Why Linux?

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Flatline
I have to say that I am consistently amused by the "RedHat, Mandrake, and SuSE are too bloated" arguments...I'm not sure about SuSE, but RedHat and Mandrake both have "custom" installation options that allow you to make a decision on every individual package and whether to install it. The minimal install option for RedHat is friggin' tiny, and the "server" install is also pretty small.

That said, I use Debian quite a bit and absolutely adore it. Slackware is also quite nice.

As for reasons for Linux use, I think that there have been many good ones raised already in this thread; my primary reason is that I agree with the philosophy behind the Open Source movement.

The Resion they say it is bloated is not because of the packages you have to install, But the kernel that is installed. If you get the source for the kernel in those systems, and do a make menuconfig, you will see that every option imagionable is selected in the kernel and built right into the kernel. This is why they are bloated, they do this so that more and more people will be able to use the OS without running into hardware problems (because it is all built in). Oh, and a good here is why you should use linux (this is a flash File)

Uhmm this is just wrong.
Take a look at the default config file (/usr/src/linux-2.4/configs/kernel-2.4.18-i686.config on my RedHat 8 box) Everything is built as a module.

Out of 2052 lines in the file, 1325 contain an '=', ie. set a parameter. Of those,

870 contain '=m' meaning build this parameter as a module.
42 contain '=[0123456789]' ... ie. set a numeric parameter
5 assign a path or other alphanumeric string

Just 407 assignments contain '=y'
Many kernel parameters are not modular, so there may be some "bloat" here. Figuring out which ones might be considered bloat is left as an exercise for the reader. But your argument that "every option imagionable is selected in the kernel and built right into the kernel." is clearly crap.

 

[PhoenixOfWater]

"Why Linux?"

Why not

 

[Cogman]

Wooops. Sorry, what I ment to say was everything was built with the kernel (I was refering to modules as part of the kernel). ergeorge you are right. what I ment was that you dont just get the module for your one network card, but the modules for every network card that is in the linux kernel. Where as if you build the kernel yourself, you only get the drivers you need. that is what I ment by the bloat. (and yes I did just check with my mandrake system, and yes I do have every module under the sun with this system.)

 

[Nothinman]

what I ment was that you dont just get the module for your one network card, but the modules for every network card that is in the linux kernel. Where as if you build the kernel yourself, you only get the drivers you need.

And the only difference is a little disk space, built modules that aren't loaded don't take any memory or CPU time.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

what I ment was that you dont just get the module for your one network card, but the modules for every network card that is in the linux kernel. Where as if you build the kernel yourself, you only get the drivers you need.

And the only difference is a little disk space, built modules that aren't loaded don't take any memory or CPU time.

And when you add new hardware, it just works, with a minimum of additional work because the driver is already there.

 

[Drift3r]

To those who say RPM is no good and thus Mandrake is no good....well then apparently you have never setup urpmi and setup ftp sources. URPMI and texstar and other urpmi sites make all the RPM hell all go away like a bad dream.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I use it for several reasons, though I could apply those same reasons to BSD

1. Its great for running server aps (apache, postgresql)
2. NAT
3. I like the network tools that I can use with linux
4. I love the eyecandy of KDE3.1
5. Every now and again i may have the urge to write a small script or program, linux is a great development platform
5. I like IRC, I run an eggdrop, need a stable shell.
6. I do not like any windows IRC clients, god knows I have tried them all, eventually i found BitchX and I have been attached to it ever since. (though I heard they came out with a windows version a couple years ago)
7. Vim ... wayyyyyy better than notepad, or any other windows editor
8. Its fun to play with The Gimp (kinda like Photoshop, IMO just as good, better in some ways)
9. Its nice to have all that stuff up and running on another monitor so that when I am gaming, or waiting for maps to load or stuff, that I can just use the other KB/mouse in linux.

there are many other reasons that i like it ... legal free software, limitless configuration options, able to get more done with less PC than windows, Openoffice.org is capable of just about everything MS Office can do, without as much bloat, as well as free.

I don't think I could live without linux at this point.
I also don't think I could live without Windows either though ... At least not until has much much better gaming support

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

(BurnItDwn: irssi is WAY better than bitchx )

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

what I ment was that you dont just get the module for your one network card, but the modules for every network card that is in the linux kernel. Where as if you build the kernel yourself, you only get the drivers you need.

And the only difference is a little disk space, built modules that aren't loaded don't take any memory or CPU time.

For most modules that is true, but occasionally you have to have features built into the kernel first in order to support the modules. Take scsi support for instance, you have to have some part of the scsi driver built into the kernel beforehand before you can make use of it, so eliminating it will save you some space in RAM and some cpu time... of course the that's about .001 percent of RAM and about .0001 percent of cpu time you save, so it's not worth doing unless you have other reasons to re-compile the kernel like updating the lm_sensors patch into the kernel source code tree or other tweaks or need a very small kernel for a special purpose like embeded appliance or absolute maximum performance/stability. Plus if you do that (eliminate scsi support) you won't be able to burn CD's even with a ide cdrom drive anyways, so usually there is no real point.

 

[Nothinman]

Take scsi support for instance, you have to have some part of the scsi driver built into the kernel beforehand before you can make use of it, so eliminating it will save you some space in RAM and some cpu time...

Nope. Just like IDE, the core SCSI system can be completely modular, but you probably need it anyway for cd burning.

 

[CTho9305]

I like being able to easily find an app to do anything I want in windows. I like not having to wait for compiles in windows. I like not worrying about library versions in windows. It makes a great desktop, and a decent server.

I like apt-get in linux. I like the customizability of linux. It makes a great toy, a great server, and a crappy desktop.

 

[Nothinman]

I like not having to wait for compiles in windows.

Lately I've been compiling and running more Open Source software on Windows than closed software, because there aren't decent alternatives to things like mplayer. BTW mplayer compiles in cygwin and works pretty well right now.

I like not worrying about library versions in windows.

Now that's a lie. Even with WFP things get f'd up with different versions of MFC.dll and the like. And the best part is it's a lot harder to debug in Windows. We once had a handfull of machines with VisualStudio 6 on them that when they produced 'release' builds of even the example app, the app would crash and we couldn't figure out what component on the systems was f'd up.

I like being able to easily find an app to do anything I want in windows.

I usually have a harder time finding apps for Windows, atleast free ones. I can't think of a single thing that I can't find a free piece of software to do in Linux.

It makes a great toy, a great server, and a crappy desktop.

Funny, it's made a great desktop for me for ~4 years and counting.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Gentoo is fast and fairly easy to set up as long as you follow the directions.
Redhat, mandrake, etc are crap. Use them for a few days to learn what makes an OS suck.

(I'm a Gentoo zealot, but you might have figured that out by now.)
Debian isn't bad either, btw.

Damn. I've been using RedHat 7.3 for months now, and I still haven't figured out what makes an OS suck. I don't have to wait hours for the system to compile. It's fairly polished. I can get corporate support if I needed it. What the hell am I thinking? I guess I should stop getting work done, format, compile, compile, compile, compile, compile (if I didn't have an "ok" I would throw in another dozen compiles), and then start to install the software I want, which of course involves more compiling.

 

[Flatline]

n0c, you're not saying that you're impatient surely? I mean, who doesn't have a week to get a usable system up and running?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Flatline
n0c, you're not saying that you're impatient surely? I mean, who doesn't have a week to get a usable system up and running?

Someone with a job

 

[NuclearFusi0n]

The longest compile I've done is ~12 hours for KDE. Why does everybody think it takes a week to compile stuff? Mozilla Firebird was a few hours, but you can snag a binary package of that...OpenOffice is huge, but again, there are binaries available

You can have a fully functional system in one night's sleep.

 

[NuclearFusi0n]

Anyways I bet Redhat 7.3 is better than the version I used, 9 I believe.

Bloated POS.

(I just like getting down in the nitty gritty and doing stuff myself, which Gentoo is good for. )

 

[Flatline]

Or in under 20 minutes...

 

[Flatline]

so is slack and debian; for that matter, do a minimal install of redhat or mandrake and you can still compile all the goodies yourself

Redhat and mandrake are only bloated if you just do the default workstation install.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
The longest compile I've done is ~12 hours for KDE. Why does everybody think it takes a week to compile stuff? Mozilla Firebird was a few hours, but you can snag a binary package of that...OpenOffice is huge, but again, there are binaries available

You can have a fully functional system in one night's sleep.

I'll try it this weekend on one of my sparcs. We can see how long it takes a sparcstation 10 with a 36mhz sparc4m processor and 32 mB of ram to get through an entire Gentoo install. It takes 30 min to install OpenBSD.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Anyways I bet Redhat 7.3 is better than the version I used, 9 I believe.

Bloated POS.

(I just like getting down in the nitty gritty and doing stuff myself, which Gentoo is good for. )

Ever hear of leprosy? That is what I equate RH .0 releases to.

 

[Flatline]

Actually, I would equate them more with smallpox...festering, pus-filled sores.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Flatline
Actually, I would equate them more with smallpox...festering, pus-filled sores.

I think it kind of eats away the body, kind of like the Microsoft Registry

 

[Flatline]

Hmmm...I think we each have valid points.

 

[chsh1ca]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

It makes a great toy, a great server, and a crappy desktop.

Funny, it's made a great desktop for me for ~4 years and counting.

Ditto.

In fact, ever since Bioware released NWN for linux, I've only rebooted on the occasions where I've wanted to play UT online, and that because there are no drivers (or I couldn't find them) for my Nostromo N50 Speedpad. If there were, I would probably rethink my decision to keep a windows partition at all.