Why kids suck at math today

[AyashiKaibutsu]

In threads that center around topics of "Why kids" it's almost always the parents at the root of the problem.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

well bottom line is the asian kids rock at math.... it's always been the case

parenting is a huge factor.

 

[Rumpltzer]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
well bottom line is the asian kids rock at math.... it's always been the case

parenting is a huge factor.

Yeah, I know a lot of people who work and own English schools for kids in Taiwan. It's very typical for elementary school kids to go to regular school during the day and then they go to a music, science, math, language, whatever school after that. Most of the kids I see stay at the cram schools until about 9PM every weeknight. They get fed, teachers aids are around to help them while they do their homework and stuff like that.

If they don't go to the cram schools, they can't be competitive with their classmates. It?s an intense cycle. One of my co-workers was talking about it this weekend; Asian schools, kids, and parents are just different. The American school system has turned into a situation where every kid is a winner. In many of the Asian systems, there?s just one winner? and the rest are losers! It?s good for the kids who do well, but the ones who don?t do well are going to be left behind.

Is it better? Do the kids really know more in the Asian system? Does it turn them into robots? Do the kids miss out on a childhood? Does that matter? I think it's up to the parents.


A lot of the Chinese and Indian students that I saw in grad school could memorize and regurgitate like robots. When you put them into the lab or into an environment where they need to express themselves, make decisions, think creatively or have a little common sense, a lot of them would fail epically. Keep in mind that most of my experience is with engineers, materials and physics people so it might just be the nature of the people in those majors.



Two final points:

1) Kids are what their parent make them.

2) Girls can't do math. :evil:

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
I was just helping my daughter with pre-algebra, and realized she doesn't have her multiplication tables memorized. They allow kids to use calculators for everything now, so they don't have to memorize these things. When asked to multiply 7x6, she went "uhhhhhhhh....." and had to write it out.

When "I" was a kid, we had cool gadgets like The Little Professor to make sure that stuff was drilled into our heads. Today's kids don't have cool toys like this, and I think it's hurting them.

The day I got a 10/10 on level 4 division on that thing, I got all excited and showed my mom and dad my score, and they got me ice cream

Looks like you might need to spend some time with your kid and parent.

 

[Kirby]

my dad made me memorize mult tables when i too young to know what they even meant. he said he just wanted to impress the relatives. :laugh:

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Rumpltzer

Originally posted by: DLeRium
well bottom line is the asian kids rock at math.... it's always been the case

parenting is a huge factor.

Yeah, I know a lot of people who work and own English schools for kids in Taiwan. It's very typical for elementary school kids to go to regular school during the day and then they go to a music, science, math, language, whatever school after that. Most of the kids I see stay at the cram schools until about 9PM every weeknight. They get fed, teachers aids are around to help them while they do their homework and stuff like that.

If they don't go to the cram schools, they can't be competitive with their classmates. It?s an intense cycle. One of my co-workers was talking about it this weekend; Asian schools, kids, and parents are just different. The American school system has turned into a situation where every kid is a winner. In many of the Asian systems, there?s just one winner? and the rest are losers! It?s good for the kids who do well, but the ones who don?t do well are going to be left behind.

Is it better? Do the kids really know more in the Asian system? Does it turn them into robots? Do the kids miss out on a childhood? Does that matter? I think it's up to the parents.


A lot of the Chinese and Indian students that I saw in grad school could memorize and regurgitate like robots. When you put them into the lab or into an environment where they need to express themselves, make decisions, think creatively or have a little common sense, a lot of them would fail epically. Keep in mind that most of my experience is with engineers, materials and physics people so it might just be the nature of the people in those majors.



Two final points:

1) Kids are what their parent make them.

2) Girls can't do math. :evil:

Cram school is a little... excessive you know? I'd say a little mix and match between the two would be good. A lot of Asian kids in the US get their parents pushing them and so they do know a bit more in math, science, reading, etc. This is why the stand out in the US public school system. That's how I was raised. Top marks across the board. But you never want to get too aggressive and turn your kid into a nerd, a robot, and someone who misses out on childhood.

But if you just let your kids go at the pace of our public school system.... no way are you going to succeed.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Thank you for proving my point. Students today are "too stupid" to be able to instantly see that it's 34 * 10. It's just a skill that they no longer develop. In my example, the odds of an even semi-capable math student screwing up by hitting the wrong button accidentally on a calculator are much greater than the odds of a semi-capable math student screwing up 34 * 10. I wasn't talking about numbers that don't work out nicely - I gave an example that was insanely simple to do mental arithmetic on. Yet, you failed to realize it. See what I mean? You apparently haven't developed the ability to mentally rearrange problems & look for simpler methods of solving that problem. And while "it's just arithmetic, what difference does it make" - it's a excellent example of how commutative and associative properties can be used to help solve a problem. Once you get to more advanced mathematics - the types that are necessary for success in fields such as engineering, lack of proficiency with such basic skills is a huge handicap.

*shrug* I just got finished going through the public education system and the first thing I did was multiply the 2 * 5, then by the 34. You can't generalize that all students today don't know how to do mental math. A significant portion of them? Probably. But somehow taking regular public school classes I learned how to do mental math so I would expect some of my peers could do the same.

I never did use the word all. But, it's far from an insignificant number, the number of students who faced with that problem who will automatically reach for a calculator without pausing even for a moment to think.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Thank you for proving my point. Students today are "too stupid" to be able to instantly see that it's 34 * 10. It's just a skill that they no longer develop. In my example, the odds of an even semi-capable math student screwing up by hitting the wrong button accidentally on a calculator are much greater than the odds of a semi-capable math student screwing up 34 * 10. I wasn't talking about numbers that don't work out nicely - I gave an example that was insanely simple to do mental arithmetic on. Yet, you failed to realize it. See what I mean? You apparently haven't developed the ability to mentally rearrange problems & look for simpler methods of solving that problem. And while "it's just arithmetic, what difference does it make" - it's a excellent example of how commutative and associative properties can be used to help solve a problem. Once you get to more advanced mathematics - the types that are necessary for success in fields such as engineering, lack of proficiency with such basic skills is a huge handicap.

*shrug* I just got finished going through the public education system and the first thing I did was multiply the 2 * 5, then by the 34. You can't generalize that all students today don't know how to do mental math. A significant portion of them? Probably. But somehow taking regular public school classes I learned how to do mental math so I would expect some of my peers could do the same.

WHY THE FUCK did you do 2*5 to get 10 when 10 was given to you?

 

[hiromizu]

I wonder why 12x12 is the magical end of the memorization table. I mean what about 13x13? or 12x14? Anyway I think it's important to know basic math and basic grammer.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: hiromizu
I wonder why 12x12 is the magical end of the memorization table. I mean what about 13x13? or 12x14? Anyway I think it's important to know basic math and basic grammer.

:laugh:

 

[Rumpltzer]

Originally posted by: nkgreen
my dad made me memorize mult tables when i too young to know what they even meant. he said he just wanted to impress the relatives. :laugh:

My dad taught me to answer, "does a bear shit in the woods?" to impress the relatives.



I survived despite my parents and attending DoD and American public school systems. I consider it a fluke but not a singularity.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: hiromizu
I wonder why 12x12 is the magical end of the memorization table. I mean what about 13x13? or 12x14? Anyway I think it's important to know basic math and basic grammer.

:laugh:

QFT...12 x 12 was always printed even back in the 70's, but I learned to 16 x 16 for some reason.

 

[sciwizam]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: hiromizu
I wonder why 12x12 is the magical end of the memorization table. I mean what about 13x13? or 12x14? Anyway I think it's important to know basic math and basic grammer.

:laugh:

QFT...12 x 12 was always printed even back in the 70's, but I learned to 16 x 16 for some reason.

Hexadecimals, represent!

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Thank you for proving my point. Students today are "too stupid" to be able to instantly see that it's 34 * 10. It's just a skill that they no longer develop. In my example, the odds of an even semi-capable math student screwing up by hitting the wrong button accidentally on a calculator are much greater than the odds of a semi-capable math student screwing up 34 * 10. I wasn't talking about numbers that don't work out nicely - I gave an example that was insanely simple to do mental arithmetic on. Yet, you failed to realize it. See what I mean? You apparently haven't developed the ability to mentally rearrange problems & look for simpler methods of solving that problem. And while "it's just arithmetic, what difference does it make" - it's a excellent example of how commutative and associative properties can be used to help solve a problem. Once you get to more advanced mathematics - the types that are necessary for success in fields such as engineering, lack of proficiency with such basic skills is a huge handicap.

*shrug* I just got finished going through the public education system and the first thing I did was multiply the 2 * 5, then by the 34. You can't generalize that all students today don't know how to do mental math. A significant portion of them? Probably. But somehow taking regular public school classes I learned how to do mental math so I would expect some of my peers could do the same.

WHY THE FUCK did you do 2*5 to get 10 when 10 was given to you?

Because if you had read the thread, you'd realize that we were trimming the nested quotes.

 

[Chaotic42]

Just the other day I had a 50-year old cashier at the NASA cafeteria give me back $5.81 from a $10 for a $3.81 breakfast when their computers went down.

 

[thegimp03]

I learned all those tables by use of flashcards. My parents use to test me on them constantly.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: Fritzo
I was just helping my daughter with pre-algebra, and realized she doesn't have her multiplication tables memorized. They allow kids to use calculators for everything now, so they don't have to memorize these things. When asked to multiply 7x6, she went "uhhhhhhhh....." and had to write it out.

When "I" was a kid, we had cool gadgets like The Little Professor to make sure that stuff was drilled into our heads. Today's kids don't have cool toys like this, and I think it's hurting them.

The day I got a 10/10 on level 4 division on that thing, I got all excited and showed my mom and dad my score, and they got me ice cream

Looks like you might need to spend some time with your kid and parent.

Wow, thank you for that advice Dr. Phil.

 

[jai6638]

lol. I'm 19 and we had to recite multiplication tables till 15 every day during math class until 3rd grade and no calculators allowed... May god bless the indian education system!

 

[videogames101]

35*35=?

I can do this easy, most I doubt 95% of teens my age (17) need a calculator. It's not that I'm really smart, it's just how you go about it.

30*35+5*35=? not exactly easy yet

3*10*35+5*35=? a ten!

3*350+5*35=? hundreds, no problem!

1050+5*35=? hmmm

1050+5*30+5*5=? yay, tens and squares!

1050+150+25=? addition, do it

1225=1225 done! maybe takes 10 seconds....


Obviously, you can do that kind of stuff really fast in your head if you practice, so I agree it's all about find ways to work smarter, not harder, when doing math. Most kids just aren't taught tricks like that. Calculators need to be far more restricted in their use up until trig and calc, where it's just dumb not to use a calculator.

 

[Kelemvor]

That's why everyone should be using NEW MATH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRiTzrIS5fo

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: videogames101
35*35=?

I can do this easy, most I doubt 95% of teens my age (17) need a calculator. It's not that I'm really smart, it's just how you go about it.

I'm very skeptical about that.

Besides, I like:

30*30=900
5*30+5*30 = 300
5*5=25
1225

 

[Cheeseplug]

I agree with whoever said it was because they are teaching math by rote. My dad is a Ph.D in math, and when I was in sixth grade and had trouble with math class he asked me to show him what they taught us to do. He was like, "What the fuck is this bullshit" and took a huge dump all over the school district.

Formal logic for the win.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: videogames101
35*35=?

I can do this easy, most I doubt 95% of teens my age (17) need a calculator. It's not that I'm really smart, it's just how you go about it.

I'm very skeptical about that.

Besides, I like:

30*30=900
5*30+5*30 = 300
5*5=25
1225

(30+5)(30+5) = 30*30 + 5*30*2 + 5*5

:thumbsup:

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Arithmetic != maths.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Just the other day I had a 50-year old cashier at the NASA cafeteria give me back $5.81 from a $10 for a $3.81 breakfast when their computers went down.

I hope you mean "attempted to give me back only..."