Why Linux?

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: gsellis
Link to Microsoft's Vista giveaway?

You got me there. No way to dispute that logic. [/quote]
I hit the freaking return key opening quote... errr... reply is now above.

 

[gsellis]

Repostage... I need a new internet connection....

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: gsellis
I hit the freaking return key opening quote... errr... reply is now above.

I figured it would pop up there eventually.

CTP man...

It seems to require a login, and I don't feel like signing up for anything. Plus, the line Welcome to Microsoft Connect, the new product development collaboration site at Microsoft. makes me think it isn't final release software they want to to connect to.

 

[nweaver]

Installing apps: if you think Synaptic is too hard, then you must be on crack. Synaptic makes things sooooooo easy.

File structure: Linux makes sense. You mount things in your tree, you don't assign it a letter. after using it for a few weeks, I quickly saw the advantages to the file structure.

Linspire/Lindows: Don't judge Linux based on that steaming pile of poo. It's like me saying "Yep, tried windows 95, it sucked and crashed, so windows must suck".

I use linux because I'm lazy. I would rather spend the time to set up a machine correctly the first time, and then leave it alone to do it's job forever, then to have to fight little things all the time.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: nweaver
File structure: Linux makes sense. You mount things in your tree, you don't assign it a letter. after using it for a few weeks, I quickly saw the advantages to the file structure.

Linspire/Lindows: Don't judge Linux based on that steaming pile of poo. It's like me saying "Yep, tried windows 95, it sucked and crashed, so windows must suck".

Alphabet drives annoy me too. Unfortunately, the masses are now use to them, flawed as it is. I like the file structure a bit too, but then again, first computer was an Apple IIe.

Lindows was not poo when I was running. Freaking easy to install and much quicker than any MS OS I have used (I am an unattended installation specialist). The install was easier than some of the stuff in Windows package. It had 0 issues and the desktop was 100% usuable without directions. That has been part of the problem with some of the earlier Red Hats I messed with. The "I cannot give this to my mom as my phone bill will kill me" scenario was in my head then. Mom still has issues with the Windows interface, so it makes me shudder to give her anything else, including Vista.

For me, speciality hardware and apps just make it impossible to use any of the distillations of Linux everyday. There is one good video editor and what I use is better. I also use a commercial animation package (supports Mac and Win32). And I can't live without my COD I also have an HP PhotoSmart scanner that there is no software for or a driver. At work, we have 12000 cards (that we are trying to replace) that will need a driver along with about 5000 touchscreens.

And for the record, OS/2 ROCKS (well OK, the shell wasn't multi-thread well, but still...) To this day, when I am tired, I right-click on the desktop to shutdown.

 

[nweaver]

Lindows/linspire caters to noobs (not a bad thing) but dumps them to a GUI desktop as root without asking for a password. This is bad, it's kinda like windows dumping people as admin by default (which it sounds like is getting fixed in vista)

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: nweaver
Lindows/linspire caters to noobs (not a bad thing) but dumps them to a GUI desktop as root without asking for a password. This is bad, it's kinda like windows dumping people as admin by default (which it sounds like is getting fixed in vista)

In my short experience with Vista I saw a difference but it was just a matter of 'Authorize' or 'Deny' when you tried to do something of the administrative nature. Wish Vista ran better on my system. I hope the next CTP is a better fit.

 

[narutofan36]

almost no virus, and free

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: stash
Can't believe I'm doing this...

Have you ever looked inside C:\WINDOWS and C:\WINDOWS\System32? It's a complete mess in there. You have both executables and libraries jammed inside the same folder along with seemingly random bitmaps of wallpapers and screensavers.

So? Users have no need to mess around in there.

Users should never need to go anywhere but documents and settings in windows. Users should never need to go outside of /home/user in linux. Admins and developers do though, and we like things nice neat and easy to find. Just like the unix file system. Where will I find libs? well in /lib. Its simple and it makes sense. Where will I find my windows programs? Well in C:\ C:\program files C:\developer_name\ C:\publisher\developer\ maybe I have 2 drivers so I put it on D:\ or maybe I didn't have write permissions and put it in C:\documents and settings. The list goes on. Linux package managers make it easy to install apps so this should not be a problem. Plus having a single filesystem means you dont have to worry if /usr/local gets to big. YOu can buy a new drive, and migrate /usr/local to a new drive. Try doing that with windows. It is possible (you can mount drives inside directorys with ntfs. But it never seems to work right.

If there was 3 things I could say linux does better over windows. It would be
1) File System
2) File permissions
3) User model.

I really dont care about open source all that much (although it is great). Apps are apps. UI's are UI's. But those things make linux really great. A 4th option would be shell languages.

 

[stash]

Where will I find my windows programs? Well in C:\ C:\program files C:\developer_name\ C:\publisher\developer\

Apps like these are not following Windows Logo guidelines. Usually if they aren't following the file location guidelines, they don't work properly with least privilege If it concerns you, don't use apps that suck.

Is there anything keeping me from writing an app that doesn't put libs in /lib, etc? (That's an honest question)

 

[sigs3gv]

Originally posted by: stash

Where will I find my windows programs? Well in C:\ C:\program files C:\developer_name\ C:\publisher\developer\

Apps like these are not following Windows Logo guidelines. Usually if they aren't following the file location guidelines, they don't work properly with least privilege If it concerns you, don't use apps that suck.

Is there anything keeping me from writing an app that doesn't put libs in /lib, etc? (That's an honest question)

AFAIK, it kind of matters because if the library is put in a place without mention in ld.so.conf, the library will not be recognized.

 

[nweaver]

Most package managment stuff requires some things, such as man pages and files put in a specific location

 

[rbrandon]

Originally posted by: Chosonman

Originally posted by: rbrandon

troll much?

This is simply an idiotic statement. If you had any real insite you would have something smart to say rather than a smart ass response.

and everything you spew is fact. i hink you need to take the penguins dick outta your mouth

 

[rbrandon]

Originally posted by: Chosonman

Originally posted by: gsellis
No, his insight is clear. This is trollish.

Answer me this. Have you installed and used the latest version of Ubuntu, Fedora Core, or Suse? No? I thought so.

I dual boot between windows and debian, as a matter of fact. so, i ask again, troll much?

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: stash

Where will I find my windows programs? Well in C:\ C:\program files C:\developer_name\ C:\publisher\developer\

Apps like these are not following Windows Logo guidelines. Usually if they aren't following the file location guidelines, they don't work properly with least privilege If it concerns you, don't use apps that suck.

Is there anything keeping me from writing an app that doesn't put libs in /lib, etc? (That's an honest question)

Usually it's configurable by the distro people or by the end user if they compile from source code. Usually application developers will by default install applications with the install directories in the /usr/local/ directory. Distros when they package it up they will make sure that it works well into their overall setup.

Most do it with /usr/lib/, usr/bin, /usr/progname and so on and so forth. Some distros do very weird things though.

If your making closed source software then distros won't be able to adapt it to their specifics.

Most of the time, I think, for those situations with very complex applications a application designer will make a subdirectory for all their stuff and then when the user runs the application it's not actually the binary they are executing directly, but a script that sets up various enviromental variables, setups the libraries, and such for that application to use then executes the actual application binary. Usually this works out well.

Right now you have people (like the folks belonging to OSDL) working on Linux standards like the LSB to reduce the guesswork between applications developers, distro makers, and the end users. Make it easier to figure out what dependancies are expect to be there, what to do with menu entries, user preferences, desktop integration and so on and so forth. So the whole thing is a little bit up in the air.

 

[bersl2]

So I lied. I had to look.

It's not so much a flamewar but rather a trainwreck of a thread, and one that still has momentum. Ouch.

'K, bailing again...

 

[lxskllr]

I tried Ubuntu recently but it wouldn't recognize the modem in my laptop so I had to ditch it. I can't use an os that won't connect to the internet.

Also, using the command line sucks in this day of mile long file names. I had no problems in the old dos 8.3 file name system, but I'm not a typeist and trying to deal with long directory structures and huge file names was too much.

 

[Chosonman]

Originally posted by: rbrandon

Originally posted by: Chosonman

Originally posted by: gsellis
No, his insight is clear. This is trollish.

Answer me this. Have you installed and used the latest version of Ubuntu, Fedora Core, or Suse? No? I thought so.

I dual boot between windows and debian, as a matter of fact. so, i ask again, troll much?

You made me tremble for a second when you said that.... not LoL :laugh:

Let's see... what would trolling be? Entering a thread and writing useless and derogatory comments to inflame a response. The way I see it, you're really the troll.

 

[Nothinman]

Is there anything keeping me from writing an app that doesn't put libs in /lib, etc? (That's an honest question)

Other than the fact that everyone will laugh at you? No.

Most package managment stuff requires some things, such as man pages and files put in a specific location

The package management can't enforce such things, it doesn't know any policy about what goes where. But what keeps Debian in line is the fact that ll packages must meet certain guideilnes and if those aren't met then bugs are filed and the problems are resolved or the package is removed.

I tried Ubuntu recently but it wouldn't recognize the modem in my laptop so I had to ditch it. I can't use an os that won't connect to the internet.

Email the manufacturer of your modem and thank them for providing a Winmodem and no docs or drivers for non-Windows OSes.

Also, using the command line sucks in this day of mile long file names. I had no problems in the old dos 8.3 file name system, but I'm not a typeist and trying to deal with long directory structures and huge file names was too much.

That's what tab-completion is for, even cmd on Windows supports it.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: lxskllr
I tried Ubuntu recently but it wouldn't recognize the modem in my laptop so I had to ditch it. I can't use an os that won't connect to the internet.

Also, using the command line sucks in this day of mile long file names. I had no problems in the old dos 8.3 file name system, but I'm not a typeist and trying to deal with long directory structures and huge file names was too much.

Your new friends: autocomplete, grep
(I don't know jack about regular expressions--I use grep with very simple literal string matching)

...and don't complain about Linux and file names just yet!

/home/username/mylongisoinatarredbzip2file
or
~/mylongisoinatarredbzip2file

vs.

C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents\mylongisoinatarredbzip2file

Oh, yeah, spaces, too. The command-line is handy in Windows, too, but it has the mile long file names ...

Finally, note you can use Autocomplete in cmd.exe in Windows, and you can get grep for Windows.

 

[Seeruk]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Microsoft is the future.
Microsoft isnt free and will be forever.
Microsoft is supported by the open source community and the Microsoft communities all over the web
Microsoft is secure.
Microsoft is not Linux

Microsoft is the future.
In the server market continues to outpace Linux in server deployments. The desktop arena continues to see spectacular growth, especially with the exploding popularity of Windows XP in just the past year and a half and Vista in the near future. Microsoft's CE is already used as the main operating system in just about every devices including PDA's, Cell phones, pocket PC's, notebooks and desktops, and media centers.

Microsoft isn't free and never will be.
For only £365 you have all of the MS Software Library sent to you every single month on DVD or CD. As well as software their entire support database is indexed and betas , previews and utilities. This all for less than the cost of the very specific hardware I had to buy to get a semi-usable Linux desktop the last time I built one.

Microsoft is supported by the open source community.
Microsoft is supported by millions and millions of individuals who are committed to and skilled in their work. Patches and security updates for serious flaws are released on a zero day basis and service packs regularly roll up all these changes as well as providing additional functionality and enhancements.

Microsoft is secure.
As of right now there are more virus written for Windows than any other operating system yet as long as users have a clue-stick to beat themselves with they will not be affected. And with help of the Microsoft community, patches and fixes for future virus for Microsoft can be resolved as soon as they are written. Not weeks or months.

Microsoft is not Linux.
Linux is not Microsoft. You don't need to listen to the terrible attempts at startup sounds (ubuntu?), watch the lines of green and black text as you boot, or use the Internet Explorer to view your files, or have microft software bundled with your OS. Or believe that everything a linux distro has handed you in the PC world is the way it should be. You can used tabbed folder view instead of pressing "back back back" to navigate through your folders. You can customize your splash screen to replace you Windows loading logo. You can make your OS look like a Mac if you like.

And Microsoft has always been the most supported operating system by both software and hardware companies....
Adobe has always had a Microsoft division, all hardware OEM's bundle Microsoft drivers with their products and as of now Microsoft supports the vast majority of hardware pluggins right out of the box. Believe it or not Microsoft is here to stay.

Please contribute as you wish to this thread..

Really.... truly ..... honestly I tried to walk away from this thread. But such FUD and fanboyism needs to be shown the error of it's ways

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: lxskllr
I tried Ubuntu recently but it wouldn't recognize the modem in my laptop so I had to ditch it. I can't use an os that won't connect to the internet.

Don't use winmodems.

Also, using the command line sucks in this day of mile long file names. I had no problems in the old dos 8.3 file name system, but I'm not a typeist and trying to deal with long directory structures and huge file names was too much.

tab

 

[Chosonman]

Originally posted by: Seeruk

Really.... truly ..... honestly I tried to walk away from this thread. But such FUD and fanboyism needs to be shown the error of it's ways

You work for Gates don't you?

One word tells me you are wrong about MS being the future. Vista

I think more than one person sees thing the way I do.Linux City

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: lxskllr
I tried Ubuntu recently but it wouldn't recognize the modem in my laptop so I had to ditch it. I can't use an os that won't connect to the internet.

Also, using the command line sucks in this day of mile long file names. I had no problems in the old dos 8.3 file name system, but I'm not a typeist and trying to deal with long directory structures and huge file names was too much.

Regarding long file names... Just type the first letter or so (enough so it's unique) and hit the 'Tab' key and it will fill in the rest for you. For instance, if you have the 3 files below...

longfilenamethatshardtotype
longaasdfasdfasdfasdfadf
longdfdasdfasdf

...all you'd have to type is 'longf' and hit tab to have it fill in the entire longfilenamethatshardtotype word for you.

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: lxskllr
I tried Ubuntu recently but it wouldn't recognize the modem in my laptop so I had to ditch it. I can't use an os that won't connect to the internet.

Also, using the command line sucks in this day of mile long file names. I had no problems in the old dos 8.3 file name system, but I'm not a typeist and trying to deal with long directory structures and huge file names was too much.

Your new friends: autocomplete, grep
(I don't know jack about regular expressions--I use grep with very simple literal string matching)

...and don't complain about Linux and file names just yet!

/home/username/mylongisoinatarredbzip2file
or
~/mylongisoinatarredbzip2file

vs.

C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents\mylongisoinatarredbzip2file

Oh, yeah, spaces, too. The command-line is handy in Windows, too, but it has the mile long file names ...

Finally, note you can use Autocomplete in cmd.exe in Windows, and you can get grep for Windows.

That's actually pretty interesting, thanks. I didn't know you could do that. I would have made the same complaint about Windows, but you don't really need the command line there at all, it seems to be more necessary in Linux.

As to the recommendation to not buy winmodems, you don't really have much of a choice with laptops. I could have bought a external modem so it would work, but that doesn't make much sense. I'd have an extra box and power connection to deal with, and the cost of the modem really eats into the free cost of Linux.