and attacked. It allows those choices of yours to be controlled by a higher authority.

Without privacy, there is no room for freedom of choice.

 

[spidey07]

Because it's one of the reasons people came to the US in the first place. To escape government coming into their life against their will. If you're a teenager you get peeved when mom and dad come into your room and snoop, even if you aren't doing anything wrong.

As an adult this would be an afront to your personal liberty. Something our country was founded on. Remember what started the revolutionary war?

So to answer your question, it's so valuable because history has taught us what happens when it is not valued.

 

[Bowfinger]

Sounds like you have it down.

Information is control, so because of our innate (and generally well-founded) distrust in large organizations of any case we try to give up as little as possible to keep society functioning.

Yes, plus something doesn't have to be criminal for some to want to keep it private. It might simply be personal or embarrassing, or perhaps socially controversial.

 

[dank69]

...

But... why? I mean, when I try to think about it from a neutral perspective, it seems that privacy only serves to conceal criminal acts. If you're doing something that isn't illegal, then why does it matter if it's private or not?...

That is a terrible assumption.

 

[sandorski]

It's not just about concealing Crime. People do shit that if made Public would be embarrassing or possibly skirting the Norms of society. Hell, just look at Celebrities and see the kind of shit they get put through for doing things the rest of us have done/do with hardly a peep. X Celebrity comes out of a Club Drunk and stumbling and it's a controversy, you or I do and some bystanders might be mildly amused, but no one else gives a shit.

You may as well be asking why is Freedom so valuable, Privacy is certainly a big part of what Freedom is.

 

[cubby1223]

But... why? I mean, when I try to think about it from a neutral perspective, it seems that privacy only serves to conceal criminal acts. If you're doing something that isn't illegal, then why does it matter if it's private or not?

You are assuming that those with access to the information will treat it fairly and responsibly.

 

[Munky]

The govt should be on a "need to know" basis about the detail of my life. Unless there's a good reason for them to know something, I don't want them snooping around.

 

[cubby1223]

Seriously, just take a look at all the nut-job groups that are pissed off at people over political issues! They take campaign donor lists, post them on the internet, full names, addresses, etc., encourage others to harass those people. Prop 8 in California to name one.

Take that situation and explode it at least 1,000 times, if there were no privacy anywhere.

They're not doing anything illegal, not concealing any crime. But the lack of privacy causes huge problems.

Do you want one of the radical militia groups knowing the full details of your life?

 

[brandonb]

Assumption: If you're doing something that isn't illegal, then why does it matter if it's private or not?

This brings up the question, who decides what is wrong? I have many views which I have posted on this forum which alot of people in power would object to. I want the feds audited, bailouts stopped, stop arming Israel, etc. I'm sure I could be on a watchlist somewhere. If the feds knew everything about me (if they don't already) that is a scary thing for me.

Sure, what I do may not be illegal per say, but what difference does it make? What if they do become illegal in the future? And if it was illegal, I'd object to the same things plus more!

It's just another form of intimidation and control. No thanks.

 

[nonlnear]

Well if Moonbeam or House isn't going to post it I will...

Privacy is important to the functioning of society because society is built on lies. It is impossible to preserve our facades of normality without preserving the ability to lie to each other about everything we believe, say, and do. If people had to openly admit who they really are, it would spark an apocalypse of imploding egos.

edit: Now as to the legal functions of privacy... well that's another matter altogether!

 

[Infohawk]

A) I think privacy serves us because it is a psychological heuristic. If we had no privacy it would open up a can of worms of judgment and debate that is really not fruitful. And I think when you see bored people interact and start revealing more about themselves this is because suddenly they do have the time to discuss this more trivial information.

B) But not all private information is trivial. When dealing with important private information (like an employee who may have a serious medical condition but does not want to tell their employer) I think privacy is an extension of property rights. We have absolute control over what happens to our bodies so why do we need to tell anyone? For the most part we have huge control over what goes on inside our homes and therefore why tell how many people are coming over to have sex?

But ultimately we need to balance the public interest vs. the private interest when looking at privacy. I think there's a tendency for people these days to just expect privacy when historically or logically it doesn't make sense.

 

[exdeath]

Seriously, just take a look at all the nut-job groups that are pissed off at people over political issues!
... radical militia groups ...

You are aware this country and it's Constitution were both founded by "nut-job radical militia groups"? Just wondering.

 

[Binarycow]

Because it's one of the reasons people came to the US in the first place. To escape government coming into their life against their will. If you're a teenager you get peeved when mom and dad come into your room and snoop, even if you aren't doing anything wrong.

As an adult this would be an afront to your personal liberty. Something our country was founded on. Remember what started the revolutionary war?

So to answer your question, it's so valuable because history has taught us what happens when it is not valued.

a BIG Amen to that.

 

[Jaskalas]

Regarding privacy.... let me phrase this in a manner the pro-gov types can appreciate. Your largely pro-abortion so lets set this straight.

Should there be a large scarlet letter on the door of every house whose occupants have had abortions? Should there be a mark on the house of every gay person?

Of course not. Privacy gives us the room to make free choices without being attacked for those choices.

 

[her209]

Everyone should live in glass houses.

 

[shira]

Just asking from an academic position. Personally I'm very much a fan of limited government intervention and maximum individual privacy. A majority of folks in the US agree with that statement (to varying degrees) as well.

But... why? I mean, when I try to think about it from a neutral perspective, it seems that privacy only serves to conceal criminal acts. If you're doing something that isn't illegal, then why does it matter if it's private or not?

The only flaw I can see with that argument is that the entity viewing this private data is itself led by humans, which implies that mistakes, abuses, and errors are bound to happen. So, does privacy exist soley because there is no impartial entity to review this otherwise private data? It's like a hedged bet, in which the responsibility and risk of human nature is shared between individuals (with privacy, but capable of malicious acts) and government (with oversight, but capable of tyranny).

Hmm... actually, I've been thinking as I write this, and that seems like a pretty good explanation. Anyone have any thoughts/comments/disagreements?

You're having an intimate romantic encounter with your lover. Should the government be able to eavesdrop on you?

You and a business associate have a great idea for a venture, but it's the sort of idea that can be profitable only if it can be completely developed without competitors finding out about it too soon. Should the government have access to your ideas?

You're writing an article or book that will reveal horrible acts by the heads of government. Should the government be allowed to spy on you to see what you're doing?

Unless there's a reasonable suspicion that an individual is planning a criminal act, the individual has a right to not be spied on. Privacy is one of the most important liberties we have, and it should not be diluted except to further even more compelling liberties.

 

[Tom]

privacy, freedom, liberty, can't have one without the other two.

 

[StageLeft]

I have heard this argument before. It's one of those unalienable things (although culture does influence it) that most or all cultures simply take for granted. I could ask why is it so important that you keep your children if I could objectively prove that they will be better brought up by somebody else. Shouldn't that other person raise them? Privacy is one of those things you don't need to ask why people want it, they just do.

And sometimes it's criminal and sometimes not. I prefer, for example, to pick my nose in private. It's just what I like. Other times I just don't want people around me or to see me. We all put up facades and only in total privacy can you take it down. The facade may be one hiding the fact you are a criminal or it may be hiding the fact that you like to wear women's dresses but it doesn't matter either way.

 

[OutHouse]

If you're doing something that isn't illegal, then why does it matter if it's private or not?

ok starting tomorrow you have to file a drive path from your house to work on your cities website. you must list every street you drive on and every stop you make.

you are doing nothing illegal so whats the harm?

 

[bamacre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1P53wMbnsw

 

[cwjerome]

Privacy rights work parallel with property rights, and for the same reasons. Privacy and property rights are both consequences and corollaries of our natural Right to Life as mentioned in the DoI.

 

[ModerateRepZero]

privacy is valuable not only because it gives people a certain amount of control (and by extension freedom) over themselves and their actions without necessarily worrying about social stigma, gossip, etc. but also because people get to relax "in private". even a celebrity or politician who may implicitly give up a reasonable expectation of privacy still deserves (if not entitled to) some private space to think, for example. it doesn't follow that because they're public figures that they're not entitled to any privacy whatsoever.

here's one article about privacy; a NYTimes magazine article titled "The Eroded Self"
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/30/magazine/the-eroded-self.html?scp=3&