Why isn't Clinton in jail?

[DevilsAdvocate]

The difference is the types of criminals Bill Clinton pardoned and the money that was paid to him for doing so. He pardoned Mark Rich - who had been a fugitive from justice for years. This was the most celebrated of his last minute pardons.

The one that is really upsetting to me was the pardoning of the son of a Columbian drug lord. I don't specifiaclly remember his name, but that was absurd. All for a little money.

Bill Clinton was easily the most corrupt president we have had since World War II. Think about it - was it a vast right wing conspiracy, or was it the fact that Mr. Clinton's presidency was absolutely riddled by scandals of his own creation. Long before Fornigate, there was Whitewater, Travelgate, the Mesa Airport drug thing... the list goes on and on. The guy was very corrupt. I fail to see why he deserves the glowing legacy that many here have tried to give him.

As far as his accomplishments as President, what did he actually do? All he did was keep Greenspan on as the Director of the Fed (Bush, Sr. appointed him). That was a huge reason why the economy prospered - because the Fed kept a conservative director. The President does not have the power to tax or to spend money - that belongs to the Congress - the Republican Congress.

Seriously what did he do, since he really had practically nothing to do with the economy?

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Also - the Democrats started this personal life garbage by skewering Sen. John Tower, a Republican Cabinet nominee and then Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. You can't start the game and then refuse to play by the rules that you created.

In response to the epic post above of Clinton achievements above, name one of them that is actually his. Under the U.S. Constitution, the Legislative Branch was setup as the more powerful of the three branches. The executive has no powers that are not conferred by the Constitution and Congress. When you say that Bill balanced the budget, all he did was sign the budget that was hammered out in Congress.

The President does not have the power of the purse. That belongs exclusively to Congress.

So how is Bill responsible for this miraculously balanced budget...

 

[SuperTool]

<<
Bill Clinton was easily the most corrupt president we have had since World War II. Think about it - was it a
vast right wing conspiracy, or was it the fact that Mr. Clinton's presidency was absolutely riddled by scandals
of his own creation. Long before Fornigate, there was Whitewater, Travelgate, the Mesa Airport drug thing...
the list goes on and on. The guy was very corrupt. I fail to see why he deserves the glowing legacy that many
here have tried to give him.
>>



And long before Travelgate, there was Watergate, but I guess you forgot that one. Now who is most corrupt?
The legacy that Clinton has aside from the Monica affair that some want to reduce his presidency to, is the 8 years of great peace and prosperity in the U.S. unlike anything before that. I know you are gonna say it's lucky timing, and I will believe that when I see a Republican with such luck. So far I am just seeing deficit spending and a recession.

 

[Red Dawn]

People are going to have to keep practicing revisionist history if you want to convince anybody that the 8 years under Clinton were "Lean Times" Just like Bush can't be blamed for the tough times now (well not all) Clinton can't be given all the credit for the great times. But he sure didn't sionk our economy and he wasa at the Helm for the longest streh of prosperity I can remember growing up in America. Hey it copuld have resulted from the Ratpubliklans and the Demonrats holding off each other from doing too,much damage

One theme keeps popping up in these threads..Morality. I seriously doubt that those who bring it up are any better than Bubba himself. They might say they are.. but then PCResources says he was a millionare 10 times over too. What they really are is a bunch of Blowhard Hypocrites.. just like that Hot Gasbag Rush Limbaugh.

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< theres a difference in degrees of lying, and if you dont' believe that you are kidding yourself. lying about your age is a white lie. lying to your wife is a personal lie. lying about criminal activitiy is a criminal lie. one hurts no one, one hurts your family, and one hurts the nation. no one said he did no wrong, but saying that a leader can't make a mistake without losing all morals is silly. look to history, great men have had questional personal lives, others like hitler stay faithful to their loves. In other words, using that to judge a man proves nothing. >>



You have proven my point. For many people there are no degrees of lying. When a person lies to my face, he is a liar. I will question every word he ever says to me again. I think it is a fundamental character flaw. That is the fundamental difference between people who do not like Clinton and those who don't really think he did anything wrong. It is very sad really, because many of those people who like Clinton are raising their kids the same way.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< It is very sad really, because many of those people who like Clinton are raising their kids the same way. >>

Now this is typical of the "Holier than thou" hypocrasy of some of the sniveling Republican Blowhard's here. If you are Pro Clinton then you must be a flawed parent. Well bubba, it seems your folks made an error or two along the way in raising you.

 

[flawedecision]

Nefrodite your ability to respond in kind is remarkable in that it is a disgrace, yet at the same time it is somewhat heroic. Very few on the left will still defend Bill Clinton. He's out of office and he is no longer needed for democratic fundraising and democratic victories, IE the win in virginia.

I call you heroic because you are courageous... clearly you support Clinton and his Presidency. As a result you will defend his administration regardless of what it has done. My liberal consorts gave up defending the man after the pardon fiasco which I like to refer to as his Swan Song. There was and is no defending some of those pardons. What can you say? That decades of administrations have granted pardons, some of them not so glamorious? That argument is void of fact, and here is why:

The rich pardon and many others were entirely illegal. They were granted by Clinton without the specificity required by law to allow the USDOJ to process the pardon applications and issue a pardon warrant.

Now on to why you are a disgrace. You are a disgrace because you will defend Clinton regardless of his actions. I pointed out that he was fined 800,000 for obstruction of justice. In your clever little attempt to diminish the credibility of our entire system of law you mockingly say: ah yes, after spending millions and wasting incredible amounts of time and man power they had to get something out of it. 800k for lying about sex. good job!

Lying about sex? First of all this wasn't a trial about "sex." Bill Clinton was on trial for sexual harassment. Interestinly enough the feminists remained quiet during this entire fiasco. Where were the extreme left defending this woman's rights? Now if Bill Clinton were a black conservative... HELLO NEW YORK.

You can take the rest of your spin to the next DNC convention and perhaps create a tornado of artificially contrived intelligence for all I care.

I say the man was fined 800,000 for obstructing justice, you say it is meaningless because it is about sex. I list half a dozen illegal allegations including campaign finance acceptances from foreign entitities and you scream right wing conspiracy, or in a few cases you simply ignore what I say.

I really do not care how far you and the other disgraces will go to defend a criminal. We still see many idiotic black people convinced that O.J. is innocent. If anything this is a sign of where the liberal intolerance has driven this great nation.



In regards to the initial post of this thread. According to the law and past cases of obstruction of justice, Clinton should be in prison. There is a case you've probably heard on the news quite a bit over the years of a female lawyer who was convicted of similar charges, rather than fines she faced a prison sentence.

It's a disgrace to the foundation of this country. The historical revisionists are a disgrace to intelligence, and the obsessively compulsive Clintonians are a disgrace to common sense.

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< Well bubba, it seems your folks made an error or two along the way in raising you. >>



What errors were those d!ckbrain. Tell the truth, don't steal, don't cheat on your wife. Yeah, those are terrible tributes. I will make no apologies for having zero tolerance for people that think doing any of those things is OK. It has nothing to do with being a Republican or Democrat. It has to do with being a man (or woman) and being a good parent. Something you and your hero clinton obviously have no clue about. You're dismissed.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< It's a disgrace to the foundation of this country. The historical revisionists are a disgrace to intelligence, and the obsessively compulsive Clintonians are a disgrace to common sense. >>

Boy you sound as if you expect people to actually believe what you are saying. The reason you buffoons are so bitter is because it was two successful terms in which the country propered. I truly believe that you would have been more forgiven if Clinton's terms would have been utter failures because then they wouldn't have been more successful than the two terms under Ronald Waxhead in the 80's. You clowns keep bringing up morality and honesty. We how about a sense of reality..as in you haven't any. Do you honestly think Bubba lied moree than Ronny Waxhead of Bush Senior? Hell both of those admins were populated by slimey rat bastards like Ollie North and General Poindexter (not to mention MacFarlane) Sure Clinton should have been smarter and kept his pants on, but to say that he was more corrupt and immoral than any of those other Power Grabbers is totally ignorant

 

[flawedecision]

The legacy that Clinton has aside from the Monica affair that some want to reduce his presidency to, is the 8 years of great peace and prosperity in the U.S. unlike anything before that. I know you are gonna say it's lucky timing, and I will believe that when I see a Republican with such luck. So far I am just seeing deficit spending and a recession.



Sad. Pathetic.

You know what I see? I see a country doing whatever is necessary to protect its way of life. I see idiotic fools the nation over taking a couple econ courses in college and declaring themselves seasoned economists.

Talking about Clinton is not something I really enjoy. He's old news. Yes he violated the law, yes he sold our country out in many ways, yes he was disliked by the men and women of the military, yes he was probably one of the most corrupt Presidents we've ever had. None of this really bothers me. Because the private sector continued on and did great things. It didn't bother me that Republicans and Democrats couldn't get along... or that Clinton gave every member of congress a reason to be embarassed and humiliated... or a reason to stonewall.

Ironically perhaps Clinton's finest quality was his ability to be purely corrupt. It kept his administration out of the private sector to an extent... it kept washington in a deadlock for 8 years... it let the private sector run america. This was a great thing.


You're going to see deficit spending for probably another 2-3 years. This has nothing to do with the current administration and everything to do with principles I cannot fully address in a few paragraphs. I'll simply note that the initial growth and increases began before Clinton won in 92, and the downturns began before he left office.

I wouldn't necessarily blame Clinton for the current economic times either. This is just a cycle that came much later than expected.

 

[SuperTool]

There has always been lotsa smoke and mirrors around Clinton with all these investigations. And the reason that the Republicans didn't get him is not for the lack of trying (they wasted millions on top of millions in addition to their credibility and politcal capital), but for lack of evidence. All they got is wink-wink nod-nod innuendo. Otherwise they would have impeached him on something more serious, no? Instead they went for the tabloid readers and the lowest common denominator with the Lewinsky fiasco. This was tabloid impeachment on BS charges, and the American people rejected the whole thing as frivolous and GOP paid the price

 

[Red Dawn]

<< Something you and your hero clinton obviously have no clue about. You're dismissed. >>

FYI Bubba, Clinton isn't my Hero. And even if he were I wouldn't be so full of myself to judge others parenting skills by their political affiliations.


<< I will make no apologies for having zero tolerance for people that think doing any of those things is OK >>

What you have to understand Bubba is that your attempt to denegrate others parenting skills because their support of Bill Clinton only go to further the notion that you and those like you are usually the biggest hypocrites.

 

[flawedecision]

This was tabloid impeachment on BS charges, and the American people rejected the whole thing as frivolous and GOP paid the price

I don't know where you are from... but where I'm from perjury in a federal court (article I) is a serious offense... as is obstruction of justice. We don't call that tabloid BS, we call that violation of law.

And yes they clearly paid the price... they won the white house in 2000.... Control of the house, white house, state legislators, state governorships... what a disaster.

 

[FlamingEightBall]

So if someone gave you a bunch of money then you should go to jail....leave the president alone....why don't you rage on Bush? He is the worst thing that could happen to this country...

 

[Red Dawn]

<< they won the white house in 2000.... Control of the house, white house, state legislators, state governorships... what a disaster >>

The whitehouse was won without any kind of mandate and the Ratpubliklans lost the Senate. Frankly I think you give either party to much credit. With the Clintons and the Trent Lotts running around neither party or supporters of either party have much to brag about.

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< FYI Bubba, Clinton isn't my Hero. And even if he were I wouldn't be so full of myself to judge others parenting skills by their political affiliations. >>





<< What you have to understand Bubba is that your attempt to denegrate others parenting skills because their support of Bill Clinton only go to further the notion that you and those like you are usually the biggest hypocrites. >>



Read my post again d!ckbrain. This time try to comprehend the words. I made it very clear that it had nothing to do with political party. See the words. Try to understand the words. Get help if you need it explained to you. My problem is with people who don't think Clinton did anything wrong, not with people who support him for other reasons. Read real slow. I'll explain it to you again if I have to.

 

[Red Dawn]

I have no problem comprehending your drivel Bubba. I understood exactly what you meant when you questioned the parenting skills of those who supported Billy Boy.The fact that you felt comforatble expressing such hogwash brings up more questions about your character than that of Clintons (all which have been answered)

 

[flawedecision]

Boy you sound as if you expect people to actually believe what you are saying. The reason you buffoons are so bitter is because it was two successful terms in which the country propered. I truly believe that you would have been more forgiven if Clinton's terms would have been utter failures because then they wouldn't have been more successful than the two terms under Ronald Waxhead in the 80's. You clowns keep bringing up morality and honesty. We how about a sense of reality..as in you haven't any. Do you honestly think Bubba lied moree than Ronny Waxhead of Bush Senior? Hell both of those admins were populated by slimey rat bastards like Ollie North and General Poindexter (not to mention MacFarlane) Sure Clinton should have been smarter and kept his pants on, but to say that he was more corrupt and immoral than any of those other Power Grabbers is totally ignorant



Decry revisionism but bask in a wealth of artificial reformation.

The few hundred issues I have with Clinton's administration have little to do with morality and honest, and much to do with the law. I don't really care if he had sex in the oval office. The same office that men have made world altering decisions out of... It's sad and pathetic that the Presidency has come to such a thing, but I don't really care.

What I do care about is fiscal responsibility. This would entail taxation, applicable monetary policies when needed, proper usage of the social security trust which over the past eight years has alleviated excessive borrowing from the market of loanable funds resulting in lower interest rates for the general public.

I don't care about clinton. he's a fly on the wall. I dont' care if you dislike Reagan and Bush, or have no understanding of reaganomics or the underlying causes for the stretch of growth you openly discuss with no apparent understanding of.

It's not important. What's important right now is our ability to maintain strong borders, strong trade relations, and steady growth rates.

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< The fact that you felt comforatble expressing such hogwash brings up more questions about your character than that of Clintons (all whcih have ben answered) >>



Really. Why don't you enlighten me about all those questions and answers. We'll see exactly how good your reading comprehension skills are. Sorry about that one big word. Hope I didn't confuse you.

 

[SuperTool]

<< This was tabloid impeachment on BS charges, and the American people rejected the whole thing as frivolous and GOP paid the price

I don't know where you are from... but where I'm from perjury in a federal court (article I) is a serious offense... as is obstruction of justice. We don't call that tabloid BS, we call that violation of law.

And yes they clearly paid the price... they won the white house in 2000.... Control of the house, white house, state legislators, state governorships... what a disaster. >>




Most people know he lied about Monica, and don't care. He still had high approval ratings after the impeachment. You republicans are just angry, cus you thought that only a right-winger was fit to run this country, and along came Clinton and beat you all upside the head in your own game. Not only that, but he set a benchmark for economic prosperity that it will take a long time for anyone to break. The only way GOP can bring itself up is to bring others down. People are sick and tired of being read morals to by politicians. I don't elect politicians to lecture me on morals. Keep the country running, the roads working, and the homeless off my street.
T

 

[flawedecision]

Most people know he lied about Monica, and don't care. He still had high approval ratings after the impeachment.

Most people don't know that he was found guilty of obstructing a federal investigation and was subject to far lesser penalties than the charge historically has carried with it.

You republicans are just angry, cus you thought that only a right-winger was fit to run this country, and along came Clinton and beat you all upside the head in your own game.

What's the reference for a person who falsely labels the opposition in order to substantiate a claim? a poonany? Er, that isn't PC. I'm a registered libertarian. Clinton beat me at nothing. His administration accomplished very little, and that in and of itself was a direct success for most Americans.

Not only that, but he set a benchmark for economic prosperity that it will take a long time for anyone to break. The only way GOP can bring itself up is to bring others down. People are sick and tired of being read morals to by politicians. I don't elect politicians to lecture me on morals. Keep the country running, the roads working, and the homeless off my street.


You are clearly a poonany. There is no other explaination for such a moronic interpretation of the economies last 15 years. I've dedicated 2 or 3 posts briefly explaining that to which you are clearly lacking understanding on.

What is perhaps even sadder is that your case is no longer an anomole. You have quite a few other people to be thanking WELL before President Clinton. You can begin with Ronald Reagan and Alan Greenspan. You can continue on with reading a few things on supply side economics... then maybe come back and we can go over what the market of loanable funds is, how it relates to interest rates, where all that nice capital came from to provide you that growth you give clinton credit for... and then, just then, maybe we'll have a sandwich and listen to some aic on our new land plots in afghanistan. rofl.

 

[krazykilroy]

Oh Puh-leaase. If Nixon wasn't the worst!!!!

Iran-Contra anyone?

No new TAxes?????

Republicans are the worst, they're just better at covering things up. With their kind of money, they can afford to grease a lot of palms.

So republicans are pissed that Dems are taking money for things, when they pay money to get things done illegally.

Oliver North was a major hero, too.

 

[krazykilroy]

And why isn't OJ in jail?? Damned good lawyers.

And although I believe that OJ had something to do with the Murders, here's something to think on:

How is it that everyone has some cockamamie reasoning for the blood being inside the glove (Logic: for the blood to be in the glove, he would have to have contact with that same blood, yet no fingerprints of him were left),

Yet no one wants to believe that the most corrupt police department in the country (and it's been documented. Why do you think Darryl Gates Resigned??) couldn't have planted that evidence??

 

[flawedecision]

Yet no one wants to believe that the most corrupt police department in the country (and it's been documented. Why do you think Darryl Gates Resigned??) couldn't have planted that evidence??

.... for the love of god .... no more, please, I cannot take it.

 

[SuperTool]

<< Most people know he lied about Monica, and don't care. He still had high approval ratings after the impeachment.

Most people don't know that he was found guilty of obstructing a federal investigation and was subject to far lesser penalties than the charge historically has carried with it.

You republicans are just angry, cus you thought that only a right-winger was fit to run this country, and along came Clinton and beat you all upside the head in your own game.

What's the reference for a person who falsely labels the opposition in order to substantiate a claim? a poonany? Er, that isn't PC. I'm a registered libertarian. Clinton beat me at nothing. His administration accomplished very little, and that in and of itself was a direct success for most Americans.

Not only that, but he set a benchmark for economic prosperity that it will take a long time for anyone to break. The only way GOP can bring itself up is to bring others down. People are sick and tired of being read morals to by politicians. I don't elect politicians to lecture me on morals. Keep the country running, the roads working, and the homeless off my street.


You are clearly without a poonany. There is no other explaination for such a moronic interpretation of the economies last 15 years. I've dedicated 2 or 3 posts briefly explaining that to which you are clearly lacking understanding on.

What is perhaps even sadder is that your case is no longer an anomole. You have quite a few other people to be thanking WELL before President Clinton. You can begin with Ronald Reagan and Alan Greenspan. You can continue on with reading a few things on supply side economics... then maybe come back and we can go over what the market of loanable funds is, how it relates to interest rates, where all that nice capital came from to provide you that growth you give clinton credit for... and then, just then, maybe we'll have a sandwich and listen to some aic on our new land plots in afghanistan. rofl. >>



Yeah, yeah. You are just an angry, defeated little man, like all the other right wingers and so called libertarians like Bill O'Reilly. If you really think Reagan is to thank for Clinton years' prosperity, who is to blame for Bush years' slump? Jimmy Carter? Reaganomics got us nowhere, and we are about to see it get us nowhere again.

Most people know more than they want to know about the Impeachment. It's not that they don't know, it's that they don't care. Maybe in theory they care about morals and what not, but in reality, people just care about nice cars, money in their pockets, their health insurance and things the affect them directly. You find me an average American who will trade 8 years of prosperity with an sinner president for 8 years of recession with a saint, and I will find you a retard or an idealogue. Noone expects morals from politicians anymore, if they ever did. We just want them to do their job, and Clinton did.