Why Linux?

[Chosonman]

Linux is the future.
Linux is free and will be forever.
Linux is supported by the open source community.
Linux is secure.
Linux is not Microsoft.

Linux is the future.
In the server market continues to outpace Microsoft in server deployments. The desktop arena continues to see spectacular growth, especially with the exploding popularity of Ubuntu Linux in just the past year and a half. Linux will be used as the main operating system in just about every devices including PDA's, Cell phones, pocket PC's, notebooks and desktops, and media centers.

Linux is free and will be forever.
Unlike Windows, Linux is free and under the General Public License (GPL) should remain free forever no matter how many times you install it. Windows charges for every computer and every processor their operating system is installed on. So if you replace your CPU under their licencing agreement you will have to pay for a new copy of Windows every time.

Linux is supported by the open source community.
Linux is supported by thousands and thousands of individuals who are committed to and skilled in their work. As an open source project code is updated constantly and fixes are developed quickly. No more waiting months for security patches and updates.

Linux is secure.
As of right now there are more virus written for Windows than any other operating system. And with help of the open source community, patches and fixes for future virus for Linux can be resolved as soon as they are written. Not weeks or months.

Linux is not Microsoft.
Linux is not Microsoft. You don't need to listen to the Microsoft start up theme music, watch the Microsoft logo as Windows loads, or use the Internet Explorer to view your files, or have microft software bundled with your OS. Or believe that everything Microsoft has handed you in the PC world is the way it should be. You can used tabbed folder view instead of pressing "back back back" to navigate through your folders. You can customize your splash screen to replace you Windows loading logo. You can make your OS look like a Mac if you like.

And now Linux is supported....
Adobe has created a Linux division, most hardward OEM's bundle Linux drivers with their products and as of now Ubuntu supports the vast majority of hardware pluggins right out of the box. Believe it or not Linux is here to stay.

Please contribute as you wish to this thread..

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Linux is the future.
Linux is free and will be forever.
Linux is supported by the open source community.
Linux is secure.
Linux is not Microsoft.

Linux is the future.
In the server market continues to outpace Microsoft in server deployments. The desktop arena continues to see spectacular growth, especially with the exploding popularity of Ubuntu Linux in just the past year and a half. Linux will be used as the main operating system in just about every devices including PDA's, Cell phones, pocket PC's, notebooks and desktops, and media centers.

In some cases yes, in others no. Every place I've worked at has a Windows Active Directory network and Exchange server.

Linux is free and will be forever.
Unlike Windows, Linux is free and under the General Public License (GPL) should remain free forever no matter how many times you install it. Windows charges for every computer and every processor their operating system is installed on. So if you replace your CPU under their licencing agreement you will have to pay for a new copy of Windows every time.

Not all Linux is free and Windows Retail versions can be transferred from computer to computer (single install only).

Linux is supported by the open source community.
Linux is supported by thousands and thousands of individuals who are committed to and skilled in their work. As an open source project code is updated constantly and fixes are developed quickly. No more waiting months for security patches and updates.

That's great but there's still plenty of hardware and software that does not work in Linux and does work in Windows.

Linux is secure.
As of right now there are more virus written for Windows than any other operating system. And with help of the open source community, patches and fixes for future virus for Linux can be resolved as soon as they are written. Not weeks or months.

Linux may be more secure than Windows but the simple fact is the reason Windows is so targeted is because it's *by far* the most popular. It's a simple matter of numbers.

Linux is not Microsoft.
Linux is not Microsoft. You don't need to listen to the Microsoft start up theme music, watch the Microsoft logo as Windows loads, or use the Internet Explorer to view your files, or have microft software bundled with your OS. Or believe that everything Microsoft has handed you in the PC world is the way it should be. You can used tabbed folder view instead of pressing "back back back" to navigate through your folders. You can customize your splash screen to replace you Windows loading logo. You can make your OS look like a Mac if you like.

Windows layout/sounds can be customized very easily and there's always Explorer view.

And now Linux is supported....
Adobe has created a Linux division, most hardward OEM's bundle Linux drivers with their products and as of now Ubuntu supports the vast majority of hardware pluggins right out of the box. Believe it or not Linux is here to stay.

Just having a 'Linux driver' doesn't help if you're new to Linux and your distro isn't included.

Please contribute as you wish to this thread..

Don't get me wrong, I like Linux and I'm not trying to bash it. I just think to say Linux is perfect and *the* solution for everyone today is simply false. I've only been running Ubuntu for a few months on my laptop and it's had plenty of application crashes, network hiccups, and even a few total system freezes. Under WinXP Pro that never happened. Oh, and you can play games in Windows.

 

[sourceninja]

There is no one answer to everyone's problems. If there was I would be king.

 

[Chosonman]

Originally posted by: Robor

In some cases yes, in others no. Every place I've worked at has a Windows Active Directory network and Exchange server.

As companies begin to open their eyes and realize the competetive advantage of using open source software, and increase their bottom line you will see a shift from proprietary enterprise systems like MS Exchange Server to XExchange and other more cost effective sollutions.

Not all Linux is free and Windows Retail versions can be transferred from computer to computer (single install only).

The base licence for Linux is free. So theoretically one could get the source code for Red Hat Fedora and add some code and make the same code free for everone. That is the nature of the GPL licence.

That's great but there's still plenty of hardware and software that does not work in Linux and does work in Windows.

The most recent article comparing (sourceforge.com) Windows XP vs. Ubuntu showed both supported a majority of the hardware that was tested on each machine. Ubuntu just didn't have the uncessary bloat Windows XP had and loaded faster. Any other hardware issues is a matter of the OEM realizing how much of the market they are missing by not developing Linux drivers as quickly as they should.

Linux may be more secure than Windows but the simple fact is the reason Windows is so targeted is because it's *by far* the most popular. It's a simple matter of numbers.

Still doesn't help that it takes longer for a security update to appeare for Windows than it does for open source as seen in the server world. And statistacally there is no evidence Linux is any less secure than Windows.

Windows layout/sounds can be customized very easily and there's always Explorer view.

Yes, but you are VERY limited.

 

[Presence]

These fanboy posts are always funny.

 

[Chosonman]

Originally posted by: Presence
These fanboy posts are always funny.

Why is this a fanboy post?

 

[stash]

I predict great things for this thread.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: STaSh
I predict great things for this thread.

I'm detecting sarcasm...

 

[SleepWalkerX]

I love linux, but I don't just don't see the big companies developing top rated software to embrace open-source. And I don't blame them. Its kinda hard to run a business model around letting your competition see your source code. Although you could just make closed source programs, there are soo many distributions and packages that its more complicated to maintain... I guess that's why it'd be beneficial to support something like LSB. Main thing is to look attractive to the big companies.

 

[stash]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: STaSh
I predict great things for this thread.

I'm detecting sarcasm...

Nah...

 

[ndruw]

my teacher told me a story about a research paper he had to write on the question : "why?"

i believe the correct answer applies here

Why not Linux?

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Linux is the future.
Linux is free and will be forever.
Linux is supported by the open source community.
Linux is secure.
Linux is not Microsoft.

Linux is the future.
In the server market continues to outpace Microsoft in server deployments. The desktop arena continues to see spectacular growth, especially with the exploding popularity of Ubuntu Linux in just the past year and a half. Linux will be used as the main operating system in just about every devices including PDA's, Cell phones, pocket PC's, notebooks and desktops, and media centers.

If you were a market analyst with millions of dollars riding on your predictions I might take your raving seriously. But there's lots of stupid analysts out there too.

Linux is free and will be forever.
Unlike Windows, Linux is free and under the General Public License (GPL) should remain free forever no matter how many times you install it. Windows charges for every computer and every processor their operating system is installed on. So if you replace your CPU under their licencing agreement you will have to pay for a new copy of Windows every time.

Linux is supported by the open source community.
Linux is supported by thousands and thousands of individuals who are committed to and skilled in their work. As an open source project code is updated constantly and fixes are developed quickly. No more waiting months for security patches and updates.

There are plenty of bugs in open source software that go unfixed. You're painting an awfully rosy picture.

Linux is secure.

That is an extremely ambiguous statement.

As of right now there are more virus written for Windows than any other operating system. And with help of the open source community, patches and fixes for future virus for Linux can be resolved as soon as they are written. Not weeks or months.

And that is pure flamebait. If you have some good arguments as to why this is true that we haven't already heard from redhat or heard contested by microsoft then you might have something.

Linux is not Microsoft.

Thanks Cpt Obvious!

Linux is not Microsoft. You don't need to listen to the Microsoft start up theme music, watch the Microsoft logo as Windows loads, or use the Internet Explorer to view your files, or have microft software bundled with your OS. Or believe that everything Microsoft has handed you in the PC world is the way it should be. You can used tabbed folder view instead of pressing "back back back" to navigate through your folders. You can customize your splash screen to replace you Windows loading logo. You can make your OS look like a Mac if you like.

This is the worst flamebait yet. None of this can be attributed to linux. The flexibility comes from software that happens to run on linux. Sure, what's available on linux is more wideranging than what's available on windows, but people do plenty of wacky stuff on windows too. If customizing the ui like this is so important to you, then use linux, sure, but don't bash people who are satisfied with windows.

And now Linux is supported....
Adobe has created a Linux division, most hardward OEM's bundle Linux drivers with their products and as of now Ubuntu supports the vast majority of hardware pluggins right out of the box. Believe it or not Linux is here to stay.

Nobody really wants oem bundled drivers with their hardware. We want 'em open source, in the kernel, well documented so that anybody can implement them.

Please contribute as you wish to this thread..
...
That's great but there's still plenty of hardware and software that does not work in Linux and does work in Windows.

The most recent article comparing (sourceforge.com) Windows XP vs. Ubuntu showed both supported a majority of the hardware that was tested on each machine.

Haven't read it, but I'm not about to accept that linux has good enough hardware support just because one review had a high success rate.

Ubuntu just didn't have the uncessary bloat Windows XP had and loaded faster.

For crap's sake, why do you have to go making statements like that in a thread like this? Your statement of uncessary (sic) is about as ambiguous as your statement about security.

Any other hardware issues is a matter of the OEM realizing how much of the market they are missing by not developing Linux drivers as quickly as they should.

Says you. I'm sure they have market analysts that know exactly how much of the market they are missing.

I'm flaming a lot more here than I like to, but the last thing the linux community needs is fanboys talking trash like this.

 

[bersl2]

I'm bailing on this thread. It's going to flash-over at any moment. But before I do that...

Chosonman: Hopefully, this will be a learning experience for you about how picking fights is usually not a good idea. You might even learn a thing or two.

[jumps through the window]

 

[stash]

My one contribution to this thread: I really don't care a whit what my splash screen looks like, regardless of OS.

 

[loup garou]

:laugh:

 

[Presence]

Linux is not Microsoft. Linux is not Microsoft. You don't need to listen to the Microsoft start up theme music, watch the Microsoft logo as Windows loads, or use the Internet Explorer to view your files, or have microft software bundled with your OS. Or believe that everything Microsoft has handed you in the PC world is the way it should be. You can used tabbed folder view instead of pressing "back back back" to navigate through your folders. You can customize your splash screen to replace you Windows loading logo. You can make your OS look like a Mac if you like.

This is by far the best reason to switch to Linux. Pressing "back back back" just plain sucks. lol

 

[TrevorRC]

Like to issue a correction.

Microsoft does not charge per-CPU (unless you run more than 2)
Otherwise, Opty's wouldn't be quite so popular
--T

 

[Nothinman]

As companies begin to open their eyes and realize the competetive advantage of using open source software, and increase their bottom line you will see a shift from proprietary enterprise systems like MS Exchange Server to XExchange and other more cost effective sollutions.

Sadly there's no OSS replacement for Exchange right now. Sure you can cobble something together with seperate IMAP, LDAP, iCal, etc servers but it'll probably suck. Luckily this is just about the only area that MS has a real technical advantage and with Novell working hard on desktop Linux it might not be long before GroupWise doesn't suck.

Linux may be more secure than Windows but the simple fact is the reason Windows is so targeted is because it's *by far* the most popular. It's a simple matter of numbers.

The problem is that your 'simple fact' is completely wrong. Apache has over 3x the web server marketshare that IIS does and yet IIS has a much worse security track.

That's great but there's still plenty of hardware and software that does not work in Linux and does work in Windows.

And there's plenty of drivers that are utter crap on Windows and work perfectly well on Linux. And most of the time, if the hardware doesn't have Linux drivers it's probably crap and not worth buying anyway.

Windows layout/sounds can be customized very easily and there's always Explorer view.

I think his point was that you need something like ThemeXP to be able to use 3rd party themes on XP, which is pretty much BS.

Just having a 'Linux driver' doesn't help if you're new to Linux and your distro isn't included.

Just having a Windows driver doesn't help if you're not good with Windows either, just about everyone I know with a computer calls their more knowledgable friends whenever they buy something because they're too scared to install it themselves regardless of OS.

 

[sigs3gv]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

As companies begin to open their eyes and realize the competetive advantage of using open source software, and increase their bottom line you will see a shift from proprietary enterprise systems like MS Exchange Server to XExchange and other more cost effective sollutions.

Sadly there's no OSS replacement for Exchange right now. Sure you can cobble something together with seperate IMAP, LDAP, iCal, etc servers but it'll probably suck. Luckily this is just about the only area that MS has a real technical advantage and with Novell working hard on desktop Linux it might not be long before GroupWise doesn't suck.

Linux may be more secure than Windows but the simple fact is the reason Windows is so targeted is because it's *by far* the most popular. It's a simple matter of numbers.

The problem is that your 'simple fact' is completely wrong. Apache has over 3x the web server marketshare that IIS does and yet IIS has a much worse security track.

That's great but there's still plenty of hardware and software that does not work in Linux and does work in Windows.

And there's plenty of drivers that are utter crap on Windows and work perfectly well on Linux. And most of the time, if the hardware doesn't have Linux drivers it's probably crap and not worth buying anyway.

Windows layout/sounds can be customized very easily and there's always Explorer view.

I think his point was that you need something like ThemeXP to be able to use 3rd party themes on XP, which is pretty much BS.

Just having a 'Linux driver' doesn't help if you're new to Linux and your distro isn't included.

Just having a Windows driver doesn't help if you're not good with Windows either, just about everyone I know with a computer calls their more knowledgable friends whenever they buy something because they're too scared to install it themselves regardless of OS.

QFT

One clear example is with wireless drivers. IIRC, there are no Windows wireless drivers that support sniffing.

 

[mellowfellow0o0]

Don't get me wrong I love Linux for certain uses. It excels as a simple server, and can allow you to continue using older hardware to perfom functions you could never do with MS. Examples being web/ftp servers, NAS, and my fav though I still do not have it working right, as a PBX.

Now why Linux will not work in the home.

Installation of software is a lesson in what frustration means.
One actually has to understand how Linux works to install even simple applications.
Yes there are different schemes to help overcome this but they vary for each distribution.
That is why I believe that they include so many applications with a distribution. They know that the avg Joe won't be able to add any thing else.
Sure with Mandrake you can pay money so that you can install free applications, but that is not a real solution.
Yes, there are help files and FAQs to help one through installing each application, but most frankly suck.
Many are written for those who already have an understanding of the OS, or they say oh yeah you have to install this version of this other app first. Then you find that that app has next to no help what so ever.

Could I over come this? Yes
Could my my father/mother/grandparents/friends? For the most part no way. Even if they could, they wouldn't both. Why should they? All modern windows applications install with a few clicks of a mouse.
Linux so far as as usability goes, is in it's DOS/Win 3.1 days.

It's powerful, its customizable, it's as affordable as it can get, but until it makes program installs and unistalls a matter of point, click, click, click, it will NEVER work in the avg home.
Eliminate TAR installs. Come up with a standard application installer that works across all major distributions with no deviations, include dependencies in the installs, and the most drastic of all. Do something about the file system structure. There is a lack of standards when it comes to where to put different files during installation. It is much easier to understand "Program Files" or "Windows".

Like it or not Linux is going to have to dumb it's self down if it ever wants to reach the mass market in the home. The best solution I can see is a shell that hides all the arcane aspects and Unix heritage. Makes the file structure look simple and understandable to the barely computer literate. It would hide those options that are advanced but still make them easily uncoverable to those who desire them.

Some of this is starting and I mean just starting to form, but too much of the Linux community does not understand nor care to understand that the common person does not want to jump through hoops to use an OS. They focus on trying to make it look as much like the popular OSes as possible but don't try to make it function like them.

Like I say I do absolutely love Linux and it's power and ability to be customized so easily for older or newer hardware. Can the Linux community retain this while accomplishing the rest? I hope so. I would rather see Linux stay in it's current form than ever see it turn out like Novell. I mean they had a NOS(4.11) that screemed on a 486! It wasn't as easy to use as MS but by god it could run circles around it. It did everything MS did and did it better. Then they decided that the server need a point and click interface and an easier to user management console. They chose JAVA. WTF. The slowest and most hardware intensive programming language I have ever seen in my life.

Really they left us no choice. We could no longer use hardware cost savings as an excuse to stay with Novell. We needed the true IP support of a next gen NOS. Managment loved the $$$ savings with Novell, but once that was gone. The allure of MS was too much for them and they made us change over.

Anyway my point is Linux needs to adapt to the needs of the common Joe, to make it into the home, but it needs to do so with out losing the things that make it great. Maybe I am a a glass half full kinda guy, but I don't think that will happen.

 

[Nothinman]

Installation of software is a lesson in what frustration means.

Right, because Synaptic is so hard to use. I'd much rather download random shareware filled with spyware and install that!

Yes there are different schemes to help overcome this but they vary for each distribution.

There are differing schemes for operating a car, but people cope with that.

All modern windows applications install with a few clicks of a mouse.

And yet people still manage to do it incorrectly. There is nothing that will help those people that aren't willing to learn.

Linux so far as as usability goes, is in it's DOS/Win 3.1 days.

While I think that's a totally incorrect statement, Windows is just now catching up to Linux in the reliability department. Both systems have different focuses on their development, MS is just recently working on reliability and security and Gnome/KDE are working on usabilility now. And the best part is that MS changes their UI around with every release making their users relearn large portions of the system, so what better chance to jump ship than when Vista ships and does it all again?

It's powerful, its customizable, it's as affordable as it can get, but until it makes program installs and unistalls a matter of point, click, click, click, it will NEVER work in the avg home.
Eliminate TAR installs. Come up with a standard application installer that works across all major distributions with no deviations, include dependencies in the installs, and the most drastic of all. Do something about the file system structure. There is a lack of standards when it comes to where to put different files during installation. It is much easier to understand "Program Files" or "Windows".

Installation of software on Linux is many magnitudes simpler than it is on Windows, no one uses tarballs anymore except as a last resort. If your distribution doesn't have a piece of software packaged ask them to package it and/or ask the developer of the software to provide packages for your distribution. Do you complain about Windows because you can't install iDVD?

And the filesytem layout will not change, there's no reason a user should ever even see anything other than what's in their home directory.

Like it or not Linux is going to have to dumb it's self down if it ever wants to reach the mass market in the home. The best solution I can see is a shell that hides all the arcane aspects and Unix heritage. Makes the file structure look simple and understandable to the barely computer literate. It would hide those options that are advanced but still make them easily uncoverable to those who desire them.

You just described Gnome, have you tried it lately?

Some of this is starting and I mean just starting to form, but too much of the Linux community does not understand nor care to understand that the common person does not want to jump through hoops to use an OS. They focus on trying to make it look as much like the popular OSes as possible but don't try to make it function like them.

We don't want it to function like them, emulating the competition (if you consider it a competition) doesn't help anything. IMO most things works better on Linux than they do on Windows, sure right now some of them require a little extra work to get them going but once they're setup they run forever without any intervention.

For instance, the latest Epiphany packages include support for the Avahi ZeroConf stuff. What this means is that if a device supports ZeroConf and publishes bookmarks they'll automatically appear in Epiphany's bookmark list, does anything like that exist on Windows? How convenient would it be if you could turn on a new SoHo Router and have it's admin page automatically bookmarked for you?

Then they decided that the server need a point and click interface and an easier to user management console. They chose JAVA. WTF. The slowest and most hardware intensive programming language I have ever seen in my life.

That choice also made it so that their admin tools could be run on Linux. No, it wasn't officially supported, but it worked and was significantly faster than running them on Windows.

Really they left us no choice. We could no longer use hardware cost savings as an excuse to stay with Novell. We needed the true IP support of a next gen NOS. Managment loved the $$$ savings with Novell, but once that was gone. The allure of MS was too much for them and they made us change over.

Money savings with Novell? What crack are you smoking? NetWare itself is expensive as hell and their user licensing is comparable if not worse than that of MS but the kicker is that Novell actually enforced their licensing. If you bought 100 user licenses for your NDS tree only 100 people could login, not like Windows where the system allowed as many logins as it could handle no matter what number of licenses you told it you had. And on top of it all, the admin tools are irrelevant performance-wise, you never admin a NetWare box from it's console so the fact that X, Java, etc were on the box didn't matter one bit.

Anyway my point is Linux needs to adapt to the needs of the common Joe, to make it into the home, but it needs to do so with out losing the things that make it great. Maybe I am a a glass half full kinda guy, but I don't think that will happen.

Then help make it happen, Linux is a community effort. Sitting on the sidelines and saying "You guys need to fix this" doesn't cut it.

 

[stash]

There are differing schemes for operating a car, but people cope with that.

There it is!! The first car analogy. Well, actually it's a metaphor, but whatever.

Thread over.

 

[Nothinman]

There it is!! The first car analogy. Well, actually it's a metaphor, but whatever.

Yea, I tried to come up with something better but it's not easy. How about kitchen appliances? A lot of microwaves control panels look different!

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Linux is the future.

No, it is the past and present.
Hurd is the future. It will remain the future, too, just as it was the future when Linux started .

Linux is free and will be forever.

No, Linux is Free, and will be forever. You can pay for support and get it to cost you. They could even make it per CPU. They don't largely because they need to be cost-competitive with MS.

Linux is supported by the open source community.

Yes, and MS has no answer to that. As the businesses and little guys get along better, this will become even more of a strength (Madriva, OpenSUSE, Fedora Core).

Linux is secure.

Not compared to FreeBSD or OpenBSD...

Linux is not Microsoft.

A square is not a circle.

...Believe it or not Linux is here to stay.

Please contribute as you wish to this thread..

Linux is here to stay, but it is creeping in, one disenchanted Windows user (including network admins) or business at a time. It does not allow for a true replacement of those things created behind closed doors. This must be dealt with. It surely can be, but there is no simple and easy formula.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Why did the mods unban this guy????