Why isn't Europe as crazy about guns as US?

[_Rick_]

wtf 11 pages already.... anyway in case it has not already been mentioned:

the ONE European country who did not get invaded by one side or the other during WW2 has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. This is a country who does not have a standing army but instead relies on able bodied citizens being trained as militia and keeping guns at home.

Switzerland.

Only recently has the wave of socialism started to creep in and even this bastion of liberty and freedom may soon be overwhelmed by the hordes of nanny state pushers

This has nothing to do with gun ownership, and everything with the fact that they have a well-regulated militia (see my previous post regarding Switzerland) AND they have terrain that is trivial to defend. Blow a few tunnels and choke advancing troops on mountain passes - it only takes a couple hundred men to stop battalions dead in their tracks.

But the isolationism of the Swiss also leads to them being generally disliked and distrusted in Europe. Their rampant nationalism is also not appreciated by me, at least. Also, the Swiss have a direct democracy, which instills much more liberty, than the military service that is required of every Swiss individual for ages. They have yearly (bi-yearly?) exercises of their militia. How would that go over with the American public?

 

[rudeguy]

You should watch the movie Braveheart. It's not a movie about whether you will kill for your freedom, but whether you are willing to die for it.

A few French immigrants in Paris, a few years back were willing to die for their freedom. It sparked the greatest riots in the last decade in a democratic country, and prompted a state of national emergency.


Anyway, if you think people are paid to vote - run for office. The people cannot all be paid off. Found a party which stands against corruption. But don't hide scared from the government with a gun under your pillow, for when they come for you. That's not how democracy works.
If you want to do a better job than a politician, you will have to become one. That's how it works.

As for the rich ruling the nation - that's always the case. They are the most interested in a government, as the government is the guarantor of order, and without order, rich people have the most to lose. And if bribes are cheaper than taxes, well, then who's going to pay taxes?

I am William Wallace!

One of the best movies every. Except for the extreme amount of dingleberries. Could have done without that.

 

[Veliko]

orly?

So 3-5 people started the revolution? Care to name them?

Good grief, you don't even know your own nation's history.

Go look it up.

 

[Veliko]

wtf 11 pages already.... anyway in case it has not already been mentioned:

the ONE European country who did not get invaded by one side or the other during WW2 has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. This is a country who does not have a standing army but instead relies on able bodied citizens being trained as militia and keeping guns at home.

Switzerland.

Only recently has the wave of socialism started to creep in and even this bastion of liberty and freedom may soon be overwhelmed by the hordes of nanny state pushers

Other European nations who didn't get invaded during WWII are:

Ireland
Spain
Portugal
Sweden
Andorra
Lichenstein
Britain

 

[rudeguy]

Good grief, you don't even know your own nation's history.

Go look it up.

I love this argument!

You make a claim.
I ask for reference.
You insult me and fail to provide reference.

 

[WelshBloke]

wtf 11 pages already.... anyway in case it has not already been mentioned:

the ONE European country who did not get invaded by one side or the other during WW2 has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. This is a country who does not have a standing army but instead relies on able bodied citizens being trained as militia and keeping guns at home.

Switzerland.

Only recently has the wave of socialism started to creep in and even this bastion of liberty and freedom may soon be overwhelmed by the hordes of nanny state pushers

Yeah. The nazi war machine was totally put off by the fact that the Swiss had a bunch of rifles and not the fact that they needed somewhere to stash their gold.
Switzerland gave them access to a currency that was valid for international trade.
Also as Switzerland was neutral there was pretty much no upside to getting caught up in the alps for the Germans.
IIRC the plan was to divvy up Switzerland between Italy and Germany after the Axis won the war.

You should watch the movie Braveheart. It's not a movie about whether you will kill for your freedom, but whether you are willing to die for it.

Err... that movies pretty much total fiction.

 

[_Rick_]

Err... that movies pretty much total fiction.

I don't doubt that, but there's a moral story in there, which is grounded in a greater societal truth.

 

[Tango]

This has nothing to do with gun ownership, and everything with the fact that they have a well-regulated militia (see my previous post regarding Switzerland) AND they have terrain that is trivial to defend. Blow a few tunnels and choke advancing troops on mountain passes - it only takes a couple hundred men to stop battalions dead in their tracks.

The history of Switzerland in WWII has very little to do with weapons or military tactics, and very much to do with banks.

 

[rudeguy]

I don't doubt that, but there's a moral story in there, which is grounded in a greater societal truth.

If we are looking to Mel Gibson for inspiration in this thread, wouldn't "The Patriot" be a little more accurate?

 

[alkemyst]

I love this argument!

You make a claim.
I ask for reference.
You insult me and fail to provide reference.

Dude, asking to PROVE history is moronic at best.

If you have to ask these things your are not fit for the argument you are attempting to debate.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

wtf 11 pages already.... anyway in case it has not already been mentioned:

the ONE European country who did not get invaded by one side or the other during WW2 has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. This is a country who does not have a standing army but instead relies on able bodied citizens being trained as militia and keeping guns at home.

Switzerland.

Only recently has the wave of socialism started to creep in and even this bastion of liberty and freedom may soon be overwhelmed by the hordes of nanny state pushers

This is stupid, and you should feel bad for saying something so retarded.

 

[poofyhairguy]

But don't hide scared from the government with a gun under your pillow, for when they come for you. That's not how democracy works.

Hey this is a free country! I can participate in government any way I want!

 

[schneiderguy]

They have yearly (bi-yearly?) exercises of their militia. How would that go over with the American public?

Give me an M4 with a fun-switch to take home and I'd gladly attend militia training :awe:

 

[IEC]

Give me an M4 with a fun-switch to take home and I'd gladly attend militia training :awe:

You don't need "militia" training to legally possess guns with happy switches... sometimes, money and patience is all you need

 

[Fox5]

The history of Switzerland in WWII has very little to do with weapons or military tactics, and very much to do with banks.

The territory of Switzerland and their defensive fortifications would have made it a relatively expensive country to conquer. I'd imagine a blockade would have been very effective though.

 

[Tango]

The territory of Switzerland and their defensive fortifications would have made it a relatively expensive country to conquer. I'd imagine a blockade would have been very effective though.

Yeah, but it's all immaterial. No country is going to take war anywhere close Swiss banks. Ever.

 

[desura]

One word:

race.

 

[rudeguy]

One word:

race.

?

Please explain

 

[alkemyst]

One word:

race.

Are you referring to the single digit african-american populations?

I don't think a black or other non-white man is more pre-disposed to crime than another.

I think it's all environment.

 

[Aldon]

Are you referring to the single digit african-american populations?

I don't think a black or other non-white man is more pre-disposed to crime than another.

I think it's all environment.

Define environment. But wait, let me get my popcorn first.

 

[alkemyst]

Define environment. But wait, let me get my popcorn first.

Not sure WTF you are talking about or where you are trying to go.

Put any man in a situation where he is poor, hungry and without options and that man will adapt both good and bad.

 

[schneiderguy]

You don't need "militia" training to legally possess guns with happy switches... sometimes, money and patience is all you need

Money, patience, and not living in California

 

[biostud]

 

[BladeVenom]

The anti-2nd Amendment leaders are a bunch of retards, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmFEv6BHM0

 

[rommelrommel]

Thanks for that. Bringing down the gun registry is not all the NRA wants though. They represent manufacturers at their trade shows. They want guns out there in mass quantities.

NRA isn't active in Canada...